Lady Olenna Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Meera survived because she is Bran' s sweetheart. I think we will discover that Jojen sacrifices himself (be it paste or otherwise) to ensure Bran's survival. They had best not kill off Hodor :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 It seems to show that Jojen's primary role was in simply getting Bran to the cave, and that after he's pretty incidental (or Jojen paste is, God forbid, actually a thing and D&D said, "Fuck that, just kill him before they get to the cave"). Maybe the question you should actually be asking is not, "Why did Jojen die at this point?" but rather, "Why is Meera still alive?" So true. Point to the Dark Sister theory, perhaps...? :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockroi Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Jojen did plenty in the books. He's a pretty important character. Just 'cause you're not a fan of him doesn't make him useless. I didn't say he was useless in the books; I said he was insufferable. He was always right, always too wise for his own good etc. I just hate that type of character who has this inborn ability and everyone is just an idiot compared to him. And he WAS important in the books, but to me he was too important the way his powers just overwhelmed any other avenue of knowledge or growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwesteros Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Well, we knew his arc was coming to an end, after all, but it was really hard to see him killed by White Walkers, or wights, whatever they were, hard to see him killed violently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerl Targaryen Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 So, after the last Game of Thrones episode can we dismiss the Jojen paste theory?No. Show canon isn't the same as book canon. Jojen's death in the show has no impact on his fate in the books. That said, I think that theory can be dismissed simply because it doesn't make any logical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I didn't say he was useless in the books; I said he was insufferable. He was always right, always too wise for his own good etc. I just hate that type of character who has this inborn ability and everyone is just an idiot compared to him. And he WAS important in the books, but to me he was too important the way his powers just overwhelmed any other avenue of knowledge or growth. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringer of Rain Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 It seems to show that Jojen's primary role was in simply getting Bran to the cave, and that after he's pretty incidental (or Jojen paste is, God forbid, actually a thing and D&D said, "Fuck that, just kill him before they get to the cave"). Maybe the question you should actually be asking is not, "Why did Jojen die at this point?" but rather, "Why is Meera still alive?" You are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk12344 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 No. Show canon isn't the same as book canon. Jojen's death in the show has no impact on his fate in the books.No it does have an impact in that we now know that with good certainty that Jojen won't play any signficant role in upcoming books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 No we don't. It's very misleading to draw conclusions about book Jojen from this episode. D&D have shown time and again that they're willing to wildly differ from the books, and Jojen may have been one they simply didn't have time for any more, and instead now they'll have more time to focus on the relationship between Meera and Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringer of Rain Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 No it does have an impact in that we now know that with good certainty that Jojen won't play any signficant role in upcoming books. Exactly the point of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockroi Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 No we don't. It's very misleading to draw conclusions about book Jojen from this episode. D&D have shown time and again that they're willing to wildly differ from the books, and Jojen may have been one they simply didn't have time for any more, and instead now they'll have more time to focus on the relationship between Meera and Bran. It bears repeating that while D&D sometimes ask Martin for clarification on certain characters and their ultimate story line, they DO NOT in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER require his "permission" to do anything. They also do not need to get his input (other than his contractually obligated 1 episode per season). IN fact, with the show's unbelievable success, the show runners PROBABLY have enough clout and internal momentum to do whatever they want however they want. You know? Like have Jaime rape Cersei. What could POSSIBLY go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 No it does have an impact in that we now know that with good certainty that Jojen won't play any signficant role in upcoming books. We don't actually know that. D&D are only privy to the broadstrokes on the ending, not the relative importance of every character in getting to that ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Enough with pastes. Enough... why you want to have people eating other people? Maybe the question you should actually be asking is not, "Why did Jojen die at this point?" but rather, "Why is Meera still alive?"Well, first, she's stronger in both books and show. She wasn't just going to drop dead and she does know how to keep up a fight, which she did. Killing her now would be only for "shocking value" which is a lame thing to do. At least Grenn and Pyp died while fighting. Now, why will she stay alive, maybe? Perhaps Bran dies or stays in the cave forever. Someone has to tell the story. Or someone has to help him out. Or he needs to keep in touch with "reality". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommytwoshoes Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I like how nobody has pointed out "Oh, this is why he saw himself on fire" yet... because they threw a fireball at him. Also, can we just for a moment talk about how lame and out of place the fireballs were? This isn't dungeons and dragons HBO... no good no good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Gay? Choose your words better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 This makes the Jojen Paste theory stronger, actually. I am a strong supporter of Jojen Paste.. not because of any need to see such a gruesome thing or any dislike of Jojen. He's one of my favorites actually... But the evidence is all there. Bran's last chapter is written just like the RW chapter. Something dark definitely happened there. Also, Apple makes a great point, one that made me quite relieved when I watched it tonight. Meera is obviously needed for something! That makes my heart leap higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freeholder Targaryen Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 If I were GRRM, I would make him the Great Other or something like that, only to fuck up with HBO. lmao this would be incredibly awesome/hilarious, especially considering how many times D&D fucked GRRM's plot points. It would even work IMO, excellent twist/surprise, and would make relative sense (gains Bran's trust and leads him right to the Others' doorstep so they could use his powers to spy for their invasion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommytwoshoes Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Gay? Choose your words better. You're the most mature man on the internet. You win. Congratulations. Your time was well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 tommytwoshoes, please see below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerl Targaryen Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 No it does have an impact in that we now know that with good certainty that Jojen won't play any signficant role in upcoming books.We know no such thing. The showrunners can and do change major plot points and characters because they can. They do it all the time. They've consolidated characters, added characters, killed characters that are still alive in the books, added subplots, removed subplots, reshuffled events to change the pacing of the show, etc. This is really no different than any of those things. The fact is we have absolutely no idea what kind of role Jojen will play in the story moving forward in the books. No idea at all. The show doing something a particular way says nothing about what GRRM may or may not be doing. D&D are not required to translate GRRM's story directly. Nor are they required to adhere to any particular plot point if they don't want to. And they've been doing this since the very first episode of the series. Why would Jojen be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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