Women and Minority in Geek Culture - Part the 4

[A wilding]

Maybe, but that would depend on how confident I was in my interpretation. Let's extend the example I used above, and imagine that GRRM suddenly joined a discussion on this board and declared that R+L=J is false. I would question such a statement very strongly, and if he did not follow it up with some very good explanations about what he really meant with all those passages in the series that hint at R+L=J, I would not believe him. Instead, I would draw the conclusion that he had intended R+L=J throughout the first five books and then suddenly changeed his mind. It would make me surprised, and it would make me think less of him as an author, but it wouldn't change my interpretation of what he has written.

Heh. This does and has actually happen here, because we have SSM (So Spake Martin). I have in the past tried to argue that SSM should be ignored and we should just stick to the text of the books, but have usually been outvoted.

Which leads to the related point that in those earlier days, a significant fraction of the board had met GRRM or even considered him a friend. In general an author may have a coterie of acolytes who claim privileged knowledge and hence authority in debate. It is not just the author themself who might impact a discussion.

(Sorry for threadjack.)

[Shryke]

But the playing field is rarely level anyway. Imagine a group of first time ASOIAF readers discussing Jon Snow's parentage, and then someone who has spent a decade in these forums and knows every scrap of evidence for R+L=J by heart joining the discussion. How level will that playing field be, even though the new person joining in is just another fan?

But that is a level playing field. It's just someone is playing better then someone else. But at the end of the day, neither the newb nor the veteran can claim any sort of actual authority other then that imparted by their argument.

The author, on the other hand, has implicit authority on the subject.

In that example, it's not obvious how the newcomer would be recieved. The existing group may be angry, because they wanted to puzzle things out for themselves, or happy because they got an opportunity to discuss the books with someone who had spent a lot of time thinking about the series.

Hence the need to tread lightly, as Aofie put it, in any discussion with an assymetric relationship to the topic being discussed. But the blogger in the post that sparked this conversation didn't quite seem to see it that way. From her post and the subsequent discussion, it's pretty clear that she would never welcome an author participating in the discussion, and that she thought that autors aught to understand that they were never welcome without being told, and that's the attitude I found strange.

I don't think it's strange at all. By virtue of participation, the author essentially shuts down the conversation by saying "This is what it's exactly about". Interpretation is curtailed in the face of the author's overwhelming authority on the work.

[TerraPrime]

[mod hat]

Yeah so, hmm, sorry for the thread derail. Let's get back to issues concerning women in fandoms, yes?

[/mod hat]

[karaddin]

Nice work Terra :P

Didn't post this last night as I didn't want to stifle the conversation on non gaming as soon as it started, but will now.

There was a panel at the recent PAX on actions that can be taking to improve diversity in gaming. It's a little lacking in terms of racial diversity, but that's because it seems to be more focused on gender diversity and sexuality diversity, it was set up by a bisexual woman and chaired by a trans woman. I intend to watch it again as was distracted last time, it is long (1hour) but does manage to be about what can be done to improve it, rather than a lot of what has been discussed recently which is there being proof of problems even existing.

[Sci-2]

[mod hat]

Yeah so, hmm, sorry for the thread derail. Let's get back to issues concerning women in fandoms, yes?

[/mod hat]

It's probably worth carrying over into Lit.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

And now a new video critical of Anita Sarkeesian: "Anita Sarkeesian is not a real gamer."

It seems though that the video equates her statement that she dislikes video games (with her implied meaning of 'how video games are now') as a contradiction with her claim that she's a gamer. Overall, the video again establishes a "No True Gamer" fallacy.

[TerraPrime]

And now a new video critical of Anita Sarkeesian: "Anita Sarkeesian is not a real gamer."

It seems though that the video equates her statement that she dislikes video games (with her implied meaning of 'how video games are now') as a contradiction with her claim that she's a gamer. Overall, the video again establishes a "No True Gamer" fallacy.

That's been pretty much the narrative since the beginning, right? That you can't be a gamer unless you like the games, so if you dislike many aspects of a game, then, well, you're not a gamer!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The video is self contradictory and an ad hominem attack. It explicitly says that what it does in no way invalidates Sarkeesian's critiques of the portrayal of women in games then attempts to invalidate her critiques by calling her a liar with a self serving agenda.

[thistlepong]

Wait, she didn't play videogames in grad school? Totally shocked!

I'm not. When I started crafting my thesis, I hadn't played much of anything for years.

[Sci-2]

Wait, she didn't play videogames in grad school? Totally shocked!

I'm not. When I started crafting my thesis, I hadn't played much of anything for years.

Yeah, I can go for years without gaming and then come back to it.

I think Anita's videos are likely to have a slow impact. Same with the growing consideration for treatment of, and participation by, women/minorities/LGBT/etc in gaming at game info sites.

[Guy Kilmore]

Bumming around Youtube, I stumbled across some of this guy's rants and I agree with some of the things he says. In regards to the gaming industry, I think he is dead on to something. The hostility that some gamers show to creative people who do something different prevents other creative people from participating. I mean, why would they? There are other mediums that can employ their talent.

I am sure some of you have seen this, so probably old news.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

The video is self contradictory and an ad hominem attack. It explicitly says that what it does in no way invalidates Sarkeesian's critiques of the portrayal of women in games then attempts to invalidate her critiques by calling her a liar with a self serving agenda.

Pretty much. But it seems to be the primary form of attack (apart from that on her gender, though it's intricately tied) made against her.

[Sci-2]

So This Dickwolves Thing Won't Go Away

Today, Max Temkin - one of the designers and co-founders behind the massive Cards Against Humanity - took to his blog to talk about his company's experience at this year's PAX, and how Krahulik's comments "just fucked us".

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sounds like PA needs to give Mike K a muzzle.

[TerraPrime]

Sounds like PA needs to give Mike K a muzzle.

Oh, the point where a muzzle would be useful has already been passed, and nobody collected the 200 dollars.

[Shryke]

Yeah, seriously. They've needed to shut Krahulik up for at least a decade now.

He's exactly the kind of person who should not be allowed to have a twitter account.

[thistlepong]

At this point I'm kind of hoping Jerry's sort of "could you do this without me" was almost a threat... probably not, though.

[Sci-2]

Sex Crimes, Interrogation And Nightmares – In Torment: The Case of the Drawing Girl

Not many games dare to go near the realm of sex crimes, but In Torment: The Case of the Drawing Girl does, and it handles it with respect and is able to weave it into its player-discovered mystery narrative delicately.

It’s a point-and-click investigation game in which you play a detective who must solve a crime and bring justice by locking up the criminal. There are three different stories stories to follow, and they play out the same way, and you’ll investigate the same locations, but different people. The reason for there being three is not down to dividing up difficulty, but providing darker and less gruesome crimes for you to investigate. The obvious warning is that the darkest story does involve a very gruesome sex crime.

[Lyanna Stark]

Sex Crimes, Interrogation And Nightmares – In Torment: The Case of the Drawing Girl

I downloaded it and gave it a (very very) quick whirl. Really freaky but quite nice, altho I sucked majorly at interviewing, apparently. :P Nice idea tho. Bit like a mix between TV crime dramas, cluedo, a horror story and Grim Fandango.

[Sci-2]

I downloaded it and gave it a (very very) quick whirl. Really freaky but quite nice, altho I sucked majorly at interviewing, apparently. :P Nice idea tho. Bit like a mix between TV crime dramas, cluedo, a horror story and Grim Fandango.

Hmm, sounds good. I have too many games I own that I should at least play, if not actually beat.

I wish they had a Mac version. The PC I have for gaming is pretty old and seems to have issues even with low graphic indie games.

=-=-=

Grand Titons Is An Autobiographical Action Platformer That Depicts Gender Transitioning

“An autobiographical journey of my transition as told via a dystopian platformer fantasy.”

So, Grand Titons is an action platformer in which you try to escape from a dungeon by shooting your way past the guards with a laser pistol. The pistol is very similar to the one in Another World, in that it can both fire lasers and create laser shield to stop other bullets from passing through. It’s extremely tough, I warn you, and that may be down to the game being made in limited amount of time, but I think it ties in nicely to what the game is about – this autobiographical journey of a transition.