Sansa Stark

[Minsc]

Arya, Brienne, etc. want things other than marriage and motherhood, which means that they are trying to achieve something beyond marriage and motherhood. That separates them from Sansa types, who are not typically inclined towards achievement other than marriage and motherhood, as I have been saying.

We see Arya, for example, working on and refining her skills, over and over again: GRRM shows that push, that drive, that obsession at self-improvement. We never see Sansa similarly working on her skillset the way Arya works away at her dancing lessons: learning as much as she can on her own, refining her abilities, picking up whatever she can. Not even when she's in the Eyrie does she push herself to improve, to absorb, to master, to study Littlefinger and mimic him, to pepper Littlefinger with questions about how to play the game of thrones. Why? Because she isn't that sort of person. She's just not made that way. She's content to mosey along, taking it as it comes, without worrying too much about learning. Like most ordinary people, she's complacent and prefers not to exert herself where not necessary. That's okay and all--most people aren't cut out to become truly skilled at anything, either through lack of talent or lack of drive--but it separates her sharply from the type of person who's capable of great achievements, who can push themselves to master something the way Arya pushes herself.

Or it means that Sansa doesn't desire to be a person like Littlefinger, while Arya has no problem learning to become a killer. Thus, I guess you could argue that the difference is in their moral center.

edit: Moreover, it comparison to Syrio's training we have Sansa's high success with Septa Mordaine who likely was the figure that was responsible for teaching Sansa all of her skills as a lady (as I doubt they were just downloaded into her brain). The only difference being that Sansa has mastered her skills before the series while Arya needs to be still taught them within the series.

Additionally, IIRC when Sansa was still interacting with the Tyrells she tagged along with them and was beginning to learn some new subskills such as hawking and harp. Only these aren't highly riveting skills that George felt the need to show her learning in the midst of ASOS.

[bbstark]

congrats Annara Snow on an excellent post, I highly agree with it.

I don't think it's sufficient to distinguish "Sansa"/"Arya"- types by the sole identifier of how they adhere to their expected gender roles. "Tomboy" or "girly-girl" are far from enough to fully characterize either girl, or any complete girl from that matter.

Now to the issue of future job outlooks: Unlike Arya, Sansa finds her expected 'future job' far more palatable. Isn't this natural though? I mean everyone finds certain tasks more fun than others, and Arya is very naturally talented at athletics, and from certain indicators mathematical, rational thinking. She lacks interpersonal relation skills; Arya is not talented at poltics, and yet Sansa is.

Regarding Sansa and her awareness of her future intentions, at one point ( I think due to anger at Joff) she thinks to herself

"When I have children I will teach them to hate Lannisters".

Now Sansa is perfectly aware of her future position as the lady of a high ranking Lord, and she knows that she will be raising lords and rulers, and this sentiment is potentially an indicator of the North's hostile attitude and possibly policies toward the Westerlands. It's not necessarily a well thought-out, or shrewed political thought, but it IS a politcal thought.

In other words, Sansa doesn't think radically to break down barriers presented to her as a woman, but she does intend to use her position to further personal agendas. She has a valid opinion on HOW she intends to act in it. It's not a job created by human resources, and not exaclty comperable to how we think of occupation these days, but her thinking about her position indicates she isn't passive about it. She's a very proactive thinker, even if understated in her actions.

So I'm not sure exactly how she is "a type".

[Minsc]

Eh, you think Arya ever really wanted to be a king's councillor or a High Septon? I don't think so. She just listed alternative careers, because she didn't like the ones that were expected of girls.

Hell, of anything IIRC she was just repeating back the list that Ned gave on what Bran might still perform after being crippled thus it isn't like she was just spending up her time thinking of alternatives to being a Lady of a Castle.

[Annara Snow]

Hell, of anything IIRC she was just repeating back the list that Ned gave on what Bran might still perform after being crippled thus it isn't like she was just spending up her time thinking of alternatives to being a Lady of a Castle.

Yes, it was her basically saying "Well, why couldn't I do that if I wanted to?" rather than "These are the things I would like to do". She's never shown any inclination towards either religion or politics, and I can't imagine her seriously considering either of these career paths.

On the other hand, she's known men who fight all her life - her father, much of the Stark household - and seen her brothers practice fighting, and she knows it's something she likes, unlike needlework or music or these other 'ladylike' things she was neither talented nor interested in (and one certainly affects the other).

[Newstar]

Sorry, but this is a ridiculous conclusion that suggests an utter lack of understanding of the difference between the position of women in a deeply oppressive medieval-type society and the position of women in contemporary Western society.

I could equally say your assumption that a modern Sansa would have any interest in any sort of career whatsoever, when Book Sansa lacks any such interest, is ridiculous, but there's no need to be uncivil. :D

Not going to comment on the other parts of your posts since they can be summed up with "Sansa sucks" with no explanation of terms like "her temperament", "her type" etc.

As I said, nothing wrong with being temperamentally disinclined towards achievement. Most people are, after all. If you choose to interpret that observation as a slur on Sansa's character, I'd say that says more about you and your own issues than it does about my statement. :D

Eh, you think Arya ever really wanted to be a king's councillor or a High Septon? I don't think so. She just listed alternative careers, because she didn't like the ones that were expected of girls.

My point was that Arya's desire for something else goes beyond being a warrior/soldier, while Sansa never absorbs the idea that there is an "else" to begin with. That's a testament to her conventional, rather narrow thinking, that I think would be translated in the modern era towards Sansa having no interest in any kind of achievement beyond marriage and motherhood, although I suppose I couldn't rule out a side trip to college to get her MRS degree. :D

Or it means that Sansa doesn't desire to be a person like Littlefinger, while Arya has no problem learning to become a killer. Thus, I guess you could argue that the difference is in their moral center.

As Le Cygne pointed out, regardless of Sansa's feelings about Littlefinger's morals, she has realized that she has no choice but to play the game of thrones ("I never asked to play"). If she were of a different temperament, she would take her position and do whatever she could to learn as much as she could about her position and how to leverage it, working ruthlessly to learn as much as she could from Littlefinger (if only to use that information to turn on him). She doesn't do that, though, does she? She kind of ambles along, absorbing the occasional lesson from Littlefinger where he sees fit to bestow his knowledge on her. That's fine and all, but it's not the mark of someone destined for greatness.

Now to the issue of future job outlooks: Unlike Arya, Sansa finds her expected 'future job' far more palatable. Isn't this natural though? I mean everyone finds certain tasks more fun than others, and Arya is very naturally talented at athletics, and from certain indicators mathematical, rational thinking. She lacks interpersonal relation skills; Arya is not talented at poltics, and yet Sansa is.

Again, talent has nothing to do with choice of career or achievement, if the person is not temperamentally inclined to make the most of their talents. If you have an incredible voice and a Sansa temperament, you'll sing for your family and in a local choir. If you have an incredible voice and another type of temperament, you'll sing at the Met. You see the difference?

Sansa might be talented at politics--I personally think that's debatable, but moving right along--but she has no interest in using that talent, does she? She'd just as soon take her ball and go home and never think about the game of thrones ever again. Even now, when she's been forced into playing the game of thrones, she sort of trundles along as I've been saying.

Now Sansa is perfectly aware of her future position as the lady of a high ranking Lord, and she knows that she will be raising lords and rulers, and this sentiment is potentially an indicator of the North's hostile attitude and possibly policies toward the Westerlands. It's not necessarily a well thought-out, or shrewed political thought, but it IS a politcal thought.

Not really. It's more of an emotional reaction of channeling her anger and desire for revenge into another channel. Sansa's not really a violent person, so her desire for revenge takes rather different forms: hoping that Joff breaks his neck, dreaming about teaching her children to teach Lannisters, etc.

She's a very proactive thinker, even if understated in her actions.

If you're a proactive thinker, but you never realize those thoughts by acting, that's not really any different in the end, is it? The end result is the same: no action.

[Pod The Impaler]

Sansa's not exactly cunning in the tactical / strategic sense, but when it comes to the social niceties, she is excellent at those skills, and at charming people in general. She is not reserved, and is a social butterfly, but mindful of all the proper sorts of restraint and decorum. She seems to also be capable of having a sort of sense of peoples' deeper emotions (as well as hiding or nullifying her own). That empathic ability can be quite powerful, given the right mix of education and instinct.

Sansa starts out as someone who could master the more superficial aspects of it, because at the time she was 11 and quite used to thinking superficially. As we see Sansa's thoughts, it is almost like everything is a story or song to her, and her is the most important: the beautiful good-girl princess type who must be rescued by a gallant handsome prince. The people in her life seem to live as characters in her story: the father who means well but cannot understand her; the bastard halfbrother who bad-mouths the prince due to envy; the glamourous queen; the somewhat-evil sister who seems to play the Eris role of infusing chaos into all otherwise harmonious things.

That being said, Sansa is capable of learning, and slowly she begins to see how other people think, especially when it comes to advancing their interests, and deceiving others. Her need to survive has spurred much of this on, but so has her exposure to people like Tyrion and Petyr Baelish. She is still quite girlish and somewhat naive, but certainly more cautious and reserved than before, and less naive.

Of all the Starks, she seems the most gifted at lying and flattery, and now has learned to keep secrets, but it remains to be seen whether she is actually capable of treachery.

[Dornishpenguin]

Sansa was all about meeting societies expectations. In Westeros, that meant she dreamt of achieving the highest honor a noblewoman could have- marriage with the crown prince, and raising beautiful children.

If we placed Sansa and Arya as daughters of a well off powerful family in modern America, the expectations Sansa would be attempting to meet would be radically different. She would likely be attending an Ivy League school, studying to become a lawyer or some other prestigious career that would earn her approval from others. She'd want it all- the nice degree, good job and family, but wouldn't understand how much it would take to achieve the goal. In contrast, Arya would be the one dreaming of having an unrealistic career (ie- athlete) and studying something that most would consider to be useless.

Similarly, in the 50's, Sansa would strive to be the perfect housewife and only go to college to get her M.R.S degree.

Sansa excelled at her crafts because she wanted to get approval. If Sansa's character was transported to the modern age, she would stay consistent in her desire to please, but the expectations would change.

[bloodofwinterfell]

I didn't realize being feminine and fitting into society's expectations of you was a crime. :dunno:

One of the biggest points in her arc is her realization that she was just one of those pretty little birds who repeated nice things, just like Sandor pointed out. And in a way, ever since AGOT she has been doing the opposite of what was expected of her: being attracted to the hound instead of a handsome knight, rejecting her husband, pretending to be a bastard...

That's why I feel like her future is going to be something about her gaining more agency and starting to be more proactive rather than passively reacting to her surroundings like she was trained to do. I think this will happen through her becoming a player since her arc has been the one most tied to politics in the story, but I may be wrong.

[Minsc]

I could equally say your assumption that a modern Sansa would have any interest in any sort of career whatsoever, when Book Sansa lacks any such interest, is ridiculous, but there's no need to be uncivil. :D

Book:Sansa desires a job though, in she first wants to be Queen and then later she wants to be a Lady of a Castle both activities that are much more then just wife and mother as demonstrated by Catelyn.

As Le Cygne pointed out, regardless of Sansa's feelings about Littlefinger's morals, she has realized that she has no choice but to play the game of thrones ("I never asked to play"). If she were of a different temperament, she would take her position and do whatever she could to learn as much as she could about her position and how to leverage it, working ruthlessly to learn as much as she could from Littlefinger (if only to use that information to turn on him). She doesn't do that, though, does she? She kind of ambles along, absorbing the occasional lesson from Littlefinger where he sees fit to bestow his knowledge on her. That's fine and all, but it's not the mark of someone destined for greatness.

Littlefinger isn't a teacher, unlike Syrio or the Kindly Man thus just listening to what he says is the only means to learn what he knows. In how, he isn't going to sit Sansa down and explain how you set up a continent wide-war and so forth. Furthermore, if Sansa started pressuring him on it LF would likely shut up as he would realize he might be giving up more then he wants.

In contrast, to Syrio who is being payed to teach Arya to sword fight and the Kindly Man who is attempting to teach Arya to be a Faceless Man. The equivalent would be seeing Arya learned about assassinating people stealthy from Jaqen H'ghar, as both were "friends" that weren't actively attempting to teach either girl their skillset.

[Newstar]

She seems to also be capable of having a sort of sense of peoples' deeper emotions (as well as hiding or nullifying her own).

Eh, I think Sansa's had as many failures as successes when it comes to discerning others' emotions--and her failures have been catastrophic--and there are people who are capable of reading her very easily. Tyrion, Cersei, the Hound and others all see through her at various instances.

The people in her life seem to live as characters in her story: the father who means well but cannot understand her; the bastard halfbrother who bad-mouths the prince due to envy; the glamourous queen; the somewhat-evil sister who seems to play the Eris role of infusing chaos into all otherwise harmonious things.

Couldn't one equally say that Sansa seeks to find simplicity in complexity? She prefers to boil things down to their essence so that they're easier for her to grasp. She's not very comfortable with complexity or ambiguity, which is why it's so hard for her to reconcile the idea that Joffrey can be handsome, charming, and gallant as well as being a psychopathic monster (as late as ASOS, she wonders how a monster like Joffrey can dance so beautifully), and why she comes up with two personalities for Littlefinger and rationalizes that the nasty Littlefinger is only a mask for the nice Petyr. Not surprising, as Sansa's not a terribly deep thinker.

Of all the Starks, she seems the most gifted at lying and flattery

It seems clear that Arya's better at it by now; she's actually being trained how to lie.

Littlefinger isn't a teacher

He clearly views himself as such, though. All his preening about the game of thrones seems primed for Sansa to take advantage of his knowledge by seeking as much knowledge from him as possible to use to her benefit, but of course she never does, because she's not wired that way.

Furthermore, if Sansa started pressuring him on it LF would likely shut up as he would realize he might be giving up more then he wants.

However, she never even makes the attempt, if only to be rebuffed. She doesn't try, because she doesn't think to try, and she doesn't think to try because she's not that kind of person. There's a passage in ACOK where it's mentioned that Arya reads the contents of the letters at Harrenhal that come into her possession, as the writer didn't bother to seal them, and I seriously wondered whether Sansa would bother to read them as well. I honestly tend to doubt it.

[Bruce Wayne]

Book:Sansa desires a job though, in she first wants to be Queen and then later she wants to be a Lady of a Castle both activities that are much more then just wife and mother as demonstrated by Catelyn.

Exactly, she wants to be Queen, this is an interest, and this is the highest position for a woman.

[Addam_Marbrand]

When Cersei of all people can read through you, there is a huge problem.

[Pod The Impaler]

Eh, I think Sansa's had as many failures as successes when it comes to discerning others' emotions--and her failures have been catastrophic--and there are people who are capable of reading her very easily. Tyrion, Cersei, the Hound and others all see through her at various instances.

Couldn't one equally say that Sansa seeks to find simplicity in complexity? She prefers to boil things down to their essence so that they're easier for her to grasp. She's not very comfortable with complexity or ambiguity ...

Sansa's quite intuitive though when she is not actively blocking it out herself. I think much of the problem is that her instincts and her expectations are at odds, and for the early part of the story, her expectations always seem to win out.

"Simplicity in complexity" may be one way of expressing this. She does not want to be a suspicious person, but she learns that she has to be, with much reluctance.

By the time we reach the end of AFFC, she is suspicious and intuitive enough that she perceives the link between LF and Lyn Corbray. Not at first, but her instincts nag at her until she finally sidelines the simple explanation presented and perceives the situation from an more complex (and ultimately truthful) perspective.

It seems clear that Arya's better at it by now; she's actually being trained how to lie.

To begin with, Arya is not much of a liar, and quite uncompromising on that front. Arya's receiving better training in outright deception and counter-deception. Whether that includes emotional manipulation remains to be seen. I would say her skills are have a different feel to them; it does not seem like charm, but almost more like an interrogator's training. Charm school may come later though, depending what Izembaro is about.

(Does it make sense as a comparison to say that Sansa would be ideal for the diplomatic service, but Arya for military intelligence?)

[Minsc]

When Cersei of all people can read through you, there is a huge problem.

IIRC, Cersei reads through her in realizing she hates Joffrey which is hardly an accomplishment as it should be frankly obvious to everyone that a girl likely hates someone who killed her father and repeatedly has her physically beaten by grown men.

It is not like Cersei read through her in realizing she is planning to escape with Dontos or something that isn't as blatantly obvious.

[Minsc]

He clearly views himself as such, though. All his preening about the game of thrones seems primed for Sansa to take advantage of his knowledge by seeking as much knowledge from him as possible to use to her benefit, but of course she never does, because she's not wired that way.

Or it means LF is a braggart who likes showing off to the girl he has a crush on. Simply, Sansa's relationship is extremely different then Syrio and the Kindly Man's relationship with Arya. As the latter two openly present themselves to Arya as being instructors there to teach her a skillset.

[Florina Laufeyson]

See, I think Arya is a child soldier-type character on a Break the Cutie arc, like the other Stark kids.

Yes, in the most disturbing way possible. Arya's psyche is going in weird directions.

*Wild applause*

Indeed.

[Newstar]

Sansa's quite intuitive though when she is not actively blocking it out herself.

Not really. She completely fails to pick up on Cersei's character and fails to see her true nature, when her duplicitous nature and vile character should be painfully obvious. She completely falls under Margaery's spell and is horribly disillusioned when she learns the truth (of which she had no inkling), hardly suggestive of "blocking." No blocking on her part in these instances, just a lack of perceptiveness. Sansa does have the occasional moment of intuitive insight, but so do most characters in the books at one point or another, even the denser ones like Victarion. She's about average or slightly below-average in the intuition department in relation to the other characters: if anything, she's a little lacking.

...I also dispute the notion that Sansa is this queen of empathy, which is a popular myth about Sansa that gets trotted out every now and then (often by posters who seem desperate--for whatever reason--to ascribe superlative talents to Sansa). She has her moments of showing empathy and compassion, but she also has her moments where compassion and empathy are notably absent from her behaviour (lack of concern for Mycah's fate, dosing Sweetrobin with dangerous medicine, etc.). It doesn't mean she's a heartless monster, but it does mean that she doesn't have some sort of empathy superpower, no more than any other character does. She has moments of empathy and moments of callousness, just like pretty much everyone else in the books who isn't one of the psychopaths; Cat is overflowing with compassion for Brienne but has none for Jon, Margaery is devoted to her cousins and to Tommen but snubbed and subsequently framed Sansa, Dany is horrified by the treatment slaves receive but orders the torture of the wineseller's daughters, etc. She's just about average, in other words.

"Simplicity in complexity" may be one way of expressing this. She does not want to be a suspicious person, but she learns that she has to be, with much reluctance.

Or perhaps she's just not a terribly complicated thinker and seeks to reduce things to stereotypes or fairy tales, as you suggested. Fairy tales are powerfully appealing for children, in part because of their simplicity. Since Sansa is a simple, rather limited thinker, she naturally gravitates towards songs and stories, where everything is nice, pretty, and easy to grasp (as opposed to messy, complicated, and difficult to understand). Sansa's abhorrence of complex concepts and her desperate need to reduce complicated realities to fairy tales is completely at odds with the image some seem to have of her as this budding genius. Geniuses revel in complexity; Sansa runs away screaming from it.

Arya's receiving better training in outright deception and counter-deception.

Agreed.

Whether that includes emotional manipulation remains to be seen. I would say her skills are have a different feel to them; it does not seem like charm, but almost more like an interrogator's training. Charm school may come later though, depending what Izembaro is about.

I suspect the charm school component of Arya's training is coming later on; it could very well take that direction if Izembaro has some connection to courtesan training, as some have speculated. I do like the theory that Izembaro is a mummer, though.

[Woman of War]

Question: what is the alternative to making Sansa a player. And is an alternative possible that doesn't reduce her entire narrative purpose to be our lens into certain places and to be shuffled around the players who matter?

Because, frankly, currently she is not set up to be a player, character-wise. All players are hard and shrewd to some degree, all players are able to see through a lot of people lying to them, all players are able to exercise physical violence, if only by proxy. Meanwhile Sansa has never exercised any form of violence, real or by proxy, still gets played by someone like Myranda Royce (and even Sweetrobin to some degree), and is still compassionate and soft when someone is just nice enough or needs her help enough.

In order to play the game, Sansa would have to put her intelligence and paranoia into highngear, while losing her compassion. And worst of all, lose a quality that majorly distinguish her from all major characters - her everyman status. Sansa is not magical or super-smart, she is not a warrior queen in the making. She is not a horrible villainous person or crazy or so abused that it is no longer understandable by conventional means. She is not a zombie or a greenseer or wildling princess. Not a priestess, not a seductress of men, not any of those fantasy tropes that are used to make women acceptable to genre audience. She is not Ripley or Sarah Connor or what people think Joan of Arc was.

She is the female equivalent to Samwell Tarly, a normal person dropped into a fantasy setting that requires unbelievable talent to navigate it successfully. Or, as in her and Sam's cases - luck. The everyman character is a great character to have but it's not a credible character to excel in those settings. Sam gets lucky with the obsidian and he is book smart but no one sees him on the Iron Throne at the end. I wonder why people refuse to accept Sam's limitations for Sansa, and believe that she is going to exchange her everyman status to become just like anybody else in ASOIAF?

Sansa as a player is a waste of her character, is the perversion of her established characterization, and it betrays a lack of imagination. There has got to be a way for her to matter that doesn't require playing the game, just like anybody else does.

:Agree:

Though we never know. Turning her into a cunning player would be out of character just as much as making her an evil antagonist or even a ruthless grey character. But we never know.

What kind of feminist discourse is this?

Why is being "feminine" still used today to characterize the exact nature of what a woman does? This word is utterly useless in describing anything.

I guess those who use that word try to fix some characteristics and attitudes on persons of female sex, not gender, in a very stereotypical manner. Basically this awfully reductionist term falsely decribes a certain approach to the world that can be characterized as compassionate, emphatic, polite, in short interpersonally oriented as positive qualities and accepting social norms and values as neutral, depending on circumstances.

But we must be aware that what people mean who use "feminine" can have a strong negative component as well, which can be summarized under not wanting to make an impression in the world. "Feminine" is used here as justifying lack of inventiveness, lack of proactive approaches, no willingness to shape one's own fate, in short a passive approach to the world, the conviction that there will always be someone who organizes life for you.

All those characteristics may have been ascribed to women throughout history by patriarchial society. and those who use the word "feminity" still today step exactly into that trap.

First of all there is no reason why all those positive and less positive qualities should only describe people of female gender. As if men could not be compassionate and caring or or passively expect life to be served on a silver platter. 100 years of gender debate.

And the second big mistake is describing certain activities with being "feminine" or not. Every activity, every job can be done with very different approaches that can in no way be sorted after gender specifics.

You can be compassionate and caring and yet be a hugely ambitious doctor or politician.

You can be great at maths and yet end as number cruncher because you have chosen to let others do the conceptional work.

A policewoman cannot be "feminine"? An engineer? Or is a "feminine" engineer someone who lacks ambition? Is it feminine to lack ambition? And what is an ambitious woman engineer or soldier, not feminine enough? Come on!

You can be successful and ruthless in the fashion department or stay at home and knit while watching TV.

You can be extremely caring in organizing welfare against all odds, swiping away obstacles, steal from the rich and give to the poor. "feminine" or "masculine"?

Reducing human behaviour and activities by putting the gender label on them is not helpful at all.

And, apart from that, of what use is the morally positive "feminine" approach of being caring without the "masculine" approach of being determined or even the morally negative ruthlessness? Nice to collect for charity if you lack the will and determination to get what is needed where it should go.

It is the approach to life that counts, not the precise nature of what you do. "feminity" is a word here that only leads backwards.

I am of course aware that there are more male than female murderers in our world. Because murdering is not "feminine" or because women are the better humans? It is easy to be the better human if you have no power to be evil.

So Sansa is a person who has some positive qualities her society happens to teach to and to value in women. And she has some negative qualities that go along with the "feminity" syndrome. Some are learned like valuing courtesies over honesty and some may be personality traits that are hard to overcome like a passive approach in applying creativity and wanting to please everyone.

Why did I write that lengthy text here when I could have used my time out due to a cold in a better way than thinking about a character that I precisely not see as overwhelmingly interesting so far?

Because I am annoyed about that totally unreflected use of "feminity" vs ?what? "masculinity" in the discours about a very average literary character who only happens to be less frequent in a fantasy setting than in Charlotte Bronté (it was my mother who taught me to value her books). Sansa has a function here in not being very special. So her superelevation to a feminist icon is against the spirit of her literary character imo.

And because people want precisely her, for whatever reason, to be awesome they have glorify everything she is. Something that demands lengthy and complicated arguing since, well, Sansa simply is not more awesome than an average character invented by Martin. She is the simple girl next door thrown into a cruel world and more helpless than many of us would be, easy to relate to. Turning "feminine" into feminist is a high price to pay for making Sansa awesome.

[IRON BANK]

I felt the author gave Sansa to much credit for the start of her overall arc. Sansa at the brginning of the series was easily manipulted. Later on she learns how to apply the weapons the author qoutes from the beginning of this series.

[Addam_Marbrand]

I felt the author gave Sansa to much credit for the start of her overall arc. Sansa at the brginning of the series was easily manipulted. Later on she learns how to apply the weapons the author qoutes from the beginning of this series.

I feel people give too much credit to Sansa for things she has never done.