I have come to a conclusion on book-Dany

[WinterisAlwaysComing]

I agree that show Dany is a snoozefest compared to book Dany.

I love that we spend as much time as we do in King's Landing. The most interesting dynamics are there.

I don't need to spend any more time watching Bran talk to trees or Dany spout drama school lines about "justice."

[Van West]

I agree that show Dany is a snoozefest compared to book Dany.

I love that we spend as much time as we do in King's Landing. The most interesting dynamics are there.

I don't need to spend any more time watching Bran talk to trees or Dany spout drama school lines about "justice."

Yeah, Shae sure was engaging.

And Olenna talking about a whole lot of nothing is fun too.

[Nictarion]

Yeah, Shae sure was engaging.

And Olenna talking about a whole lot of nothing is fun too.

Also, if we never get another brothel scene it'd be fine with me. I'd much rather see Dany, or Bran.

[LordStoneheart]

Actually I think her "whitewashedness" is far overrated by fans on here. I know a lot of people who are show-only viewers who think she's quite monstrous.

I think the producers have done Dany's personal struggle well in S1, but past that it's hard to give her any "development" if we're not privy to her thoughts. That's the only reason the characters come across as flat. Good TV and Film are always inferior to good literature.

[Petyr Patter]

I haven't liked Danaerys since the 1990's when she immolated a rape victim. Which she also did in the show, but I've never heard anybody but me criticize her for it.

That being stated (and ignored from here on out), I do think she's become a one note character on the show. Now, a one note character is not necessarily a bad thing. They are great for recurring gags. Also with a large enough cast it is useful to keep some characters simple and straightforward.

Unfortunately, Danaerys is pretty much all that is happening in Essos right now. Her advisers offer single lines of exposition, and Missendei shows more personality than the rest combined. Almost all Danaerys's scenes are the same: super confident woman makes proclamations. "Don't make me wait again, or you're fired." "I will like look at them all before you bury them." "I am not your enemy, your masters are."

[Koi No Yokan]

The book characters are more developed because they are literally POV characters. We are in their heads, we know their thoughts, their emotions, and their memories. We know what drives them, because GRRM actually tells us. On TV, we have only a third person perspective. We have to infer what is going on in their heads from their words and their actions.

The book characters are also more developed because we've had thousands more pages of story to deal with. The TV show is only ten episodes a season, and those get diced up between characters.

Actually I think her "whitewashedness" is far overrated by fans on here. I know a lot of people who are show-only viewers who think she's quite monstrous.

I think the producers have done Dany's personal struggle well in S1, but past that it's hard to give her any "development" if we're not privy to her thoughts. That's the only reason the characters come across as flat. Good TV and Film are always inferior to good literature.

This and this.

Show Dany hasn't even reached her book counterpart's story yet, realising the impact of her conquering and the hardships of ruling. Her struggles will happen in the show soon enough.

[Annara Snow]

Actually I think her "whitewashedness" is far overrated by fans on here. I know a lot of people who are show-only viewers who think she's quite monstrous.

I think the producers have done Dany's personal struggle well in S1, but past that it's hard to give her any "development" if we're not privy to her thoughts. That's the only reason the characters come across as flat. Good TV and Film are always inferior to good literature.

I don't get the "whitewashing" argument at all. She has done all the violent/murderous things she did in the books, and they even added more murderous/vengeful acts that she didn't do in the books (season 2, locking Doreah and Xaro).

Season 1 Dany arc was well done. Season 2 made-up Dany arc was atrocious, made her look annoying and bratty, and "WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS??!!" became a running joke. The current arc in Slaver's Bay suffers from the lack of Dany's thoughts as well as from repetitiveness - in the books, it takes place over fewer chapters; in the show, it looks like she's taking one city, then another, then another, over a period of, what, 13 episodes? Which is a perfectly understandable criticism I've seen in some of the show reviews: repetitive and too black and white, not morally ambiguous as the rest of the show.

But this is going to change in the rest of her arc when they start showing the problems the cities are facing after she freed the slaves and Dany's troubles in ruling - her internal doubts should also be more obvious when she isn't sacking cities and giving speeches, but locking up dragons and making bad compromises. Which looks to be starting since the middle of this season.

[Daske]

Agree with much being said. Immolation and immurement are horrible ways to execute people. Danny is overall still seen by viewers overall as a force for good, however she is clearly very ruthless when she needs to be, and the show has openly displayed this. And given a little more time the serious consequences of some of her rasher decisions will be shown soon enough.

Also, whether viewers think her crusade is morally acceptable or not (and most would think it is), the accusations of one-dimenionalness are ignoring her growth from weak political pawn to conqueror and liberator over the first few seasons. In many ways, bar Theon, she is the characater in the whole show that has changed the most so far, at least on a par with Arya.

[The Fourth Head]

When Dany is being successful, she is criticised for being one dimensional. When Dany is not doing well, she is criticised for getting stuck in a rut.

This seems very unfair. For those who hold this POV, it may be time to accept that:

a) probably nothing will satisfy you with this character and

b) you can't be right all the time

In the books, at this stage, there was little nuance: I don't see that the show is any more one-dimensional than the books at this point.

it was fun to see this innocent girl continue on her arc- the one who was sold as a sex slave to a barbarian grow into an avenging angel. Watching the show feels the same for me as reading the books: everything in westeros has turned to crap- and Dany is the only thing that seems to be going right. She is a balm, a ray of hope. That's the way I see it.

Obviously, a series on from "Dracharys" we are getting used to it. Another city, another set of evil slavers to overwhelm. We have seen it twice before. The nuance is yet to come. I see they have pushed the Jorah storyline back to simplify it in the show. I think fans are going to be hit with a whole load of "nuance" very soon, and probably wont like it. What fans call "nuance" criitics will call "regression".

meh.

[Batman]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon but the actress? I actually thought she was not half bad in the first season (not great, not top ten but not bad). But the last couple of seasons have been bathroom breaks. Sometimes people forget how much a great actor means to the success of the character. The writers have not helped but if the actor is good enough they can make something out of it. One example was James Marsters. He got generic villain lines during his first few episodes of Buffy but he was so good and so compelling that he made the fans love the character. It may be harsh, but its part of it.

[The Fourth Head]

Its a shame you aren't enjoying Emilia Clarke's performances. Personally, I found her "Nem-evi-tas!" line the best delivered line of episode 3 season 4. It sent chills down my spine, which, for a made-up word in a language I don't know, is pretty awesome. Her best material is when she is speaking a language none of us speak, so it's not an easy gig. That her speech to the Meereeneese could move me so much is a testament to her acting performance.

He face when that guy was urinating in her general direction was priceless too. I think she's great. I can't wait to see how she deals with the whole shedload of nuances about to come flying at her from every angle.

[SerArthurHeath]

What the hell is wrong with TV Sansa?' I think Sophie has nailed Sansa!

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

I haven't liked Danaerys since the 1990's when she immolated a rape victim. Which she also did in the show, but I've never heard anybody but me criticize her for it.

That being stated (and ignored from here on out), I do think she's become a one note character on the show. Now, a one note character is not necessarily a bad thing. They are great for recurring gags. Also with a large enough cast it is useful to keep some characters simple and straightforward.

Unfortunately, Danaerys is pretty much all that is happening in Essos right now. Her advisers offer single lines of exposition, and Missendei shows more personality than the rest combined. Almost all Danaerys's scenes are the same: super confident woman makes proclamations. "Don't make me wait again, or you're fired." "I will like look at them all before you bury them." "I am not your enemy, your masters are."

if you are referring to MMD, Dany had saved her from further rape and murder; even though it was standard practice in warfare of the period. Dany blamed her, perhaps harshly by modern standards, for the death of her child and husband and that was the reason for throwing her on the pyre. The price of killing a prince is death, Dany needed a sacrifice, to help raise the dragons, and surley a magical one could only be a bonus. If MMD was going anyway, it would save an innocent from sacrifice. Her previous status as a rape victim was neither here nor there.

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

I saw season 1 without having read the books, like a lot of others. I had thought that Dany was portrayed really well, but the books are much better, even if she is dragging her heels a bit. I think the delays are needed really, because she has not really had any instruction in leadership, apart from Viseris telling her it was a right, and Drogo killing anything that moved.

that is why the show made the point of having Tywin take Tommen away from Cersei at the side of Joff's corpse, telling him that he needed wisdom, not to do things like his brother, (and the subtext was not like your mother) her advisors at the moment are more at home with swords and fighting (Barristan and Daario), and Mooning after her like a puppy dog (Mormont). She needs to learn from experience.

Having said that. I thought ep 4-3 scenes outside Meereen were some of the best in the episode, and the best Dany has had for a while

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

Also, if we never get another brothel scene it'd be fine with me. I'd much rather see Dany, or Bran.

they really aren't needed anymore are they?

the brothel scenes I mean, Dany and Bran are still quite central to the story

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

TV characters are always going to be less developed than their book counterparts.

[King of the Road]

Tywin is better than the book version, as is Jorah.

Bran is probably worse on the show, I mean he isn't a joy in the books, but at least GRRM can fall back on to interesting prophecies.

[Angmar]

I'd rather take more Bran or Dany over all of the brothel scenes.

I still can't believe they make those scenes with the excuse of "well we're catering to the audience": Seriously, after four seasons, part of the audience will be nerds who watch this show only to fap? Losers.

[El Guapo]

Its a shame you aren't enjoying Emilia Clarke's performances. Personally, I found her "Nem-evi-tas!" line the best delivered line of episode 3 season 4. It sent chills down my spine, which, for a made-up word in a language I don't know, is pretty awesome. Her best material is when she is speaking a language none of us speak, so it's not an easy gig. That her speech to the Meereeneese could move me so much is a testament to her acting performance.

He face when that guy was urinating in her general direction was priceless too. I think she's great. I can't wait to see how she deals with the whole shedload of nuances about to come flying at her from every angle.

Oh I agree. I think Emilia is doinga fantastic job.

[Nictarion]

Tywin is better than the book version, as is Jorah.

These are probably the only characters I prefer the show version over the books. Dance especially has done a great job as Tywin.