Queen Rhaenyra

Errors in the WOIAF

167 posts in this topic

44 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Cool, thank you!

Towards the end of The Stormlands: House Baratheon

It has been amended from 282 AC to 283 AC.

Not sure if we ever listed that as errors but the sidebar on Baelor's sisters still implies that Aegon IV was not yet king when he allegedly fathered Viserys Plumm in 176 AC. The sentence talks about the rumor that Elaena's cousin Aegon - 'he who would later become King Aegon the Unworthy' - was the father of the boy. Now, Aegon might not yet have been known as the Unworthy in 176 AC but he clearly was already king.

So that sentence should better talk about Elaena's 'cousin King Aegon' and, perhaps 'he who is known to history as Aegon the Unworthy' or 'he who was later known as Aegon the Unworthy'.

That is something that should be changed (if they are still introducing changes) since it really misleads the casual reader about the time line of events.

We also have Addam and Alyn of Hull always referred to as the grandsons of the Sea Snake (outside the sidebar detailing Mushroom's rumors about their parentage, of course).

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36 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It has been amended from 282 AC to 283 AC.

Thank you!

@SFDanny, I guess you would be interested to know this, too, since we discussed this not too long ago.

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1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Thank you!

@SFDanny, I guess you would be interested to know this, too, since we discussed this not too long ago.

Thank you, RT! It's ridiculous how good that simple change makes me feel! Far too long until the next book.

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We also have Laenor Velaryon being constantly referred to either with no title or a simple 'Ser'. Prince Laenor is gone.

I found a 'certainly' typo somewhere in the Westerlands where it should read 'certainty'.

Historically the name 'Shield Islands' / 'Shields' should not be used for those islands in the sections on the Reach while they are not yet named this way.

I have yet to take a look at the Dornish section but this should also go for Sunspear while it is still the Sandship. In the first edition only the section on the Rhoynar had the Sandship while the Dorne section unanimously talked about Sunspear.

And I think somebody really should resolve the Qhored Hoare - Bernarr II Justman conundrum if there are some major changes. That could work best if Qhored the super Ironborn king might just have been a Qhored Hoare '(or a Greyiron, or of some other house) but the Qhored Hoare who ended House Justman was a historical king from House Hoare after the black blood took over the islands.

The Justmans did not rule the Riverlands before the Andals came.

But Harwyn Hardhand lands at the right place now, both in the Riverlands and the Iron Islands section.

I'm still very skeptical about the plausibility of his background. The man must have been born before the Doom of Valyria, and there wouldn't have been any Disputed Lands or trade wars among the Free Cities in those days, let alone a lot of opportunity for pirates and corsairs to trouble the waters controlled by the Freehold.

And even if Valyria was already gone in the days of the man's adventures far away from home it would have been the Century of Blood with a lot of real naval wars going on in southwest Essos.

Thanks to the changes to George's original History of the Westerlands in regards to the time in which the Andals there is also a contradiction to be observed in regards to the kings named Tyrion. Tyrion II the Tormentor is specifically called a later king yet Tyrion III seems to be ruling before Tyrion II, being one of the kings who oppose the Andals.

Unless we assume that this is the sole instance in the section where text is not moving forward chronologically this this is a contradiction.

Even the wiki lists Tyrion III among the First Men Lannister kings and Tyrion II amongst the Lydden line.

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@Lord Varys Ran has said somewhere (that I don't have linked on my tablet, but do on my currently charger-less laptop), perhaps in the Inconsistencies thread, that basically Reach-attacking Qhored (i.e. "the Cruel") is a different one to the Justman-extinguishing Qhored, with the former as a driftwood king & the latter a hereditary king. Indeed, that there were multiple Qhored Hoares during both periods.

On Hardhand's background, remember that:

  • Slavers & pirates from the Stepstones were attacking the North, Riverlands, & Vale (perhaps also the Stormlands &/or Dorne) at least during the Worthless War.
  • The Basilisk Isles have been ruled by corsair kings at least as far back as c.700BC when Nymeria & her Rhoynar were there. Indeed, the Freehold abandoned their last Sothoryos outpost (Zamettar) c.1700BC & perhaps also the Isles themselves then too. After all, they wouldn't need them for Zamettar anymore & they had other places like their own mines to send their criminals.
  • The paragraphs before Harwyn is brought up in "The Black Brood", suggests that since at least the Famine Winter (geez I want a dating on this! c.500BC?) that the Ironborn engaged in the New Way with the Free Cities, the Old Way in the Basilisk Isles & Stepstones, & a Quellon-esque combination of the two as sellsails for them there.
  • The Freehold, particularly the dragonlords themselves, have actually been quite insular for much of their history; only involving themselves when needed, instead preferring the comforts of & power in Valyria. The trade wars & reavers would've very, very rarely (at best) have actually threatened one of their Daughters - let alone any of the others closer to & directly controlled by Valyria - & if they did, then the attackers would get the Second Spice War or Scouring of Lorath treatment. And even then, Rhoynar then or during earlier wars migrated to & assimilated with the Valyrian colonists of Myr & (some of) the remaining Essosi Andals likewise with Pentos. Really, I think for the most part, the Freehold would've benefitted from all of these various conflicts - particularly with the slave trade.

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2 hours ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

@Lord Varys Ran has said somewhere (that I don't have linked on my tablet, but do on my currently charger-less laptop), perhaps in the Inconsistencies thread, that basically Reach-attacking Qhored (i.e. "the Cruel") is a different one to the Justman-extinguishing Qhored, with the former as a driftwood king & the latter a hereditary king. Indeed, that there were multiple Qhored Hoares during both periods.

Sure, that makes sense. However, this should actually be reflected by the text in some fashion. At least some time in the future. The Iron Islands section clearly places the end of the House Justman very far back in time.

2 hours ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

On Hardhand's background, remember that:

  • Slavers & pirates from the Stepstones were attacking the North, Riverlands, & Vale (perhaps also the Stormlands &/or Dorne) at least during the Worthless War.

Sure, but that might have been before the Tyroshi and the Lyseni and the Myrmen were as powerful as they later were (assuming their colonies were already more than trading outposts at that time). Or it is possible that they were those slavers and pirates. There is also talk about the Volantenes and Valyrians sending slavers to Westeros.

2 hours ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:
  • The Basilisk Isles have been ruled by corsair kings at least as far back as c.700BC when Nymeria & her Rhoynar were there. Indeed, the Freehold abandoned their last Sothoryos outpost (Zamettar) c.1700BC & perhaps also the Isles themselves then too. After all, they wouldn't need them for Zamettar anymore & they had other places like their own mines to send their criminals.

That is another problem because the Basilisk Isles and Sothoryos itself is so close to the Lands of the Long Summer. We know Gogossos on the Isle of Tears was apparently always a Valyrian colony since it was taken from the Ghiscari in the Third Ghiscari War. There is little room for independent corsairs and the like in the centuries before the Doom when Valyria's power was at it's utmost height. For the dragonlords such corsairs would have been both a nuisance and a very good source for slaves.

Perhaps we could go with them working for the Valyrians to provide them with slaves they captured on Sothoryos. That could explain why they were willing to allow the Rhoynar to settle if they provided them with fresh slaves on a regular basis.

2 hours ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:
  • The paragraphs before Harwyn is brought up in "The Black Brood", suggests that since at least the Famine Winter (geez I want a dating on this! c.500BC?) that the Ironborn engaged in the New Way with the Free Cities, the Old Way in the Basilisk Isles & Stepstones, & a Quellon-esque combination of the two as sellsails for them there.

Yeah, that is sort of a problem, too, because it implies that Valyria was essentially gone. This was the time when Valyria was establishing its outposts on Dragonstone and Driftmark. The idea that the Stepstones were pirate nests in those days simply make no sense. 

2 hours ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:
  • The Freehold, particularly the dragonlords themselves, have actually been quite insular for much of their history; only involving themselves when needed, instead preferring the comforts of & power in Valyria. The trade wars & reavers would've very, very rarely (at best) have actually threatened one of their Daughters - let alone any of the others closer to & directly controlled by Valyria - & if they did, then the attackers would get the Second Spice War or Scouring of Lorath treatment. And even then, Rhoynar then or during earlier wars migrated to & assimilated with the Valyrian colonists of Myr & (some of) the remaining Essosi Andals likewise with Pentos. Really, I think for the most part, the Freehold would've benefitted from all of these various conflicts - particularly with the slave trade.

Still, pirates pray on valuable stuff. Now, what do you expect a dragonlord to do when a tribute ship from Qarth, Great Moraq, or wherever is taken by some corsair from the Basilisk Isles. Surely you don't just write that off. If pirates can haunt the waters this close to home then Valyria has no power at all. It would be as if the US government would suffer pirates on the Florida Keys or Cuba in our days or the British allowing themselves to be troubled by the Channel Islanders.

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Has it been pointed out that in the timeline of Targaryen reigns near the end, it gets Baelor I and Daeron I the wrong way round?

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