Nirolo asked where did GRRM confirm this 'fact'. Two people replied he confirmed it in the app. In both cases the inference is that the App is a canon resource, and that everything in it is stated by GRRM.
In fact, the app is put together by fans, not GRRM. He vetted it but its highly unlkely that he checked every single little detail. Anything 'new' in that app is written by not-GRRM and may or may not have been noticed by him.
I get the sense that you have historically dug your heels in about The App for whatever reason, but let me reiterate where I disagree and try to provide some additional context for Nirolo, then I will drop it.
Again, never said it was cannon, found in the text nor stated in any outlet by GRRM. Nirolo specifically asked the source of the statement that Rhaegar died with Lyanna's name on his lips. Strictly speaking, the source is the GRRM-vetted/sanctioned (he advertised it on his blog) aSoIaF app entry for 'Rhaegar Targaryen'
. Whatever 'vetted', 'approved', pushed on GRRM's blog may mean, the app's accuracy and veracity seem to be above the aSoIaF Wiki and fanfic. Otherwise, why charge $$ for it?
But my primary problem, and I admit I'm a little taken back that this is coming from you Corbon -- someone whose ideas I've always found to be most articulated and well-reasoned on the subject of RLJ, is that the reveals re. Rhaegar and Lyanna in the app are not significantly informative to the the whole concept of RLJ, namely that:
- Dayne and Whent were present/participated in Rhaegar's 'abduction' of Lyanna;
- Rhaegar whispered 'Lyanna' with his last breath.
Its a tiny, almost insignificant fact deeply buried in a bit of background story. It only appears 'essential' when nitpicking down tiny details in a broad and clear overall narrative, and only came up becuase a poster with limited grasp of the essentials is trying to argue a dubious alternate theory.
These points are 'tiny'? This information is not in the text but to say that the 'facts' revealed in the app are not essential and their presence in the app is because they are overlooked by GRRM is to ignore fundamental components of his well-wrought RLJ presentation.
Try to unpack it and one finds more details about highly contested points re. the KG's involvement and Rhaegar's attitude about Lyanna. The not-quite-cannon-App now links two KG (Dayne and Whent) to the mysterious circumstances surrounding Lyanna's disappearance and the same two KG who end up defending Lyanna and Jon. This detail indicates there may be something more to Dayne's and Whent's particular relationship to Rhaegar and their involvement in his endgame with Lyanna. We're not contesting how a particular banner is described, right? This has got to be better than ass-pull speculation, even if GRRM only obliquely knew/approved the content of the app, right?
Add to this the statement that Rhaegar's final moments were spent whispering Lyanna's name, which further fleshes Dany's HotUD visions. We can, at the very least, extrapolate that Rhaegar had concern for the fate, nay perhaps, love for the Wolf Girl?
Use the App for adding to or fleshing out theories, fine, but using it as a primary resource when people question where 'facts' come from isn't right, IMO. And I felt Nirolo had the right to know that. GRRM didn't provide/create that fact (unless it came from somewhere else first, like a SSM), he gave a broad vet to a huge resource which has that fact buried deep in its midst. Its not an essential fact.
Nirolo asked where the Last Words of Rhaegar factoid came from and the source was qualified correctly and provided. I think the implications of these points are too thematically telling and important to be mere oversights despite the fact that they are as of yet not in novel text or in a SSM.
Perhaps there is some source that can tell us exactly to what extent the information in the app has some authority or not. Otherwise, I'm done discussing the application of it.
Edited by UVA, 16 April 2013 - 01:58 AM.