Surprising Lannister ancestor?

[DireMaker]

It's JON"S PARENTS C'mon guys......

Edit: Woops, was in the WAAY wrong page... lol.

Tyrions a Targ theory would come to mind, not to mention my own belif that it's JAMIE and CERSEI who are targs, and Tyrion is Tywins' only "true" son....

[binga]

To add to my Aegon theory, it is said on the wiki that Aegon visited some Westerosi lands while concealing his true identity before the war. He could have sired a bastard during his time exploring Westeros.

[Lord Varys]

According to Jeor Mormont, Daeron's daughter was considered to be a claimant to the Iron Throne upon Maekar's death. She would not have had any claim had she not been his legitimate daughter.

The fact that she was somewhat sick - perhaps even permanently damaged due to her father's lifestyle - could very well indicate that she died early.

On the other hand, the specifics of the outbreak of the Reyne-Tarbeck-rebellion were never actually discussed. And we only recently learned how closely related the Targaryens and Baratheons are. Sure, the Lannisters could also be this closely related, but there are some points that speak against that:

Tywin's desperate attempts to marry his daughter to a Targaryen prince. He would have had much less reason to do this if he was himself half- or quarter-Targaryen. More importantly, Aerys would have had little or no reason to reject his offer. Especially since he seemed to have wanted to marry Rhaegar to a bride with Valyrian blood.

The Lannisters would have their own claim to the Iron Throne. This would have featured into Jaime's dreams about making his relationship to Cersei official and giving the Iron Throne to Tywin. If they would have had Targaryen blood, they could have pulled this off. And Tywin would have had no problems at all to become the founder of a new Targaryen dynasty.

[J. Stargaryen]

According to Jeor Mormont, Daeron's daughter was considered to be a claimant to the Iron Throne upon Maekar's death. She would not have had any claim had she not been his legitimate daughter.

The fact that she was somewhat sick - perhaps even permanently damaged due to her father's lifestyle - could very well indicate that she died early.

On the other hand, the specifics of the outbreak of the Reyne-Tarbeck-rebellion were never actually discussed. And we only recently learned how closely related the Targaryens and Baratheons are. Sure, the Lannisters could also be this closely related, but there are some points that speak against that:

Tywin's desperate attempts to marry his daughter to a Targaryen prince. He would have had much less reason to do this if he was himself half- or quarter-Targaryen. More importantly, Aerys would have had little or no reason to reject his offer. Especially since he seemed to have wanted to marry Rhaegar to a bride with Valyrian blood.

The Lannisters would have their own claim to the Iron Throne. This would have featured into Jaime's dreams about making his relationship to Cersei official and giving the Iron Throne to Tywin. If they would have had Targaryen blood, they could have pulled this off. And Tywin would have had no problems at all to become the founder of a new Targaryen dynasty.

Where do you get this information that she was sick?

I completely disagree with your take here. In fact, having a recent Targaryen ancestor would provide ample reason for Tywin to think he would definitely be able to marry Cersei to Rhaegar. Aerys's refusal would fit well with his paranoia and jealousy of Tywin, imo. Though I prefer not to pretend to know the minds of fictional characters.

Now, that's not to say that I've definitely got the right of it. You bring up some fair points. There would be a bit of explaining to do if the feeble-witted daughter is the ancestor. But you know what, same goes for any of the other popular candidates; Stark, other Targaryen, Reyne, Tarbeck, etc. None of those ideas is unblemished, so to speak. Maybe that's what is meant by surprising Lannister ancestor.

[Mayura]

How about Shiera Seastar? Even afterreading the Dunk and Egg stories, we know quite a lot about her brothers but not about her.

All the clues we have are: she had one blue eye and one green eye (Tyrion has one green eye and one black eye - is it really black as in missing the pupil (? spell) or very very dark blue?), she was very beautiful and had long curly hair with a streak of gold (it could explain Cersei and Jaime's incredible beauty), she was also a very intelligent girl (spoke several languages, had an extensive library. Tywin + Tyrion could also have had unherited this intelligence).

I know it is 95% unlikely as Shiera never married and I doubt a bastard unherited Casterly Rock, but I thought it would be a surprising and useful plot.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

I really think you should stop speculating about the Great Houses of Westeros. The Lannister have been the richest house in Westeros for quite some time. Any ancestor from a Great House would not be surprising, since it would make a lot of sense for them, to marry into house Lannister.

I really think, we should at the smaller houses, if not even the common folk.

A Reyne would be way more surprising than any one from one of the great houses.

Imo a common woman as Tywin's mom would be most shoking. Especially with the way he reacts to Tyrion's first marriage.

If Tytos was actually a third son, who came to the lord's seat by chance, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

[J. Stargaryen]

I really think you should stop speculating about the Great Houses of Westeros. The Lannister have been the richest house in Westeros for quite some time. Any ancestor from a Great House would not be surprising, since it would make a lot of sense for them, to marry into house Lannister.

I really think, we should at the smaller houses, if not even the common folk.

A Reyne would be way more surprising than any one from one of the great houses.

Imo a common woman as Tywin's mom would be most shoking. Especially with the way he reacts to Tyrion's first marriage.

If Tytos was actually a third son, who came to the lord's seat by chance, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

Well, it's a lot easier to speculate about the great houses since they're much more well known than the lesser ones. But I do agree with the point that there are some inherent negatives involved in theorizing a marriage with a Stark/Targaryen, etc.

A marriage with (former) Westerlands houses like Reyne and Tarbeck would actually be expected, as it seems normal for the great houses to marry with their bannermen. Of course the surprise would stem from the rebellion.

Part of the reason I find the possibility of a Lannister-Targaryen marriage appealing is the parallels that exist throughout the story between the two families. The ones that are often interpreted to mean that Aerys is the father of either the twins or Tyrion. I think a lot of people would prefer this explanation to that one.

[Tim Thomason]

Perhaps, Tywin's mother is just a noblewoman of House Reed, that Ser Tytos met and wooed at a tourney early in his youth. It might explain Tyrion's size, and opens up possibilities for future Reed-like abilities to enter into the Lannister line.

[KingMaekarWasHere]

I think that the ancestor might be one of Egg's two sisters. I believe one had the name Dhea or Dhae but don't hold me to the names, because the two of them weren't mentioned that much. I think that it's an interesting conclusion, and would explain why the Baratheon-Lannister marriage really worked politically. And it might also explain why some people who suspected Cersei's infidelity had little problem with Joff as king, because he was also part Targaryen through his mother not just his father. So even if he was thought not to be Robert's, he would still have a much more significant claim than someone with no Targaryen ancestry.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I think it could be Shiera Seastar hence Tyrion's eyes.

[Castellan]

If Duncan was somehow an ancestor of the recent Lannisters then Jaime and Brienne would be some sort of cousins (second cousins?)!

[KingMaekarWasHere]

After reading the Sworn Sword, I'm thinking that Tywin's maternal grandfather may have been Ser Bennis of the Brown Shield. By physical descriptions, like cold green eyes that shine, I think that there may be a connection there, but the two character's mannerisms are very much alike as well.

[Tim Thomason]

If Duncan was somehow an ancestor of the recent Lannisters then Jaime and Brienne would be some sort of cousins (second cousins?)!

"So?" asks Jaime Lannister.

[Russo]

Not sure if this had been mentioned but it just came to me.

What if its Maester Luwin? He may be Tywins cousin or something, perhaps Joanna's brother.

His age seems like it would be possible. That would definitely be surprising, and as far as I know we have no info on where he was from.

[Maia]

What if its Maester Luwin? He may be Tywins cousin or something, perhaps Joanna's brother.

No, he said somewhere that he grew up on the banks of the White Knife, which is a river flowing into White Harbour, so he was a northerner by birth. The-win ending names are not restricted to the Lannisters, as also seen with Harwin a former guard at Winterfell, now a member of BwB.

I am currently re-reading the Dunk and Egg stories and am halfway through "The Sworn Sword", and I have to wonder if it isn't Lady Rohanne Webber. Her philosophy on how to retain the reins of power was quite similar to Tywin's (with fire and sword and reputation of being fearsome), she was a red-head with grey-green eyes and she was in friendly correspondence with a Lannister.

Maybe she had children with Ser Eustace and managed to leverage her connection to Ser Gerold into fostering of her daughter at CR and a marriage to the third son, who wasn't supposed to inherit...

[J. Stargaryen]

No, he said somewhere that he grew up on the banks of the White Knife, which is a river flowing into White Harbour, so he was a northerner by birth. The-win ending names are not restricted to the Lannisters, as also seen with Harwin a former guard at Winterfell, now a member of BwB.

I am currently re-reading the Dunk and Egg stories and am halfway through "The Sworn Sword", and I have to wonder if it isn't Lady Rohanne Webber. Her philosophy on how to retain the reins of power was quite similar to Tywin's (with fire and sword and reputation of being fearsome), she was a red-head with grey-green eyes and she was in friendly correspondence with a Lannister.

Maybe she had children with Ser Eustace and managed to leverage her connection to Ser Gerold into a fostering of her daughter at CR and a marriage to the third son, who wasn't supposed to inherit...

I considered the Lady Rohanne option myself. It would be a nice touch, imo. I liked her.

[RumHam]

No, he said somewhere that he grew up on the banks of the White Knife, which is a river flowing into White Harbour, so he was a northerner by birth.

I think you may be confusing Luwin with the Septon.

“The gods will take me when they see fit,” Septon Chayle said quietly, “though I scarcely think it likely that I’ll drown, Bran. I grew up on the banks of the White Knife, you know. I’m quite the strong swimmer.”

[Bael's Bastard]

Statistically Walder Frey has to have a decent shot.

I've always wondered about Pycelle's relation to the Lannisters.

[Danelle]

Statistically Walder Frey has to have a decent shot.

I don't think that it is likely.

The Freys are wealthy and powerful but Great Houses and important nobles never considered Freys to be an old House.

Most of the nobles looked down upon the Freys, Tytos agreed to give Genna to Emmon, only because he felt sorry for lord Walder.

On the other hand, this could make it surprising. If Tywin's mother was a Frey, for example, that would be unexpected.

Still, if there was a connection between Freys and Lannisters, it would have been mentioned..

Perhaps the surprising ancestor isn't just a random Lady from a noble House or a whore or a baseborn woman but a minor historical character.

Delena Florent gave birth to Edrik Storm, but nevertheless she married Hosman Norcross, one of her father's household knights.

Perhaps one of Aegon's mistresses, ended up marrying Tytos's father or grandfather.

[Bael's Bastard]

Yeah, Walder Frey was just a bad joke.

Did GRRM state that a surprising Lannister ancestor would be revealed in this? Do you know how it was worded, or have a link to the original statement?

I'm really looking forward to this book.