NFL 2013 Week 2 Thread - Go back to college Chip Kelly!

[Rockroi]

Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Aaron Hernandez, Rob Gronkowski.

Moss was exceptional and his ceiling was reached with Brady, easily the scariest QB-WR combo in NFL history. Yes, scarier than Montana-Rice or Marino-Duper. And how well did Randy do everywhere else he went? Gottcha. Welker made his bones under Brady and time will tell how he does with that step down to Manning (that was sarcasm); Hernandez and Gronk both only caught balls from Brady so we have no idea how well they would have done with lesser QBs. Needless to say, I like how all your examples come from the last 5 years or so. Where is David Patten, Reche Caldwell, Jabbar Gaffney, David Givens?

A case could even be made for Brandon Lloyd as well, his reported behavior problems aside, Lloyd is one of the most physically talented WR's to play in the last 10 years

Reach much? Brandon Lloyd is such a talented receiver that he is completely unemployable.

Your (and the other one whose up in this) argument seems to be "We see that Brady had a bad game; you need to recognize that and if you don't you are a terrible Brady homer, you Brady homers!" And then we come back and say, "Look, not really- see if you actually look at the game and if you actually look at the stats and what he was able to do with receivers he has a history with; if you look at the individual plays and the blatant miscues; if you look at how these players mis-ran routes and the blatantly dropped passes; etc etc... "

And your response is to call us Brady homers....

Oh well...

[wolverine]

Moss was exceptional and his ceiling was reached with Brady, easily the scariest QB-WR combo in NFL history. Yes, scarier than Montana-Rice or Marino-Duper. And how well did Randy do everywhere else he went? Gottcha.

Wait, Moss wasn't any good with studs like Dante Culpepper and Randall Cunningham?

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Did Moss come in at Cunningham's back end?

[Kalbear]

Only in the porn version of the Vikings.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I suppose that was set up

[Jace, Extat]

Moss was exceptional and his ceiling was reached with Brady, easily the scariest QB-WR combo in NFL history. Yes, scarier than Montana-Rice or Marino-Duper. And how well did Randy do everywhere else he went? Gottcha. Welker made his bones under Brady and time will tell how he does with that step down to Manning (that was sarcasm); Hernandez and Gronk both only caught balls from Brady so we have no idea how well they would have done with lesser QBs. Needless to say, I like how all your examples come from the last 5 years or so. Where is David Patten, Reche Caldwell, Jabbar Gaffney, David Givens?

Reach much? Brandon Lloyd is such a talented receiver that he is completely unemployable.

Your (and the other one whose up in this) argument seems to be "We see that Brady had a bad game; you need to recognize that and if you don't you are a terrible Brady homer, you Brady homers!" And then we come back and say, "Look, not really- see if you actually look at the game and if you actually look at the stats and what he was able to do with receivers he has a history with; if you look at the individual plays and the blatant miscues; if you look at how these players mis-ran routes and the blatantly dropped passes; etc etc... "

And your response is to call us Brady homers....

Oh well...

I think you're short-selling Lloyd's physical abilities, but it's not worth the effort to argue that point.

And I'm not saying that you're a Brady homer at all, (I don't care) I'm saying that I think your expectations of the receivers has been so high for the last five years that you're asking way too much from guys who honestly don't belong on the field. All of the people Brady threw too on Thursday SUCKED, Brady can't help that, and they dropped a shitload of passes, but at the same time you really can't expect them to play at the same level as their predecessors. Are you really going to pretend that with Moss, Welker, Gronk, and Murder-face Brady didn't have in some combination -at any given time- the best collective receiving options of the last half-decade? That's insane. I'm not forgetting what Tom Brady was working with in 2006, either, I mentioned that in my original post. It's perfectly reasonable to get mad at guys who are dropping perfect passes that hit their hands, it's something else to say (and I'm generalizing here) "hey, Gronk makes that catch! You, you make that catch too!" Brady should know better than that even if no one else does. He's one of the undisputed top-3 QB's in this league because he makes everyone around him better, but he wasn't doing that on Thursday. He was throwing a fit, (I think for the benefit of the fans) and whether it was genuine or not he has no business treating grown adults like that on national television.

I've never played organized football, but if you treated me like that in front of 60,000+ people and god knows how many TV viewers, my willingness to try harder to help you wouldn't increase.

[wolverine]

Did Moss come in at Cunningham's back end?

Well disregarding kalbear's comment, Moss was a rookie when Cunningham was QB and the Vikings went 15-1 in 98. He had 1300 yards and 17 TD's as a rookie with him. In 2003 he had 1632 and 17 TD's with Culpepper.

[Rockroi]

Moss was exceptional and his ceiling was reached with Brady, easily the scariest QB-WR combo in NFL history. Yes, scarier than Montana-Rice or Marino-Duper. And how well did Randy do everywhere else he went?

Yup- I blame my daughter - do not interrupt daddy when he is typing furiously in an argument on the Internet. Because of the interruption I, apparently, did not right in the word "after" at the end of the sentence. With Culpepper and Cunningham, Moss was special; with Culpepper and all the idiots on the Raiders, he was pedestrian. With Brady he was unbelievable. With The Vikings and Titans (and even the 49'ers) he was eminently forgettable.

And Jace, I can tell that you don't care because you've only written 25000 words on the subject.

All of the people Brady threw too on Thursday SUCKED, Brady can't help that, and they dropped a shitload of passes,

No argument. I will say that their PLAY sucked; they could end up being good, but they played badly Thursday.

but at the same time you really can't expect them to play at the same level as their predecessors.

Nobody is; all the Pats are expecting is that these guys will play decent football at the pro level and do things like "catch a ball thrown right to you" and "catch a ball that hits you, in stride, in the hands" and "Get both feet in bounds whn you make a side-line grab" and "know the plays". We have already discussed this ad nasuem, but we have already given many examples on how these guys failed to do this THursday (and with Thompkins as far back as last Sunday).

Are you really going to pretend that with Moss, Welker, Gronk, and Murder-face Brady didn't have in some combination -at any given time- the best collective receiving options of the last half-decade?

Moss played VERY little with Gronk and Hernandez- I think something like 6 games or so and he had lost his effectiveness. Welker + Moss was murder and Welker + Gronk + Hernandez was tremendous, but also recall that especially in 2012, Hernandez and Gronk were RARELY on the field together due to injuries to both. And what did all these guys have in common? The guy throwing to them. BUT - obviously they were good anyway- after all in 2008, the Pats O was very good (though statistically not as good as they were with Brady- won a bet on that) and that was with Matt Cassel throwing to them. I will say that its not easy to find many recieving corpst that were better, but Wayne-Harrison-Clark was extremely good.

All I am saying is that I trust the opinion and ability of the guy who's doing all that over giving the benefit of the doubt to the 2 guys who could not do their jobs. I raised a few points on this regarding stats etc and I think its really safe to say that what we say Thursday had a lot more to do with the receivers than the QB by a pretty large factor. If your argument is that "Brady was not 100% perfect in every throw ..." I am uncertain any QB has ever been in a game where he was 100% perfect.

It's perfectly reasonable to get mad at guys who are dropping perfect passes that hit their hands, it's something else to say (and I'm generalizing here) "hey, Gronk makes that catch! You, you make that catch too!"

Again, that's not the point at all- the point is not that Gronk could make those catches; the point was that a high school Div IV TE could make those catches. I did say that Gronk did make ONE catch that Thompkins dropped in the end zone, but I was also pretty clear that I diod not expect Thompkins to make that catch right now.

Brady should know better than that even if no one else does. He's one of the undisputed top-3 QB's in this league because he makes everyone around him better, but he wasn't doing that on Thursday.

Oh, no. I think he was. The problem is that if they cannot do the things like "catch a pass that hits you in the hands" then there is no helping that player right now. That guy has to do the BAREST MINIMUM to "have Brady make you better." Brady cannot throw the ball AND catch the ball... as Ms. Buchen has told us all.

He was throwing a fit, (I think for the benefit of the fans) and whether it was genuine or not he has no business treating grown adults like that on national television.

This is the area where we come the closest to agreement. I don't like people who yell at other people, especially in a professional setting. I find it rude, toxic, and disastrous. I think Brady should have handled that better. But I cannot fault him for that level of frustration. And I think he has to express to them that their failures will not be tolerated. And while I did not see the tirades in real time (I was at the game; the only one I saw was the failed goal-line conversion), I doubt they were faked; Brady has done it before (and to a degree, again, he has to cool it). But you know how to avoid that? Do . Your. Job.

THose guys were not. And that really is all that needs to be said here.... said the guy who just wrote a treatise on all the OTHER things I, apparently, needed to say...

[wolverine]

I am not sure where this argument has gone, but do you think Brady requires no blame for that offensive cesspool the Pats displayed Thursday?

I find it a little hard to believe that the receivers made all the mistakes and Brady did not throw any inaccurate passes, but I have not analyzed it as closely as it sounds like some of you have.

[Jabronius Maximus]

Well he is the Golden Boy, after all.

[BLU-RAY]

Man, having the RedZone on is like crack.

[wolverine]

I forgot how much of a moron Dierdorf is.

[Bronn Stone]

The Chip Kelly offense really seems to need the threat of the QB running. And I am no longer sure Vick is the guy for that, surprisingly enough.

ETA:

I forgot how much of a moron Dierdorf is.

The only reason I have the sound on is to know to look up from the computer when something is happening. But I have to mute with this guy. Maybe I can find the Chargers radio broadcast somewhere.

[Reposado]

Well, the perception is stupid, and most of the stuff you were saying is stuff I already said, so I'm not sure what the problem is, other than Reposado has a bug up his ass that Brady wasn't perfect and wants stupid irrational Pats fans to agree.

orrrr. i mentioned that brady had a bad game. which he did. and some pats fans did not agree that that was possible.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Is it okay to be fine with players on your fantasy team struggling if they're playing your actual team and it results in a W for your actual team?

[Reposado]

All I am saying is that I trust the opinion and ability of the guy who's doing all that over giving the benefit of the doubt to the 2 guys who could not do their jobs. I raised a few points on this regarding stats etc and I think its really safe to say that what we say Thursday had a lot more to do with the receivers than the QB by a pretty large factor. If your argument is that "Brady was not 100% perfect in every throw ..." I am uncertain any QB has ever been in a game where he was 100% perfect.

i dont have to trust anything. i saw the game. i saw the balls that brady threw. they werent good. they certainly werent top three qb good.

im not making the argument that brady didnt throw 100% good passes. im making the argument that he was bad on that day. he was. i saw it.

i watched this game. with my eyes. some people apparently watched it with blinders

i know pats fans arent going to admit this. i dont expect them too. theyll just be wrong

[Reposado]

also. san diego suddenly looks like the third best team in the afc.

[Jabronius Maximus]

Is it okay to be fine with players on your fantasy team struggling if they're playing your actual team and it results in a W for your actual team?

It's a win-win situation, kind of like betting on a team you don't like. They win, you get some money. They don't, that's also good.

And Green Bay is PISSED! I wonder just how much they're gonna run up the score...

[BLU-RAY]

also. san diego suddenly looks like the third best team in the afc.

Ehhhhh.

[Reposado]

Ehhhhh.

hyperbole a bit, but theyre starting to be in the conversation. wide open after the top 2