fionwe1987 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The one good thing is the acknowledgement that Season 2 was subpar. I mean it was utter shit, but I don't expect them to come out and say that... Yeah. Between the mocking handling of Mako's kissing Asami and then going back to Korra, and the complete dissing of "the Evil Unalaq" by Amon, they dissed Season 2 pretty well. Which was the only part that was very "Ember Island" like. The rest though... Seriously, they should have cut most of the Mako crap and taken the time to give us Varrick's backstory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Ok, we have an explanation now: http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/103173899927/a-few-preemptive-words-about-episode-408 In two words: budget cuts. Die, Nickelodeon, Die. That said, I do wish they'd gone another way. West Wing, for example, dealt with budget issues in Season 2 by coming up with the excellent "17 people". Just a Korra-Tenzin conversation where they hash out where Korra goes from here could have been spectacular. Honestly, though, I don't know if animating just Korra and Tenzin sitting and talking for 22 minutes is the same as 5 minutes of new animation mixed with old clips. Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Ok, we have an explanation now: http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/103173899927/a-few-preemptive-words-about-episode-408 In two words: budget cuts. Die, Nickelodeon, Die. That said, I do wish they'd gone another way. West Wing, for example, dealt with budget issues in Season 2 by coming up with the excellent "17 people". Just a Korra-Tenzin conversation where they hash out where Korra goes from here could have been spectacular. Honestly, though, I don't know if animating just Korra and Tenzin sitting and talking for 22 minutes is the same as 5 minutes of new animation mixed with old clips. Probably not. Somewhere, Spongebob is laughing maniacally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Dammit, hearing its budget cuts keeps me from fully hating this episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindly Old Man Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 At least the Varrick part of it was good. Him dissing the earlier part of the episode - "I spent the last few hours tuning out all these incredibly boring stories" - and Unalaq cracked me up, as did all the scenes on the phone. The first 2/3 sucked but it seems Nickelodeon is to blame for that. IMO it's better than no episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Since I watched the episode knowing what to expect, I actually liked it. The villain telephone conversation was one of the funniest things the series has ever done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_ Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Yeh sorry I blamed the creators :frown5: Die Nick die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzanadra Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Knowing why this was- the episode wasn't half bad. I liked how this episode poked fun at the series (love triangles, the forgotten season 1, season 2 in general etc.), much like Ember Island Players in TLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Knowing why this episode was the way it was....nah, doesn't make a difference to me, still hated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It was a kick in the balls as soon as I discovered what type of episode we were getting. The whole thing was forgettable besides them having some fun with Varrick's version of events and I agree that the show was very self deprecating wrt season 2 :) The only other thing I'm taking out of it is that Mako is going to die as I can't figure out why on earth a "Mako best of" was top of their list for rehashing footage. I guess Nickelodeon demanded the extra episode but part of me feels like if you give a crew 1 episode's less amount of cash then they should only have to provide 12 and not 13 episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It was a kick in the balls as soon as I discovered what type of episode we were getting. The whole thing was forgettable besides them having some fun with Varrick's version of events and I agree that the show was very self deprecating wrt season 2 :) The only other thing I'm taking out of it is that Mako is going to die as I can't figure out why on earth a "Mako best of" was top of their list for rehashing footage. I guess Nickelodeon demanded the extra episode but part of me feels like if you give a crew 1 episode's less amount of cash then they should only have to provide 12 and not 13 episodes. Yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindly Old Man Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It was a kick in the balls as soon as I discovered what type of episode we were getting. The whole thing was forgettable besides them having some fun with Varrick's version of events and I agree that the show was very self deprecating wrt season 2 :) The only other thing I'm taking out of it is that Mako is going to die as I can't figure out why on earth a "Mako best of" was top of their list for rehashing footage. I guess Nickelodeon demanded the extra episode but part of me feels like if you give a crew 1 episode's less amount of cash then they should only have to provide 12 and not 13 episodes. They could have done 12 episodes, but the crew would only have gotten paid for 12 episodes. They decided to pay the crew for 13 episodes, so they had to do one episode really cheaply to stay within their slashed budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apfeljunge Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I don't think making 12 episodes was ever an option for them. They have to fulfill their contract, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I don't think making 12 episodes was ever an option for them. They have to fulfill their contract, right? I'd hope said contract would also have a fixed income per season/episode? They could have done 12 episodes, but the crew would only have gotten paid for 12 episodes. They decided to pay the crew for 13 episodes, so they had to do one episode really cheaply to stay within their slashed budget. It's a bit late for me to get my head around whether the math for that statement adds up. Surely not doing the episode at all would have been the only way to pay them for "13" episodes? I understand the reason given in the link which was "having to fire people or do a cheap episode". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindly Old Man Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I'd hope said contract would also have a fixed income per season/episode? It's a bit late for me to get my head around whether the math for that statement adds up. Surely not doing the episode at all would have been the only way to pay them for "13" episodes? I understand the reason given in the link which was "having to fire people or do a cheap episode". In my head I had a really convoluted explanation for this, but after re-reading that blog post, I'm pretty sure I am wrong and you guys are right - it was either fire people or make a cheap episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I guess if they're contracted to make a certain number of episodes this was the only way round it with budgetary constraints. The sad thing is we're unlikely to get a 3rd series unless they can move most of those online watchers onto some platform that will generate revenue for Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Fuck Nickelodeon. They are responsible for most of this snoozefest. The creators however don't get a pass either. They chose to do 13 episodes instead of 12, because they wanted to pay their crew for 13 episodes. They also gave us the lamest 2/3 of an avatar episode I have ever seen. This was worse than the Great Divide by a mile. The only good thing about this episode was Varrick's recap, just because it was hilarious at times. Loved the phone joke and how they called out Unalaq for the piece of crap antagonist he was. Why couldn't they just have extended that part into a full episode. That would at least remedy some of the problems, although it still doesn't fix them all. I mean what idiot decides to do a recap episode at this point in the season. Why not in one of the earlier episodes, now is totally the wrong time. What really pisses me off is that we have to wait an extra week for the Kuvira-Toph battle we so desperatly need, all for this piece of shit. I was really looking forward to that episode. All in all, this season has become a letdown. Season three was awesome until the final episodes squandered lots of potential. This one is still better than season 1 and 2, but it's barely holding off season 1 imo. I sure hope book 4 manages to end with a satisfying finale, but since this universe has a problem when it comes to good final episodes, I'm not getting my hopes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Fuck Nickelodeon. They are responsible for most of this snoozefest. The creators however don't get a pass either. They chose to do 13 episodes instead of 12, because they wanted to pay their crew for 13 episodes. I assume they didn't have a choice when it comes to the number of episodes they had to produce. They could spend less money and effort on one, but they couldn't just deliver only 12 when they were contracted for 13. I mean what idiot decides to do a recap episode at this point in the season. The same people who did The Ember Island Players as the last episode before the big finale of Avatar: The Last Airbender? I think with the explanation given the episode is acceptable. Can't expect much good under those circumstances. If they botch the finale, that'll be cause to complain, but so far this season has been pretty good, so I'm not too worried about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 The same people who did The Ember Island Players as the last episode before the big finale of Avatar: The Last Airbender? The difference being that that episode actually fitted in with the others, was part of a season consisting of 21 episodes, consisted of new footage and was actually good. This episode was a boring intermezzo, part of a season of only 13 episodes and totally broke up the narrative drive without saying anything meaningful. I assume they didn't have a choice when it comes to the number of episodes they had to produce. They could spend less money and effort on one, but they couldn't just deliver only 12 when they were contracted for 13. No, they could have delivered only 12. Read the blog, they just didn't want to because of wages for their crew. And I can respect that, but that still won't stop me from calling a turd a turd. I think with the explanation given the episode is acceptable. Can't expect much good under those circumstances. If they botch the finale, that'll be cause to complain, but so far this season has been pretty good, so I'm not too worried about that. Of course this episode isn't acceptable, regardless of the reason. 2/3 of this episode were a waste of time, but they did manage to do something good with Bolin & Varrick. If the entire episode had that level of quality, it wouldn't have been such a bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 No, they could have delivered only 12. Read the blog, they just didn't want to because of wages for their crew. And I can respect that, but that still won't stop me from calling a turd a turd. Nope, what I'm reading is that they had less money ("almost to the tune of a whole episode's budget") and had to pick somewhere to save money. The options he gives are 1. let go a significant amount of people early and 2. do a clip show. He then states that, apart from not being a nice thing to do, option 1 carried other problems for the rest of the production, so they went with 2. The possibility of not doing the episode at all doesn't appear to have been there. Which makes sense, as my impression is that shows generally get ordered as batches of episodes. They don't give the showrunners some money and tell them to do as many episodes as they feel comfortable with, since the networks need to know how many episodes will be available to plan their programming schedule. The difference being that that episode actually fitted in with the others, was part of a season consisting of 21 episodes, consisted of new footage and was actually good. This episode was a boring intermezzo, part of a season of only 13 episodes and totally broke up the narrative drive without saying anything meaningful. Of course it's not a good episode, but if you're going to do a clip show there's not much choice where to put it, and just before the end of the season has tradition outside of Avatar. IIRC both Star Trek and Stargate did it, for example. Which makes a certain kind of sense, since you don't want to put it too early in the season run or you're going to lose viewers, and you don't want to put it last because you want viewers to come back next season. The difference here is that it's the last season, so putting it in at the end would presumably have been an option, but I'm rather glad this isn't the last episode of Korra ever, and I can certainly understand the creators wanting the show to go out on a higher note than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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