The Sopranos (Spoilers)

[One of Three]

I've just started watching the Sopranos, now onto season 2. What strikes me, reading up on it, is how because of this show (and maybe The Wire, though not seen it) we now have the far more darker and more stylish US TV series now: such as Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad or Boardwalk Empire etc. Also a major point as well is that they're far more shorter. Being for the UK, I'd rather have a short more condensed series/season, than the 20+ "if you through enough s*** at the wall, eventually some of it will stick" episode season the US TV show usually had (that's just me though).

Also, if they is any good reason for watching it, it's Meadow :drool:

[Isis]

I think the way Tony's mental health issues are explored through his visits to Dr Melfi is a brilliant way of adding extra depth and layers to a character. What springs to mind when I think of Tony being self-destructive is the relationship with his sister. That ep where he and Carm go up to stay with her and Bobby and they play monopoly and Tony keeps needling her until he gets a response. Also I think it was prior to that where Janice was all 'hey everyone I've done anger management therapy and now I'm super calm and chilled', and Tony went round there for dinner and again he just kept on at her until she snapped and wanted to stab him. I despised him so much at that moment! But at the same time you're unravelling it all and asking yourself why he has such an issue with Janice and can't stand for her to be happy.

Love Pine Barrens. Also the intervention episode. Again, Chris is quite a complex character too. You feel sorry for him at times. But other times you want him to die horribly.

I remember being so shocked and disturbed by what happened to Ade. :( What a shitty hand she got dealt. There was never any real way out for her right from the start.

Ok, that's it. I'm watching some Sopranos right now. As soon as I get out of this bath.

[Mya Stone]

Exactly, Isis. As soon as I'm done with my LOST rewatch, I'm going onto the Sopranos. :P

[red snow]

I've just started watching the Sopranos, now onto season 2. What strikes me, reading up on it, is how because of this show (and maybe The Wire, though not seen it) we now have the far more darker and more stylish US TV series now: such as Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad or Boardwalk Empire etc. Also a major point as well is that they're far more shorter. Being for the UK, I'd rather have a short more condensed series/season, than the 20+ "if you through enough s*** at the wall, eventually some of it will stick" episode season the US TV show usually had (that's just me though).

Also, if they is any good reason for watching it, it's Meadow :drool:

The Sopranos is why we have Game of Thrones, Breaking bad, The Wire etc. I think it was the second drama of its kind that HBO attempted. Oz was the first and while brilliant is too dark to have been a big hit. Sopranos on the other hand was massive and showed HBO and other Cable channels that there was a massive market for expensive, intelligently made TV shows about dark and complex characters. The critical praise also helped too and I think it was the fact that sopranos was almost treat like a 12 hour movie every year that drew many other film directors and screenwriters into the fold. Let alone actors realising how much publicity they could get from such endeavours.

So yeah we have Sopranos to thank for pretty much every good adult cable drama out there. If it had been a flop it may have been several more years before HBO or others gave it another go.

The wire came several years later and while a massive critical success was a drop in the ocean ratings wise in comparison to the Sopranos and while HBO likes acclaim it's the viewing figures (or ability to draw in subsribers) that's essential.

Which reminds me I've only got to season 2 on the complete box-set rewatch. Something to revisit during the summer slump.

[red snow]

Exactly, Isis. As soon as I'm done with my LOST rewatch, I'm going onto the Sopranos. :P

That is one hell of a shift in programming. You'll probably enjoy the lack of neverending mystery in Sopranos and while its ending is controversial it doesn't leave that retroactively series bittering feeling that Lost does :)

[Isis]

I just watched the first ep of S2. Some classic Tony and Janice interaction there. They both have this happy friendly facade, a no-bullshit attitude concealed behind that, and then some rage and evilness squashed down under that. They are so similar and yet Tony would never have it that they have so much in common.

I am waiting for the Lost boxset to drop under £40 (just purely on principle) before I buy it and do a full rewatch. Totally agree about the ending though. The Sopranos ending was actually better the second time I saw it. I'm not expecting the same thing to happen with the ending of Lost. Report back, Mya!

[Mya Stone]

That is one hell of a shift in programming. You'll probably enjoy the lack of neverending mystery in Sopranos and while its ending is controversial it doesn't leave that retroactively series bittering feeling that Lost does :)

red snow,

I love the Sopranos. I've seen the entire series. And I'm one of the "ending apologists" for both shows. :lol:

ETA: Isis, I will. I'm almost done with Season 5. I'm trying to look at it as a character study instead of a Sci-Fi/mystery/fantasy show. :P

[One of Three]

I took me a long time to get around to watching Lost as I disliked the first season and only got round to Season 2/3/4/5 much later after my mates where obsessed by it. With season 1 being 80% character establishing, 10% character back story and 10% plot, season 2 was far better because it actually looked like the plot was going somewhere, something interesting was going. this continued in season 3 and for the most part of season 4 when towards the end it was quite obvious they were running out of ideas. Season 5 was a let down and I'm going to bother with season 6.

Oz was the first and while brilliant is too dark to have been a big hit.

I've always wanted to see Oz, but haven't got round to it yet, think it's one to catch in the future.

With the Sopranos, looking at it with a British objective eye, I think what made it popular was not only that it was TV that was rivalling what you would see in the cinema in terms with it's darkness and complexity in it's characters, but also I think it is representative of America or American ideals (The American dream), but it highlights the problems that America has such as violence in the society. I think this is reflect in shows that are on now such as Breaking Bad and Boardwalk Empire, trying to get success, by any means necessary. Stop me though if I'm wrong though.

[Bronn Stone]

I remember being so shocked and disturbed by what happened to Ade. :( What a shitty hand she got dealt. There was never any real way out for her right from the start.

Ade dealt her own hand. She knew the life - her family was connected via the Apriles. But she was far enough away she COULD have walked. And didn't. Girl that pretty can always get a hostess job someplace that is NOT mob connected. And working hard (which she did) could have gotten her on her way. Instead, she took the easy way out, despite knowing who and what Christopher was.

[Calibandar]

Things I really liked in this marvellous series.

• The sense of drama and tension, plotwise yes but also just character moments
  
• Tony is such a great character. Gandolfini has not been able to recapture that in his movie appearances since.
  
• The terrible dynamic between Tony and Carmela.
  
• Chris, and in addition, everything about Chris and Adriana
  
• Furio.
  
• The Tony vs Melfi sessions. Generally speaking these were excellent.
  
• The Richie Aprile character, as well as Mad Raplhie. Also that New York mob boss was great.
  

But mainly it was just so addicting to watch, so worth rewatching as well. If I didn't have a thousand other things to do already, I'd go do it right now.

• 
  

[Crown]

The Valley by Los Lobos, at the end of Walk Like A Man: stunning. Best scene in the show.

it's Chris repairing the tree in his yard, fyi.

EDIT: Carmela and Tony showoff in Whitecaps might be better.

[red snow]

red snow,

I love the Sopranos. I've seen the entire series. And I'm one of the "ending apologists" for both shows. :lol:

ETA: Isis, I will. I'm almost done with Season 5. I'm trying to look at it as a character study instead of a Sci-Fi/mystery/fantasy show. :P

I really liked the ending of Sopranos. Not so much "lost". I think Sopranos had the benefit of it was never heading towards some big finale where things were expected to be resolved. While mystery shows can be damn addictive I think they set themselves up for unsatisfying endings whereas shows that are just about the characters and their dealings don't have to worry quite so much.

Oz is definitely worth a look. It does get ridiculously silly in the last season and a half but the first 3 seasons are excellent. It has the most repulsive cast of characters I've seen in a show and the weird thing is that you still root for some of them. It's also amazing to see all the great actors in Oz that are now really recognisable - JK Simmons, Christopher Meloni, a whole bunch of "lost" actors and Edie Falco before she became Carmella. I really urge anyone who enjoys HBO drama to try it out as it's great stuff. It used to be shown in the UK at midnight on Thursdays and I wound up watching it live I was that addicted to it - I was a student so it didn't matter too much.

Speaking of Carmella I found her such a horrible character. Mainly because she knew exactly who Tony was but was happy to live the life it provided. She also had no problem using this knowledge to get her own way with others. I did enjoy her more when she was messing with Tony but I guess her hypocrisy was more annoying than Tony and the others who at least knew what they were.

[Mathis]

Ralph showing you he's a piece of shit for burning down the stables.

No doubt that Ralph is the single most revolting human being on a show full of them, but did he burn down the stable? Its been a while since I've seen that episode but IIRC Chase and co were very careful not to resolve that (like they did with so many storylines I suppose; what ever happened to the Russian?).

Ralph denied it from first to last while not pretending that he gave much of a shit, and his denials seemed plausible. I always thought that Paulie had just as much motive as Ralph.

Anyway, great, great show. Lots of amazing episodes but for sheer enjoyment nothing tops the Pine Barrens:

Tony: [over the phone] It's a bad connection so I'm gonna talk fast! The guy you're looking for is an ex-commando! He killed sixteen Chechen rebels single-handed!

Paulie: Get the fuck outta here.

Tony: Yeah. Nice, huh? He was with the Interior Ministry. Guy's like a Russian green beret. He can not come back and tell this story. You understand?

Paulie: I hear you.[hangs up]

Paulie, to Christopher: You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.

Christopher [puzzled] :His house looked like shit.

And my appreciation for the later seasons has grown since its finished. The structural problems are still there but I'm better able to focus on the rest now that I'm not actively hoping for something else.

[Mark Antony]

Easily my favorite TV show of all time. If I had to absolutely choose the best show, I would probably have to go for The Wire, but I enjoy The Sopranos far more and I've re-watched the episodes many more times. I also seriously believe that it has one of the best endings to any television show or movie ever made.

I really hate to sound like "that guy", and this is truly one of the only circumstances where I would ever say it, but I honestly believe that a large portion of the people who think the ending to The Sopranos sucked just genuinely didn't get it. I'm not saying that everyone who didn't like it also didn't get it. Not saying that at all. But I think there numbers are there. That final scene is one of the most brilliantly choreographed and orchestrated "death scenes" ever put onto film in my opinion. They completely subvert what would have otherwise been a fairly typical ending to a gangster story.

I agree with Harry the Heir in that I think the early season six episodes are actually underrated, because they're incredibly important to Tony's arc throughout the remainder of the show, and so much of it ties in with the final episode(s). That being said, I do think season six would have better served if it was just one, normal-sized season. I think they lost some focus with the second half of 6A, and even a little bit in the middle of 6B, all of which would have been fixed by trimming the fat and condensing the storylines.

Great post and i agree on all accounts, Sopranos has the most replay value of any show i have seen. I do think Season 6b is the strongest closing 9 episodes of any series ever though IMO.

"Chasing it" is the only 6b episode that i wouldn't rate at a A+

[svardineni]

Speaking of Carmella I found her such a horrible character. Mainly because she knew exactly who Tony was but was happy to live the life it provided. She also had no problem using this knowledge to get her own way with others. I did enjoy her more when she was messing with Tony but I guess her hypocrisy was more annoying than Tony and the others who at least knew what they were.

I couldn't stand Carmela. She makes Skylar (from Breaking Bad) look good and that's saying something. While Skylar became privy to Walt's illegal activities well after marriage, Carmela knew from the very start she was marrying into a mob family.

[Mark Antony]

2 of the best acted scenes in TV history

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npX1ZOnzcCk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St3D1iqumpk

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Speaking of Carmella I found her such a horrible character. Mainly because she knew exactly who Tony was but was happy to live the life it provided. She also had no problem using this knowledge to get her own way with others. I did enjoy her more when she was messing with Tony but I guess her hypocrisy was more annoying than Tony and the others who at least knew what they were.

Tony had no idea what he was. He knew he was in the mafia, yes, but Carmela knew that she was a mob wife. Tony never really engaged with the fact that he was a cancer on nearly everybody he met. As late as season 6.5, he was insisting to Melfi that he was a "good person", which is plainly not the case. He kept saying that he loved Christopher like a son, but he constantly undermines Chris' recovery, insults him, uses him, and when he gets the idea that Christopher might--at some imagined point in the future--pose a risk of flipping to the Feds, he murders him. He plainly believes that he loves AJ and Meadow too, but he's the primary reason why both of them end up becoming morally compromised adults, against what he believes that he wants for them. He constantly lies to himself about how he grew up too, blaming everything on his mother and letting his father off the hook. For that matter, Melfi ends up ceasing treatment of Tony because he was operating there under false pretenses, using her to help plan his strategic decisions without any real desire to change.

Carmela is a hypocrite, make no mistake. But so is Tony, and he was a murderous sociopath besides.

[Tears of Lys]

Great assessment, Harry.

This makes me want to rewatch the series too.

[red snow]

Tony had no idea what he was. He knew he was in the mafia, yes, but Carmela knew that she was a mob wife. Tony never really engaged with the fact that he was a cancer on nearly everybody he met. As late as season 6.5, he was insisting to Melfi that he was a "good person", which is plainly not the case. He kept saying that he loved Christopher like a son, but he constantly undermines Chris' recovery, insults him, uses him, and when he gets the idea that Christopher might--at some imagined point in the future--pose a risk of flipping to the Feds, he murders him. He plainly believes that he loves AJ and Meadow too, but he's the primary reason why both of them end up becoming morally compromised adults, against what he believes that he wants for them. He constantly lies to himself about how he grew up too, blaming everything on his mother and letting his father off the hook. For that matter, Melfi ends up ceasing treatment of Tony because he was operating there under false pretenses, using her to help plan his strategic decisions without any real desire to change.

Carmela is a hypocrite, make no mistake. But so is Tony, and he was a murderous sociopath besides.

Very true. I think I meant it more in terms of their actions. Tony gets his hands dirty to provide them with all that money. Carmella just sits around being bored with her kept lifestyle. At some point in her life her goal was to hook up with someone who'd give her a life of comfort and she's mad at the fact it's not everything it's cracked up to be. I can't remember all the details (haven't watched it since it aired) but I'm sure there were several occasions where she could have walked and she stays more for the financial comfort (and probably the kids). In defence of the character i never had a problem with her affairs other than the fact she knew she was putting their lives at risk by doing so. Tony did it all the time so it seemed "fair"

[Antonius Pius]

Excellent point about Tony's hypocrisy, Harry.

No doubt that Ralph is the single most revolting human being on a show full of them, but did he burn down the stable?

Whether Ralph burned down the stable was left in the air. Tony getting murderous about it says as much about Tony as it does about Ralph (firestarter or not).

Ralphie beating that poor stripper girl to death was revolting. They showed us how fucked up her life already was, and then she gets killed over absolutely nothing.

Lots of amazing episodes but for sheer enjoyment nothing tops the Pine Barrens:

Tony: [over the phone] It's a bad connection so I'm gonna talk fast! The guy you're looking for is an ex-commando! He killed sixteen Chechen rebels single-handed!

Paulie: Get the fuck outta here.

Tony: Yeah. Nice, huh? He was with the Interior Ministry. Guy's like a Russian green beret. He can not come back and tell this story. You understand?

Paulie: I hear you.[hangs up]

Paulie, to Christopher: You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.

Christopher [puzzled] :His house looked like shit.

I laughed myself silly at that scene.