Varys's History and Motives: The Black Dragon's Revenge

[Lummel]

...As to why Aegon could easily be a completely fake boy:

That would be much more in concert with Varys's profession as a mummer, especially since it would take the 'power is a trick, a shadow on the wall' line up to the extreme. Varys would thus proof that everybody can be king if the people believe that he is king.

That would be an extremely interesting way for GRRM to play out the story with Varys taking advantage of both Blackfyre and Targaryen supporters to foist his own man/boy/child onto the throne who is a pure bred fake.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Who else could be the false dragon given the shortage of Targaryens and Blackfyres? Aegon is a false Targaryen, and that could make both a dragon and false.

Illyrio isn't a Blackfyre, Serra likely is. Whether or not an argument is weak is your own opinion. Before we see Varys in Arya's or Kevan's POV, we see or hear mention of the black tomcat, likely Rhaeny's cat, Balerion, who was named for a black dragon. I think there is connection given Serra is mentioned quite briefly, and I feel her story has some import for the main story. If Serra and Varys are both Blackfyres then I would expect them to be obviously related. As for half the whores in Lys having Valyrian coloring, Cersei thinks this when looking at the Bastard of Driftmark in thinking about his resemblance to Rhaegar, thinking he just a boy useful in his own way. A hint?

I don't know who the false dragon could be, but seeing as how Blackfyre's and Targaryens are both true dragons, only differing in colours, it does not seem to be about Aegon, no matter if he's a true Targaryen or a true Blackfyre.

I didn't say Illyrio is a Blackfyre. I was referring to the theories in which both Varys and Serra are Blackfyre's, and in which Varys and Serra are also brother and sister. Serra is mentioned in one conversation only, and barely anything is told about her. The only real description about her is how she looks and how she died. But somehow, people have taking her description (Valyrian) and the city where Illyrio had found her (read: NOT necessarily the city where she was born) to mean that she was a sister of Varys, of whom we know he was born in Lys, but of who we don't know what is hair colour or eye colour is. Even though Varys' name is Valyrian, he doesn't need to have the Valyrian colouring.

I really don't understand what the cat Balerion has to do with Serra or Varys here.

Multiple people have been mentioned to look like Targaryens. Not so strange, since the Targaryens had Valyrian descent and all descendants from Valyria do as well, obviously. There's the Bastard of the Driftmark, Lysono Maar, Jorah's whore. Those are just some examples.

According to semi-canon sources blonde hair is a common trait among those native to Lys. Many Lysene have white-blond hair and smooth fair skin, as the blood of the old Freehold still runs strong there.

I'll quote you the wiki. We meet several people from Lys with Valyrian colouring. That doesn't make them related. Yet, many people seem to be certain that Serra (Valyrian colouring) is related to Varys (no known hair colour, no mentioned eye colour). Seeing as Varys loving to wear lilac at court, which would bring out lilac eye colour, you'd think Tyrion would have noticed Varys' eye colour should it have been a Targaryen colouring. You know, seeing as how Tyrion seems to notice everything.

Edit: If the black tomcat really is Balerion, Rhaenys' cat, than couldn't he be the false dragon? Balerion was a dragon, and this Balerion is a cat. Yet Rhaenys alwas pretended he was a dragon. Perhaps Balerion the cat will cross Dany's path, which can't be too severe, but more like stealing Tywins food of his plate. It's not a strong connection, but the cat is an actual false dragon.

[Mithras]

By the way, Dany's visions give us mummer's dragon and cloth dragon (both are the same person). False dragon comes from Moqorro/Tyrion prophecy. I think false is not used as fake here but rather opposite of true as in true knight. So Faegon is a real dragon but he is (or will be) twisted from righteousness. We already know he is quick to anger and lacks patience. When things go ugly, he might pull out a Maegor the Cruel or Mad Aerys from himself.

Edit: I would say Aegon the Unworthy was a false dragon in this perspective whereas Aemon the Dragon knight was a true dragon (as far as we know)

[Fire Eater]

snip

It is common knowledge that Lyseni have Valyrian coloring. I'm not using Serra's coloring to prove she has Targaryen ancestry, and I never made that claim. She is from Lys, and that is where Varys is from according to Pycelle which goes against Varys's claim of being from Myr. Varys was sold into slavery, and Serra likely was as well given she was found in a pillow house. I don't see why Varys would want to engage in grand scheme to put someone's son on the IT given the large amount of risk to himself unless it was personal for him somehow.

I never said Balerion had anything to do with Serra, I clearly said before we meet Varys. The cat is named for the black dragon, and Varys, IMO, is a black dragon. I'm thinking of what the point is of Illyrio bringing up Serra if it has nothing to add to the story. The people we hear of briefly often have or had a role to play in the current series.

Edit: If the black tomcat really is Balerion, Rhaenys' cat, than couldn't he be the false dragon? Balerion was a dragon, and this Balerion is a cat. Yet Rhaenys alwas pretended he was a dragon. Perhaps Balerion the cat will cross Dany's path, which can't be too severe, but more like stealing Tywins food of his plate. It's not a strong connection, but the cat is an actual false dragon.

What would a black cat have to do with anything in terms of political situation?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

It is common knowledge that Lyseni have Valyrian coloring. I'm not using Serra's coloring to prove she has Targaryen ancestry, and I never made that claim. She is from Lys, and that is where Varys is from according to Pycelle which goes against Varys's claim of being from Myr. Varys was sold into slavery, and Serra likely was as well given she was found in a pillow house. I don't see why Varys would want to engage in grand scheme to put someone's son on the IT given the large amount of risk to himself unless it was personal for him somehow.

I never said Balerion had anything to do with Serra, I clearly said before we meet Varys. The cat is named for the black dragon, and Varys, IMO, is a black dragon. I'm thinking of what the point is of Illyrio bringing up Serra if it has nothing to add to the story. The people we hear of briefly often have or had a role to play in the current series.

Why would Aemon mention both his sisters had children? Until now, that hasn't had an influence on the story.

Varys never claims to be from Myr. Tyrion once says Varys is from Myr, in reference to Varys telling Tyrion how, when at Myr with the mummers, he was sold to the sorcerer.

Varys wasn't sold into slavery, he was born into slavery. Seeing as we don't know anything about Serra's life other than that she was a whore at some point, the assumption that she was also born in slavery is only an assumption, based on nothing.

No, Varys would have no reason to support anyone if he didn't have any personal gain. and I doubt it is about money. In what way Varys is involved, I wouldn't know, but there are more Targaryens whose descendants could play a role (Daella, Rhae, Aerion, the third son of Aegon V).

As to why Serra was mentioned at all by Illyrio? Perhaps to illustrate why Illyrio no longer has that many friends in Pentos. Marrying a whore after he had been married to the cousin of the Prince of Pentos was seen as an insult to the royalty of Pentos. They no longer consider Illyrio as their equal or friend, even though Illyrio still has a lot of money and power. That needed an explanation, IMO.

What would a black cat have to do with anything in terms of political situation?

I have no idea, but you mentioned him and suddenly I remembered Rhaenys liked to pretend he was a dragon, while he was actually a cat, which lead my thoughts. :D

[Fire Eater]

Why would Aemon mention both his sisters had children? Until now, that hasn't had an influence on the story.

Could you provide the text?

Varys wasn't sold into slavery, he was born into slavery. Seeing as we don't know anything about Serra's life other than that she was a whore at some point, the assumption that she was also born in slavery is only an assumption, based on nothing.

There is a chance she was.

No, Varys would have no reason to support anyone if he didn't have any personal gain. and I doubt it is about money. In what way Varys is involved, I wouldn't know, but there are more Targaryens whose descendants could play a role (Daella, Rhae, Aerion, the third son of Aegon V).

The descendants of Egg's sisters would be highborn, and having no business in Essos. Aerion's descendants were born on the wrong side of the blanket, and I would be surprised if any of them knew of their heritage. The Blackfyres make the most sense, IMO, as they would be trueborn and have been trying to seize the IT for a century.

As to why Serra was mentioned at all by Illyrio? Perhaps to illustrate why Illyrio no longer has that many friends in Pentos. Marrying a whore after he had been married to the cousin of the Prince of Pentos was seen as an insult to the royalty of Pentos. They no longer consider Illyrio as their equal or friend, even though Illyrio still has a lot of money and power. That needed an explanation, IMO.

It is not mentioned that Illyrio doesn't have many friends in Pentos. There is no royalty in Pentos except the Prince who is chosen from amongst forty families.

[Lord Varys]

Varys has brown eyes. Everyone who has ever seen an official portrait of him knows that. Those were all done according to GRRM's descriptions. Even if we assume that he has Valyrian hair, it's very likely that he is no incest-born Targaryen/Blackfyre.

I'd not look for his father/mother among the Blackfyres. My main suspect for his father is Egg's mysterious third son. That could work easily enough. Both Egg and all his sons married for love. All their wives could have had no dragon blood. Thus it would be very possible for Varys to have a Targaryen father and not share any (or only one) of the classical Valyrian traits. And Varys must not be his legitimate son, he could be a bastard.

We don't yet know what happened to that son but it's possible that he was disgraced and forced into exile. In fact, one reason why Egg's reign was troubled is that the royal princes fell in love with the wrong women. This could be that Egg intended to mend the rift between the Targaryens and Blackfyres by marrying his heir to a granddaughter of Daemon Blackfyre. Duncan fell in love with Jenny of Oldstones and gave up his claim to the Iron Throne. But what if the third son fell in love with the only child of the eldest son of Daemon Blackfyre (perhaps Haegon) who lived to have children of his own. Then one of the later Blackfyre rebellions - most likely the last one before the War of the Ninepenny Kings - could have been caused by Egg's third son who instigated a war to put his wife on the Iron Throne. Varys could be one of their sons, and Maelys being the grandson or great-grandson of Daemon Blackfyre through one of his younger sons.

I'd be very surprised if it did not turn out that the relationship between the Targaryens and Blackfyres were not much more complicated...

Illyrio could have been of Blackfyre descent, by the way. It's actually more likely that he is then that Serra was the one. She has Valyrian coloring, but that doesn't prove anything. On the other hand it's very likely that the Blackfyres in exile were not able to continue the Targaryen incest custom nor secure any marriages with pure-blooded Valyrian noble houses after Bittersteel died. They were impoverished exiles after all. Branches of the family tree should have been worse off than Viserys and Dany in the beginning of AGoT. And there is Illyrio's line that he still doesn't understand why Varys teamed up with him of all people. This has to be a lie since it would make little sense for Varys and Illyrio to be this close without knowing why they should work together.

[Maia]

IMHO, Aegon has to be a Blackfyre, because in ADwD the plan was for him to link with Dany and bond with one of her dragons. And as TPaTQ shows, this might be impossible at worst or hideously dangerous (with like, 1:20 odds) at best for anybody without a substantial amount of Targaryen blood.

Varys and Illyrio have invested nearly 2 decades and huge amount of resources into Aegon, they wouldn't just blithely adopt a course of action that is almost guaranteed to turn him into a crisp if he is a complete fake!

And, for that matter, what would motivate them to devote so much to placing a fake on the Iron Throne?! There can be no rational reason to do that, only deep-rooted emotional reasons could explain such long-term dedication, IMHO.

And I don't believe that Aegon could be real, because of Dany's "slayer of lies" vision of a puppet dragon and because it has become clear that Varys was, indeed, rather instrumental in the downfall of Targaryens.

He prevented Rhaegar from taking over as a regent at Harrenhal (or, at least, making a first step towards that end), he clearly was responsible for the rift between Aerys and Tywin - where else would have Aerys heard about Payne's drunken boasts? Would Cersei sneaking out for trysts with Jaime have really gone under Varys's radar? etc, etc.

Now, one important thing to note, which I didn't appreciate for a long time, is that when first introduced, Illyrio was talking Westerosi to Varys, while they thought themselves alone. I always considered it a rather clumsy plot device to allow Arya to understand them. But now I think that it is a very early hint/foreshadowing that _both_ Illyrio and Varys have Westerosi roots and that it is actually their native language. Yes, given Illyrio's investment into the whole thing, when he easily could have earned more money/amassed more power elsewhere, he has to be a Blackfyre or Bittersteel descendant himself, or at the very least a descendant of hardcore Blackfyre loyalists.

Speaking of Varys and Serra - we shouldn't uncritically accept what we have been told about their backgrounds, IMHO. It is quite likely that neither was ever a slave or a whore.

Let's remember that Aerys sent the Baratheons to look for a bride for Rhaegar in the Free Cities. Since they were unsuccessful, they must have been looking for somebody quite specific, not just a young noblewoman with Valyrian blood - as we now know there are quite a lot of them in Volantis and Lys. Couple that with repeated statement of Blackfyres being extinct in the _male_ line and it is fairly reasonable to assume that Baratheons were sent to look for a female Blackfyre descendant of proper age and upbringing. Could it have been Serra? And did Varys spirit her away and marry her to Illyrio to prevent re-unification of the lines on Targaryen terms?

Concerning Varys not producing a Blackfyre claimant during Robert's Rebellion - for all we know, Varys may have had one ready to go, but something happened. Some stupid accident or illness, etc. Or maybe Varys gave up hope to claim the throne for the Blackfyres and just wanted to destroy Targaryens once and for all, but then the manner of Aegon's death gave him an opening to try something different.

[Fire Eater]

Varys has brown eyes. Everyone who has ever seen an official portrait of him knows that. Those were all done according to GRRM's descriptions. Even if we assume that he has Valyrian hair, it's very likely that he is no incest-born Targaryen/Blackfyre.

Baelor and Daeron, Maekar's son, didn't have the Targaryen coloring for eyes as well. All of Daemon's sons were through a non-Targaryen wife, and who is to say that Varys's Blackfyre parent didn't marry a non-Blackfyre. Besides, who is to say he isn't using a glamour.

Illyrio could have been of Blackfyre descent, by the way. It's actually more likely that he is then that Serra was the one.

Actually, Aegon is using the red dragon of House Targaryen to rally Dorne to his side like Henry VII rallied the red dragon of an ancient Welsh king he claimed descent from to rally Wales, whom GRRM said is the political influence of Dorne, to his cause. If we follow the parallel, Henry Tudor was the only child of a Beaufort mother, with House Beaufort having been founded by a bastard of House Lancaster, the War of the Roses parallel for the Targaryens. Aegon, likewise, may be the only child of a Blackfyre mother.

As to the rest of your theory, if Aegon's son was behind the War of the Ninepenny kings, their children wouldn't be Blackfyres but Targaryens, and it was clearly said that Maelys was the end of the male line for House Blackfyre. If he had been Egg's grandson through on Egg's sons, then the male line would have ended earlier.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Could you provide the text?

Here it is:

Tears ran from his blind white eyes at that admission. "Death should hold no fear for a man as old as me, but it does. Isn’t that silly? It is always dark where I am, so why should I fear the darkness? Yet I cannot help but wonder what will follow, when the last warmth leaves my body. Will I feast forever in the Father’s golden hall as the septons say? Will I talk with Egg again, find Dareon whole and happy, hear my sisters singing to their children? What if the horselords have the truth of it? Will I ride through the night sky forever on a stallion made of flame?

The descendants of Egg's sisters would be highborn, and having no business in Essos. Aerion's descendants were born on the wrong side of the blanket, and I would be surprised if any of them knew of their heritage. The Blackfyres make the most sense, IMO, as they would be trueborn and have been trying to seize the IT for a century.

The descendants of Egg's sisters would be highborn, but Oberyn was highborn, Jorah was highborn, Aerion Brightflame was highborn, yet they all spend time in Essos.

Also, Aerion potential bastards were born on the wrong side of the blanket, but what of his one trueborn son, born around the time of his own death? We never learn what happened to the boy.

It is not mentioned that Illyrio doesn't have many friends in Pentos. There is no royalty in Pentos except the Prince who is chosen from amongst forty families.

And those 40 families wouldn't feel slighted because of Illyrio marrying a whore? Illyrio is no longer welcome in the palace, and the Prince of Pentos changes often.

Varys has brown eyes. Everyone who has ever seen an official portrait of him knows that. Those were all done according to GRRM's descriptions. Even if we assume that he has Valyrian hair, it's very likely that he is no incest-born Targaryen/Blackfyre.

Are those portraits canon? I suppose so, if GRRM provided the descriptions. That would put an end to Varys with Blackfyre blood. We've heard about Targaryens with different eye colours, but never before was brown mentioned.

I'd not look for his father/mother among the Blackfyres. My main suspect for his father is Egg's mysterious third son. That could work easily enough. Both Egg and all his sons married for love. All their wives could have had no dragon blood. Thus it would be very possible for Varys to have a Targaryen father and not share any (or only one) of the classical Valyrian traits. And Varys must not be his legitimate son, he could be a bastard.

We don't yet know what happened to that son but it's possible that he was disgraced and forced into exile. In fact, one reason why Egg's reign was troubled is that the royal princes fell in love with the wrong women. This could be that Egg intended to mend the rift between the Targaryens and Blackfyres by marrying his heir to a granddaughter of Daemon Blackfyre. Duncan fell in love with Jenny of Oldstones and gave up his claim to the Iron Throne. But what if the third son fell in love with the only child of the eldest son of Daemon Blackfyre (perhaps Haegon) who lived to have children of his own. Then one of the later Blackfyre rebellions - most likely the last one before the War of the Ninepenny Kings - could have been caused by Egg's third son who instigated a war to put his wife on the Iron Throne. Varys could be one of their sons, and Maelys being the grandson or great-grandson of Daemon Blackfyre through one of his younger sons.

I'd be very surprised if it did not turn out that the relationship between the Targaryens and Blackfyres were not much more complicated...

Illyrio could have been of Blackfyre descent, by the way. It's actually more likely that he is then that Serra was the one. She has Valyrian coloring, but that doesn't prove anything. On the other hand it's very likely that the Blackfyres in exile were not able to continue the Targaryen incest custom nor secure any marriages with pure-blooded Valyrian noble houses after Bittersteel died. They were impoverished exiles after all. Branches of the family tree should have been worse off than Viserys and Dany in the beginning of AGoT. And there is Illyrio's line that he still doesn't understand why Varys teamed up with him of all people. This has to be a lie since it would make little sense for Varys and Illyrio to be this close without knowing why they should work together.

I think if Egg´s third son was send into exile, it would have been mentioned by now, seeing as it could not have been that long ago. The War of the Ninepenny Kings is mentioned several times, and that was the last Blackfyre Rebellion. It would have been mentioned that Aegon had to have send an army against his own son by now.

[John Hulboy]

I agree that varys is good at what he does.a pov from him would tell us everything.if serra an varys are brother/sister wouldn't he be male descendent at some point in his life.i like to believe the blackfryes will play a role.he is protecting heirs to great houses in with golden co, illyrio, I wonder who else support he has . earlier I believed he was trying to bring the targs/blackfyres together as one house.then u got jonsnow.how does varys know nothing about jons parentage or does he.he seems to have a plan to win.i wish would get something new so we could have a MERRY xmas.

[Fire Eater]

Are those portraits canon? I suppose so, if GRRM provided the descriptions. That would put an end to Varys with Blackfyre blood. We've heard about Targaryens with different eye colours, but never before was brown mentioned.

Just because we have not seen someone with Targaryen blood having brown eyes doesn't mean that they can't exist. Saying Varys has brown eyes doesn't prove he doesn't have Targaryen blood. That is the same as saying we have never seen a Targaryen with grey eyes before, so that proves Jon doesn't have Targaryen blood. Besides, it could be a glamour like BR and Mel.

The descendants of Egg's sisters would be highborn, but Oberyn was highborn, Jorah was highborn, Aerion Brightflame was highborn, yet they all spend time in Essos.

Also, Aerion potential bastards were born on the wrong side of the blanket, but what of his one trueborn son, born around the time of his own death? We never learn what happened to the boy.

I admit I am curious to know what happened to Aerion's infant son as well. As to Egg's sisters they were most likely married to lords with trueborn children, and unlikely for their progeny to have been exiled.

[Mithras]

“Near forty years I have been Grand Maester of the Seven Kingdoms,” Pycelle replied. “Under our good King Robert, and Aerys Targaryen before him, and his father Jaehaerys the Second before him, and even for a few short months under Jaehaerys’s father, Aegon the Fortunate, the Fifth of His Name.

Pycelle clutched for a corner of the blanket. “Birds are lost, messages stolen or sold... it was Varys, there are things I might tell you of that eunuch that would chill your blood.”

Two interesting points here:

1. Pycelle was assigned to the Council as Grand Maester in the last months of Egg’s reign.
   
2. “messages stolen or sold”
   

Did Pycelle played any role in the Tragedy at Summerhal?

Was Varys tying some loose ends when he killed Pycelle?

Do “messages stolen or sold” mean that maesters sell information to Varys, LF and alike?

If so, what do they get in return? Gold, boys, girls …? That serving girl of Pycelle?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Near forty years I have been Grand Maester of the Seven Kingdoms, Pycelle replied. Under our good King Robert, and Aerys Targaryen before him, and his father Jaehaerys the Second before him, and even for a few short months under Jaehaeryss father, Aegon the Fortunate, the Fifth of His Name.

Pycelle clutched for a corner of the blanket. Birds are lost, messages stolen or sold... it was Varys, there are things I might tell you of that eunuch that would chill your blood.

Two interesting points here:

• Pycelle was assigned to the Council as Grand Maester in the last months of Eggs reign.
• messages stolen or sold

Did Pycelle played any role in the Tragedy at Summerhal?

Was Varys tying some loose ends when he killed Pycelle?

Do messages stolen or sold mean that maesters sell information to Varys, LF and alike?

If so, what do they get in return? Gold, boys, girls ? That serving girl of Pycelle?

All I remember is that the Citadel send Pycelle, because they wanted a young grandmaester, one who wouldn't die a few years after service, as the previous few grandmaesters had done.

But messages sold... Could be that he meant that the people handeling the messages could be selling the contents of those messages.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Varys has brown eyes. Everyone who has ever seen an official portrait of him knows that. Those were all done according to GRRM's descriptions. Even if we assume that he has Valyrian hair, it's very likely that he is no incest-born Targaryen/Blackfyre.

I'd not look for his father/mother among the Blackfyres. My main suspect for his father is Egg's mysterious third son. That could work easily enough. Both Egg and all his sons married for love. All their wives could have had no dragon blood. Thus it would be very possible for Varys to have a Targaryen father and not share any (or only one) of the classical Valyrian traits. And Varys must not be his legitimate son, he could be a bastard.

We don't yet know what happened to that son but it's possible that he was disgraced and forced into exile. In fact, one reason why Egg's reign was troubled is that the royal princes fell in love with the wrong women. This could be that Egg intended to mend the rift between the Targaryens and Blackfyres by marrying his heir to a granddaughter of Daemon Blackfyre. Duncan fell in love with Jenny of Oldstones and gave up his claim to the Iron Throne. But what if the third son fell in love with the only child of the eldest son of Daemon Blackfyre (perhaps Haegon) who lived to have children of his own. Then one of the later Blackfyre rebellions - most likely the last one before the War of the Ninepenny Kings - could have been caused by Egg's third son who instigated a war to put his wife on the Iron Throne. Varys could be one of their sons, and Maelys being the grandson or great-grandson of Daemon Blackfyre through one of his younger sons.

I'd be very surprised if it did not turn out that the relationship between the Targaryens and Blackfyres were not much more complicated...

Illyrio could have been of Blackfyre descent, by the way. It's actually more likely that he is then that Serra was the one. She has Valyrian coloring, but that doesn't prove anything. On the other hand it's very likely that the Blackfyres in exile were not able to continue the Targaryen incest custom nor secure any marriages with pure-blooded Valyrian noble houses after Bittersteel died. They were impoverished exiles after all. Branches of the family tree should have been worse off than Viserys and Dany in the beginning of AGoT. And there is Illyrio's line that he still doesn't understand why Varys teamed up with him of all people. This has to be a lie since it would make little sense for Varys and Illyrio to be this close without knowing why they should work together.

Yes! Now we are two.

[Mithras]

"Who took the dragon's egg? There were guards at the door, and more guards on the steps, no way anyone could have gotten into Lord Butterwell's bedchamber unobserved."

Lord Rivers smiled. "Were I to guess, I'd say someone climbed up inside the privy shaft."

"The privy shaft was too small to climb."

"For a man. A child could do it."

"Or a dwarf," Dunk blurted. A thousand eyes, and one. Why shouldn't some of them belong to a troupe of comic dwarfs?

Varys preferred orphan boys and young girls. He chose the smallest, the ones who were quick and quiet, and taught them to climb walls and slip down chimneys. He taught them to read as well. We left the gold and gems for common thieves. Instead our mice stole letters, ledgers, charts … later, they would read them and leave them where they lay.

Bloodraven is one of the best Master of Spies in the history. He even ended the Second Blackfyre Rebellion before it’s started. The succes of Varys so far is due to his superior analysis of the known history. Besides, he thinks like a mummer. He is all about appearance and deception like a master mummer.

[Fire Eater]

snip

BR was a sorcerer as well, and Varys may be one.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

BR was a sorcerer as well, and Varys may be one.

BR was indeed a sorcerer. Too bad that Varys seems to really hate magic

[Rooseman]

Too bad that Varys seems to really hate magic

I really, really don't get why so many people assume this as a fact (or near enaugh). All we have is Varys' word, and that's not worth all that much.

Through Arya's POV we learn a lot about what it takes to both be a convincing liar, and how to spot those signs that give away the truth of someone. What Arya is practicing with the Waif is to learn what kind of tells there are, how to spot them and how to control them so that she'll be able to fool others. When the Waif tells her about her past, she learns about mixing truths with falsehoods too.

The one thing that convinces people about Varys' hate of magic is his change of voice. I think we can agree that Varys is a good mummer and manipulator, and he also knows that Tyrion is a perceptive guy? So, is it so far fetched that he'd just fake a tell that indicates him being truthful, in order to make Tyrion believe him?

I don't know, if it was any other book I'd take the change of voice as evidence for the truthfulness as well... but this is ASoIaF. Layers beneath layers, wheels inside wheels... And we're explicitly told that there are certain kinds of people who learn to fake exactly those kind of tells... At least take Varys' statement with a big pinch of salt.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I really, really don't get why so many people assume this as a fact (or near enaugh). All we have is Varys' word, and that's not worth all that much.

Through Arya's POV we learn a lot about what it takes to both be a convincing liar, and how to spot those signs that give away the truth of someone. What Arya is practicing with the Waif is to learn what kind of tells there are, how to spot them and how to control them so that she'll be able to fool others. When the Waif tells her about her past, she learns about mixing truths with falsehoods too.

The one thing that convinces people about Varys' hate of magic is his change of voice. I think we can agree that Varys is a good mummer and manipulator, and he also knows that Tyrion is a perceptive guy? So, is it so far fetched that he'd just fake a tell that indicates him being truthful, in order to make Tyrion believe him?

I don't know, if it was any other book I'd take the change of voice as evidence for the truthfulness as well... but this is ASoIaF. Layers beneath layers, wheels inside wheels... And we're explicitly told that there are certain kinds of people who learn to fake exactly those kind of tells... At least take Varys' statement with a big pinch of salt.

If Varys isv a BF (I think it's Illyrio but I think like one other person agrees with me) then he might have "inherited" BS's hatred of BR. There seem to be three types of Targs, the asskicker (eg Maekar), the scholar (eg Aerys I), and the jolly fellow (eg Viserys I). We see a few who transcend the stereotypes (eg Baelor) but most fit in one or the other. And of course there a couple of total whackadoos. The asskickers don't seem to like the scholars. I would think BS is of the former group and BR is of the latter. Even though Varys is no asskicker he is the descendant of the faction that fought Daeron II and BR.

ETA: BTW I'm really reaching here. I'd also throw out that in the glorified fanfic known as the show, which Martin has sanctioned, Varys hunted down and caight his castrator. Now I know we shouldnt look to the show because it runs parallel and does thimgs more quickly and cheaply. But this one instance where the show and the books would depart dramatically if Varys was indeed a sorcerer.