Better Call Saul

[Nictarion]

Holy shit, Chris Hardwick just tried to hug Jonathan Banks on Talking Saul and Banks put him in a headlock and started pummeling him. I love that guy.

[SerHaHa]

The first thought I had about the note was Fring as well.  I also thought that maybe the way Salamonca got into that wheel chair and highly disabled was from a close but no cigar rifle shot.  The whole preamble when zeroing the rifle (which was typical TV land 1/2 correct at best) - they  seemed to spend a lot of time, about 2 minutes screen time, on the fact that accuracy with the rifle may have been in question.  IE the cold barrel shot issue, and so on. Zeroing at a close range as they were doing, and then taking a much longer shot without actually shooting groups and verifying that the rifle is on per the tables/etc at longer ranges than a 100 or 300yard zero = much higher probability of getting a miss.  So, that's where I thought they were going with that whole sequence, Mike was going to fire, and just wound Salamonca and put him in that chair.

I like and enjoyed the direction they went instead far better, I'll be wondering until the resolve who actually wrote that note. 

[Mark Antony]

1 hour ago, Martini Sigil said:

Holy shit I hate Chuck

Hahahah seriously so much. 

Love Ernie, love Jim Beaver. Note for Mike was definitely Gus imo. He wouldn't want anyone else killing Hector. Solid finale. 

[SerHaHa]

Speaking of Jim Beaver, if you want to read an excellent book, full of sorrow and hilarity rolled up together in brilliance, read his book "Life's that Way".  I can't recommend it highly enough.

This season blew by, I can't recall a season of television ever going by so quickly for me before.  Really great job they've done again, and I think season 3 is really going to step on the gas, and get back towards the Breaking Bad roots, with a lot more...not action, but serious conflict, and some serious wow moments.

 

[Bridgeburners]

So as soon as Chuck started lamenting about how he made a mistake and he's a no good lawyer, I knew immediately that this was a setup. It seems a little silly of the show to make something so obvious, but maybe they weren't trying to be too subtle about it. Maybe it's just Jimmy having tunnel vision when it comes to his brother.

Anyway, I don't blame Chuck at all for not letting it go. Like I said before, the notion that he made a mistake with the address is utterly ridiculous. It has nothing to do with how smart he is, even brilliant physicists make little mistakes like that, it's the fact that the sheer coincidence of only ever making that mistake on that one particular thing, and making it over and over again, is way too low probability to be entirely by chance. Remember, Chuck mentioned that he wrote 1216 instead of 1261 "over and over again", and Jimmy doctored every single instance of it in his files, and then he replaced it back with the originals while they were in court. Meaning that, according to Jimmy's story, all the files said "1261" the whole time and Chuck mixed it up every single time he read and copied it, and in every single instance of that word. That is an extremely specific mistake to make over and over again, while doing everything else correct. If I were in Chuck's position I would know for a fact that some foul play was done. The photocopy clerk backing on his story is really just the tiny icing on the cake. Chuck was absolutely right to pursue this in my opinion. 

Of course, I still concede that he's an asshole, and a lot of what he does to Jimmy comes from sheer sibling rivalry. It seems like the show emphasizes this a lot, with the cold opening in this episode, and with the one with his wife. But that doesn't mean he's wrong about the whole "chimp with a machine gun" thing. Every single chance Jimmy had to be a straight up and up lawyer, he completely botched with reckless and unethical moves (the bus solicitation, for example). This puts a huge hole in the "Chuck made him this way by squelching his opportunity" hypothesis. He had ample opportunity.

Anyway, it seems like Chuck will have a change of heart and not turn that recording into a court, since we know that Jimmy keeps his practice in the future. And we all know how much of a terrible mistake that will end up being on Chuck's part. It really would be for the greater good if Chuck successfully got him disbarred, and everybody knows it.

[Nictarion]

Talking Saul pretty much confirmed the note was from

 

Gus! Well done by those who caught "Fring's back" in the episode titles. Gilligan and Gould confirmed that as well.

 

[Scrambled Aegon]

@Bridgeburners - The point is that it was obvious - just like the similar ruse in a late Breaking Bad episode, or even like Pimento just last season. Gives us that sweet dramatic irony. The actual titular "Klick" was just a solidification of what we already knew, and while it probably surprised some viewers, it wasn't totally meant to - the fact that Chuck was doing that scheme at all is a surprise. They set up Pimento's twist the same way and I've loved it both times. There's a time for an instantaneous shock reveal like this one from Breaking Bad, and there's a time for one like this, where there's the gradual discovery of "Wait, is he for real? ...Is he not for real? ...Dear God, he's not for real!", where you work it out on your own at your own pace, and that's rewarding in itself, and then you get the "fun" of the protagonist not knowing what you do. So yeah it was clear to most viewers before we actually saw the recorder. It was supposed to be.

 

I'll probably have more to say in a day or two after I've rewatched the episode, and I'd like to read over some of the comments in this thread, but for now I just wanna say that I think this was easily Better Call Saul's best episode to date (which isn't something I say after all of them; I've only felt that way before after, obviously, Five-O and Pimento - and my top four right now would still be Klick > Pimento > Nailed> Five-O.) Scene after scene was great. Like Marco, it feels more like it'll be a transition into the following season, but it was also a hell of a lot bigger and more exciting on its own.

 

The cold open was one of the best ones we've had and biggest gut-punches on the show to date; it felt like an entire fucking episode in five minutes considering how much it left me with. I just rewatched it and it's still overwhelming to me. For once I'll say thank God for the commercial break; when I rewatch this episode with my sister (who's behind) I don't know how I'm going to go from that into a full episode. The final scene was just amazing - even if the final shot wasn't a shocker, Chuck utilizing his illness as a strength to out-con Slippin' Jimmy definitely is a huge twist.

 

The Mike scene was also brilliant, had my heart pounding for five straight minutes without a word. Any one of those three would have been the absolute high point of most BCS episodes. Getting all three of those together, with A+ content in between? Pimento's narrower focus may bring it higher if I rewatch them back to back or something, but there's no question for me that this is at least one of the two best episodes the show has given us, and almost certainly the best. And it goes without saying but Michael McKean hit a whole new level this episode. I hope he gets all the praise Rhea Seehorn has been getting and more. (Not to say she doesn't deserve hers, obviously, and I'd have loved to see even more of her this week, but I guess that's for season three.)

[Tears of Lys]

Yeah, Chuck's recording of Jimmy admitting to his doctoring of the records was pretty much telegraphed way ahead of time.  The only question now is how will Jimmy slip out of this one.   My husband, who's not seen Breaking Bad, has no doubt that Jimmy WILL worm his way out of it.  Chuck's mental condition gives Jimmy plenty of room to explain it away.  If Chuck DOES try to get Jimmy disbarred, which is questionable, he'd have a hard time using it in court, IMHO.   Is he going to play it for Kim?  If so, he's in for a rude awakening.

I'm suffering a serious case of BCS withdrawal now.   

 

Oh, and yeah, that was a dick move on Chuck's part - so petty.  

[Mark Antony]

I had the same thought. I know he made sure that Jimmy said it was true and that he wasn't trying to make him feel better but I still don't think it would hold up. 

 

[drawkcabi]

Especially since during Jimmy's "confession" he also said he was saying it all to make Chuck feel better, it just happened to also be true. Jimmy could latch onto that first part and argue it was all just to make Chuck feel better and none of it really true. There's enough room here for doubt on both sides in the argument.

[Ken Stone]

First off we know that Jimmy changes his name by the time he meets Walter White. Maybe it is the result of this fraud case?

Second I would love to hear someone explain how Chuck is anything but 100% justified in his actions. Let's not forget, Jimmy committed fraud that cost Mesa Bank millions of dollars. I think the reasoning goes something like this:

Kim worked *really hard* to get Mesa Bank as a customer, so when HHM *stole* them it was *unfair*.

Let's break this argument down. When Kim got Mesa Bank she was a partner at HHM. One could argue that Kims position at HHM was a determining factor in their decision to go with HHM. If she was independent would they have went with her? Maybe, maybe not. For sure Chuck's expertise had to play a role in their decision.

Also, Mesa bank is free to make any decision they choose. Just because they didn't choose Kim doesn't mean they deserve to be defrauded of millions of dollars. They had to do what was best for their company. Chuck and Kim went head to head with their sales pitches. Chuck won. Case closed. He's not an asshole. His actions were perfectly reasonable considering the circumstances.

 

 

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, Mark Antony said:

I had the same thought. I know he made sure that Jimmy said it was true and that he wasn't trying to make him feel better but I still don't think it would hold up. 

 

Yeah, but even a cursory investigation is going to show that Ernesto did NOT call Jimmy, so there is his presence on the scene, which would be kinda random unless he was staking it out.  Also, pretty strong likelihood that the clerk would cave if pushed and also that a forensic examination of the documents would show they had been modified.  This may be how he goes from Jimmy to Saul.  He agrees to not practice as Jimmy McGill in return for not being prosecuted for his array of felonies.

Even though Chuck is not likable, it was pretty tough to watch someone being subjected to unwanted medical treatment and being restrained.

The brothers relationship is written so well.  I felt bad for Chuck, there he is the dutiful son, probably financially supported his parents while Jimmy continued to grift off them, caused them all kinds of trouble, but true to form, his mother's last wish is to see Jimmy not Chuck....even though to the last he's holding her land while Jimmy goes out for a snack.  That's brutal.

I admit I thought the note was written by Nacho, since he was standing right in front of Mike's target the whole time.

[Mark Antony]

19 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The brothers relationship is written so well.  I felt bad for Chuck, there he is the dutiful son, probably financially supported his parents while Jimmy continued to grift off them, caused them all kinds of trouble, but true to form, his mother's last wish is to see Jimmy not Chuck....even though to the last he's holding her land while Jimmy goes out for a snack.  That's brutal.

Yeah I felt bad for a second but then when he didn't even tell Jimmy his mom asked for him I stopped feeling bad again (and no he wasn't withholding that info because he thought it would make Jimmy feel bad for not being there).

[Cas Stark]

7 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Yeah I felt bad for a second but then when he didn't even tell Jimmy his mom asked for him I stopped feeling bad again (and no he wasn't withholding that info because he thought it would make Jimmy feel bad for not being there).

I know, but don't you feel for Chuck?  The Good Son who never got the same love as the chronic fuck up?  He's trying to get his mother to recognize him, that he's there, and she's only about Jimmy.  That would be soul crushing.

[The Unborn]

But you know nothing about his relationship with his mom,and dad, for that matter. I wish we would know what happened to his wife.

[drawkcabi]

1 hour ago, Ken Stone said:

First off we know that Jimmy changes his name by the time he meets Walter White. Maybe it is the result of this fraud case?

Second I would love to hear someone explain how Chuck is anything but 100% justified in his actions. Let's not forget, Jimmy committed fraud that cost Mesa Bank millions of dollars. I think the reasoning goes something like this:

Kim worked *really hard* to get Mesa Bank as a customer, so when HHM *stole* them it was *unfair*.

Let's break this argument down. When Kim got Mesa Bank she was a partner at HHM. One could argue that Kims position at HHM was a determining factor in their decision to go with HHM. If she was independent would they have went with her? Maybe, maybe not. For sure Chuck's expertise had to play a role in their decision.

Also, Mesa bank is free to make any decision they choose. Just because they didn't choose Kim doesn't mean they deserve to be defrauded of millions of dollars. They had to do what was best for their company. Chuck and Kim went head to head with their sales pitches. Chuck won. Case closed. He's not an asshole. His actions were perfectly reasonable considering the circumstances.

 

 

I'm not sure anyone is arguing that Chuck isn't completely justified. It's just that there's a difference in being justified in one's actions and being not a dick.

Chuck is being a major dick. Chuck was in the right to convince Mesa Verde to stick with HHM, he was in the right to accuse Jimmy for what he did, he was in the right to pursue getting to the truth of things.

But if he had just let it go? It would have been a little embarassment for the firm of HHM and a bit of a blemish on Chuck's record, nothing he couldn't have gotten over if he was the type of person who could get over things. And it would have been a huge help in getting Jimmy's and Kim's practice off the ground. If family and friendship meant more to him than being justified and right he would have let it go, but proving he had not made a error that in the long run would mean hardly anything to him and his firm and maybe mean a great deal to Jimmy and Kim was more important.

He is petty, maybe it's a mental issue with him to be so tenacious, but he still put the picayune over family and friendship. Technically in the right but IMHO humanly in the wrong.

[Cas Stark]

2 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

I'm not sure anyone is arguing that Chuck isn't completely justified. It's just that there's a difference in being justified in one's actions and being not a dick.

Chuck is being a major dick. Chuck was in the right to convince Mesa Verde to stick with HHM, he was in the right to accuse Jimmy for what he did, he was in the right to pursue getting to the truth of things.

But if he had just let it go? It would have been a little embarassment for the firm of HHM and a bit of a blemish on Chuck's record, nothing he couldn't have gotten over if he was the type of person who could get over things. And it would have been a huge help in getting Jimmy's and Kim's practice off the ground. If family and friendship meant more to him than being justified and right he would have let it go, but proving he had not made a error that in the long run would mean hardly anything to him and his firm and maybe mean a great deal to Jimmy and Kim was more important.

He is petty, maybe it's a mental issue with him not being so tenacious, but he still put the picayune over family and friendship. Technically in the right but IMHO humanly in the wrong.

Or, maybe Jimmy just shouldn't have committed multiple felonies.

I don't see why Chuck should let it go, Jimmy's actions not only are a blemish on his career, but caused him to be subjected to multiple humiliations in the hospital.  And, given that Chuck is already, at best, a massive eccentric, in legal circles, him botching the filing is a much bigger deal that for a regular lawyer who isn't afraid of electricity.

 

[drawkcabi]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Or, maybe Jimmy just shouldn't have committed multiple felonies.

I don't see why Chuck should let it go, Jimmy's actions not only are a blemish on his career, but caused him to be subjected to multiple humiliations in the hospital.  And, given that Chuck is already, at best, a massive eccentric, in legal circles, him botching the filing is a much bigger deal that for a regular lawyer who isn't afraid of electricity.

 

Perfectly legitimate viewpoint. I can just totallly see why other people think Chuck is an asshole and I'm more in agreement with them.

[sifth]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Or, maybe Jimmy just shouldn't have committed multiple felonies.

I don't see why Chuck should let it go, Jimmy's actions not only are a blemish on his career, but caused him to be subjected to multiple humiliations in the hospital.  And, given that Chuck is already, at best, a massive eccentric, in legal circles, him botching the filing is a much bigger deal that for a regular lawyer who isn't afraid of electricity.

 

You know you're doing a good job as a writer, when both parties are wrong. I don't agree with Jimmy did, but I don't approve Chuck's methods of getting to the truth either.

 

The fact that Chuck only went after the case because Jimmy was involved with it has me slightly leaning on the side of Jimmy. Chuck really has shown over the cores of the show that he's a horrible big brother, who always wants Jimmy to be beneath him.

[drawkcabi]

Chuck is a perfectionist and has no give. It always has to be his way and he is uncompromising about it. He will never meet someone half way or make allowances for anything. It's helped him be a brilliant lawyer but a lousy brother.