Moments of Foreshadowing v.11

[Blackfyre Bastard]

Never mind, my mistake

[Isobel Harper]

On 11/29/2016 at 9:24 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Oh, I disagree... Let's say Arya discovers Petyr's betrayal of her father and his involvement in the downfall of her house, and then let's say she discovers her sister pretending to be Petyr's daughter. That would make her actions very personal, and possibly, very satisfying. 

 

On 11/29/2016 at 0:20 PM, Isobel Harper said:

 

In my own personal opinion, I think this is something the sisters are going somehow do together... the first time they truly work together most like.

@Lost Melnibonean I elaborate a little more on this in another thread here.

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I've recently noticed a reoccurring  theme amongst certain characters: a parallel to Hamlet.  

I disagree that Arya's "demon to slay" is LSH.  When the time comes, Sansa and Arya will work together to bring LF down.  In Hamlet, Hamlet must slay his uncle Cladius to avenge his father.  LF is uncle to both these girls via marriage.  For Sansa, this parallel is much more poignant.  LF killed (essentially) their father to take his place, as Sansa's father.  (Sansa also parallels Gertrude as well, since LF ultimately wants to marry her himself.)  And how did Hamlet's uncle die?  DRINKING POISON.  Methinks that hair net that Sansa has stashed away will come of use later.  Hopefully, Sansa and Arya can bring down the giant without dying as well. 

And since I'm on the subject of siblings working together to bring down a common foe... Theon and Asha are another pair of Hamlet parallels.  Euron plays the role of Uncle Claudius, killing his brother and usurping his place.  Like Sansa and Arya, Theon and Asha will have to set aside their differences if they are to kill their "true demon."

Ramsey plays the role of Claudius, killing his brother, though he is a son, not an uncle.  Ramsey should be Roose's "demon," but (as he laments to Theon) there's the issue of kinslaying that holds his hand.  Perhaps Roose laments to Theon about this thinking that Theon might slay Ramsey for him?  Or perhaps Roose won't be able to get past the kinslaying issue and be slain by Ramsey too?  OR, since the Freys are only giving Roose an even poorer image after the RW, perhaps Roose is the kind of guy that doesn't mind having a "demon" around?  That is, perhaps Roose is hoping Ramsey will kill his "Frey burden" Walda and their baby?

@LmL Speaking of Hamlet, Shakespeare based his play on a true(ish?) tale about the murder of Horwendill, who was killed by his brother Feng and avenged by his son Amleth.  The name Horwendill stems from Aurvandil, another name for the Morning Star! 

I've been brushing up on my Hamlet lately, and have come across a lot of Hamlet/ASoIaF (potential) parallels.  When/if I finish the thread I'm working on, I'll tag you.  Cheers!

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

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"You lie," he said, "but you may keep your secrets if you wish, Arya of House Stark." He only called her that when she displeased him. "You know that you may leave this place. You are not one of us, not yet. You may go home anytime you wish."

"You told me that if I left, I couldn't come back."

"Just so."

Those words made her sad. Syrio used to say that too, Arya remembered. He said it all the time. Syrio Forel had taught her needlework and died for her. "I don't want to leave."

"Then stay . . . but remember, the House of Black and White is not a home for orphans. All men must serve beneath this roof. Valar dohaeris is how we say it here. Remain if you will, but know that we shall require your obedience. At all times and in all things. If you cannot obey, you must depart."

"I can obey."

"We shall see."

...

Though her duties left her little time for needlework, she practiced when she could, dueling with her shadow by the light of a blue candle. One night the waif happened to be passing and saw Arya at her swordplay. The girl did not say a word, but the next day, the kindly man walked Arya back to her cell. "You need to rid yourself of all this," he said of her treasures.

Arya felt stricken. "They're mine."

"And who are you?"

"No one."

He picked up her silver fork. "This belongs to Arya of House Stark. All these things belong to her. There is no place for them here. There is no place for her. Hers is too proud a name, and we have no room for pride. We are servants here."

"I serve," she said, wounded. She liked the silver fork.

"You play at being a servant, but in your heart you are a lord's daughter. You have taken other names, but you wore them as lightly as you might wear a gown. Under them was always Arya."

"I don't wear gowns. You can't fight in a stupid gown."

"Why would you wish to fight? Are you some bravo, strutting through the alleys, spoiling for blood?" He sighed. "Before you drink from the cold cup, you must offer up all you are to Him of Many Faces. Your body. Your soul. Yourself. If you cannot bring yourself to do that, you must leave this place."

"The iron coin—"

"—has paid your passage here. From this point you must pay your own way, and the cost is dear."

"I don't have any gold."

"What we offer cannot be bought with gold. The cost is all of you. Men take many paths through this vale of tears and pain. Ours is the hardest. Few are made to walk it. It takes uncommon strength of body and spirit, and a heart both hard and strong."

I have a hole where my heart should be, she thought, and nowhere else to go. "I'm strong. As strong as you. I'm hard."

"You believe this is the only place for you." It was as if he'd heard her thoughts. "You are wrong in that. ...”

...

"It may be that the Many-Faced God has led you here to be His instrument, but when I look at you I see a child . . . and worse, a girl child. Many have served Him of Many Faces through the centuries, but only a few of His servants have been women. Women bring life into the world. We bring the gift of death. No one can do both."

He is trying to scare me away, Arya thought, the way he did with the worm. "I don't care about that."

"You should. Stay, and the Many-Faced God will take your ears, your nose, your tongue. He will take your sad grey eyes that have seen so much. He will take your hands, your feet, your arms and legs, your private parts. He will take your hopes and dreams, your loves and hates. Those who enter His service must give up all that makes them who they are. Can you do that?" He cupped her chin and gazed deep into her eyes, so deep it made her shiver. "No," he said, "I do not think you can."

...

Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan's stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow's smile. He used to mess my hair and call me "little sister," she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes.

Polliver had stolen the sword from her when the Mountain's men took her captive, but when she and the Hound walked into the inn at the crossroads, there it was. The gods wanted me to have it. Not the Seven, nor Him of Many Faces, but her father's gods, the old gods of the north. The Many-Faced God can have the rest, she thought, but he can't have this.

...

"You'll be safe here," she told Needle. "No one will know where you are but me." She pushed the sword and sheath behind the step, then shoved the stone back into place, so it looked like all the other stones. As she climbed back to the temple, she counted steps, so she would know where to find the sword again. One day she might have need of it. "One day," she whispered to herself.

 

Arya II, Feast 22

Arya will be expelled from the House of Black and White.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Cersei suggests that Roose will win the allegiance of Stark’s bannermen when Roose clears the ironmen out of Torrhen’s Square and Deppwood Motte...

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"Your Grace, glad tidings," he announced. "Wyman Manderly has done as you commanded, and beheaded Lord Stannis's onion knight."

"We know this for a certainty?"

"The man's head and hands have been mounted above the walls of White Harbor. Lord Wyman avows this, and the Freys confirm. They have seen the head there, with an onion in its mouth. And the hands, one marked by his shortened fingers."

"Very good," said Cersei. "Send a bird to Manderly and inform him that his son will be returned forthwith, now that he has demonstrated his loyalty." White Harbor would soon return to the king's peace, and Roose Bolton and his bastard son were closing in on Moat Cailin from south and north. Once the Moat was theirs, they would join their strength and clear the ironmen out of Torrhen's Square and Deepwood Motte as well. That should win them the allegiance of Ned Stark's remaining bannermen when the time came to march against Lord Stannis.

 

Cersei V, Feast 24But Stannis is the one who clears the ironmen out of Deepwood Motte.

Spoiler

Later, Tycho Nestoris ransoms the surviving ironmen from Deepwood

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Motte, and they rejoin Asha at the crofter’s village outside Winterfell where Stannis has camped...

"Tree," a raven cried. "Tree, tree, tree."

The other bird said, "Theon," clear as day, as Asha came striding through the door. Qarl the Maid was with her, and Tristifer Botley. Theon had known Botley since they were boys together, back on Pyke. Why has she brought her pets? Does she mean to cut me free? They would end the same way as the Karstarks, if she tried.

The king was displeased by their presence as well. "Your guards may wait without. If I meant harm to you, two men would not dissuade me."

The ironborn bowed and retreated. Asha took a knee.

 

Theon, Winds

Notice that the ironmen are allowed to move about Stannis’s camp freely.

 

Is it possible that Stannis might dispatch one or more of Asha’s pets to Torrhen’s Square to treat with Dagmar Cleftjaw, and to invite him and his men into the king’s peace? That

Spoiler

Asha’s men are not kept in chains, but apparently given freedom of the camp at least,

suggests that the northmen might accept such an arrangement, especially if the ironmen help them dislodge Bolton from Winterfell, and/or if Rickon returns and the ironmen help to reestablish Stark rule in the North. Then, Cersei’s suggestion would prove to have been a foreshadowing of gaining the support of the north by whoever clears the ironmen out of Deepwood Motte and Torrhen’s Square.

[rotting sea cow]

30 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Cersei suggests that Roose will win the allegiance of Stark’s bannermen when Roose clears the ironmen out of Torrhen’s Square and Deppwood Motte...

 

It is interesting that Cersei sees that so clear (although it won't be enough). Stannis needed Jon Snow to understand that.

Notice that Stannis doesn't consider Torrhen’s Square of strategic importance, for the moment. It is however clear he has plans for Asha and her ironmen, both immediate and midterm. What are those I 've no idea. 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

30 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

It is interesting that Cersei sees that so clear (although it won't be enough). Stannis needed Jon Snow to understand that.

Notice that Stannis doesn't consider Torrhen’s Square of strategic importance, for the moment. It is however clear he has plans for Asha and her ironmen, both immediate and midterm. What are those I 've no idea. 

 

I wouldn't say strategic importance since driving the ironmen from the castles of the North would help Stannis in his overarching goals, but rather, I would say tactical importance--taking Torrhen's Square is of no tactical importance. 

[Lifestream]

On 29/11/2016 at 7:00 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Arya, not Sansa, is the maid that will slay the savage giant. 

Why would that be?

I'm assuming you're using a prophecy from Ghost of High Heart, but doesn't the prophecy speak of the same "maid" with the purple serpents in her hair.

 

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"I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief," the dwarf woman was saying. "I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow."

I could understand if she said just "maid", but she says "that maid again"

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 minutes ago, Lifestream said:

Why would that be?

I'm assuming you're using a prophecy from Ghost of High Heart, but doesn't the prophecy speak of the same "maid" with the purple serpents in her hair.

I could understand if she said just "maid", but she says "that made again"

Arya, not Sansa, is the maid that will slay Littlefinger, the savage giant. 

[Lifestream]

12 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Arya, not Sansa, is the maid that will slay Littlefinger, the savage giant. 

Hm... it's a bit of a stretch. It seems that the Ghost turns to Arya when she notices her presence. Then she tells her to come closer
 and does give Arya a sort of prophecy or forshadows her dark future.

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The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes. "I see you," she whispered. "I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death . . . " She began to sob, her little body shaking. "You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!"

 

But then again I'm not entirely sure about the "savage giant" referring to LF, but that's just my personal crackpot theory.

 

Though it would be cool if both of them slew a giant of some sort, but not sure George's prophecies can be fulfilled by more than one person that the prophecy could refer to.

[Ser Wun Wun]

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Jaime; ASOS

“You heard me. My lord father found some skinny northern girl more or less the same age with more or less the same coloring. He dressed her up in white and grey, gave her a silver wolf to pin her cloak, and sent her off to wed Bolton’s bastard.” He lifted his stump to point at her. “I wanted to tell you that before you went galloping off to rescue her and got yourself killed for no good purpose. You’re not half bad with a sword, but you’re not good enough to take on two hundred men by yourself.”

Not really foreshadowing, but that's exactly what happened to Jon.  Made me giggle.  

14 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Arya, not Sansa, is the maid that will slay Littlefinger, the savage giant. 

Haven't read that whole thread, so maybe you already caught it, but:

Spoiler

In the Winds Barristan chapter there is this bit:

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Unfortunately for the Little Pigeon, he trips over the fringes of his bird armor and gets caught by the Red Lamb. The Little Pigeon begs for mercy, saying that he will fetch a large ransom. The Red Lamb just says “I came for blood, not gold” and knocks in the Little Pigeon’s head with his mace, splattering blood all over Barristan and Dany’s silver horse.

Little Pigeon, aka LF, trips on his Bird armor and is slaughtered by the Red Lamb.  I used to think the Red Lamb was the Hound acting on Sansa's orders or something, but nope, it's definitely Arya.    

Arya is killing LF after Sansa trips him up somehow.  This theory is 100% confirmed for me.  The foreshadowing is pretty blatant once you look back at that Arya/lamb stuff.   

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

12 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Not really foreshadowing, but that's exactly what happened to Jon.  Made me giggle.  

Haven't read that whole thread, so maybe you already caught it, but:

  Hide contents

In the Winds Barristan chapter there is this bit:

Little Pigeon, aka LF, trips on his Bird armor and is slaughtered by the Red Lamb.  I used to think the Red Lamb was the Hound acting on Sansa's orders or something, but nope, it's definitely Arya.    

Arya is killing LF after Sansa trips him up somehow.  This theory is 100% confirmed for me.  The foreshadowing is pretty blatant once you look back at that Arya/lamb stuff.   

 

Arya was a sheep on the way to Harrenhal. 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

35 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Not really foreshadowing, but that's exactly what happened to Jon.  Made me giggle.  

Haven't read that whole thread, so maybe you already caught it, but:

  Hide contents

In the Winds Barristan chapter there is this bit:

Little Pigeon, aka LF, trips on his Bird armor and is slaughtered by the Red Lamb.  I used to think the Red Lamb was the Hound acting on Sansa's orders or something, but nope, it's definitely Arya.    

Arya is killing LF after Sansa trips him up somehow.  This theory is 100% confirmed for me.  The foreshadowing is pretty blatant once you look back at that Arya/lamb stuff.   

 

While I'm not entirely sure about this suggestion, this Arya quote from AGOT would fit your argument, I think

Her stick sword whistled out and caught it two feet off the ground, and it went down in a flurry of brown feathers. She was on it in the blink of an eye, grabbing a wing as the pigeon flapped and fluttered. It pecked at her hand. She grabbed its neck and twisted until she felt the bone snap.

Compared with catching cats, pigeons were easy.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

While I'm not entirely sure about this suggestion, this Arya quote from AGOT would fit your argument, I think

Her stick sword whistled out and caught it two feet off the ground, and it went down in a flurry of brown feathers. She was on it in the blink of an eye, grabbing a wing as the pigeon flapped and fluttered. It pecked at her hand. She grabbed its neck and twisted until she felt the bone snap.

Compared with catching cats, pigeons were easy.

Nice. So, Arya is the red lamb and Petyr is the little pigeon. And Sansa? 

[GloubieBoulga]

Sansa VII, ASOS, Sansa wears lambswool, and she goes out and build the Winterfell with snow, in the Eyrie's courtyard. ^^

 

[Walda]

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Alayne rubbed at one [of the frosted over diamond-shaped window panes]with the heel of her hand, enough to glimpse a brilliant blue sky and a blaze of white from the mountainside. (AFf C, Ch.41 Alayne II)

It is not just clothes that echo the Arryn colours.

I came across this when I was analysing the word 'brilliant'. Usually signifies someone who looks like a brilliant warrior at a tourney, but becomes a corpse the minute they assume a battle command. I grouped this with the one where Jon noticed the brilliance of the wall, just before it shed Jarl and his crew, as they differed from the rest in that they described elements rather than people (ice and sky). This one is either the single exception, or it is foreshadowing a tourney/mummer commander (Petyr? or Alayne, SweetRobin, Lothar, Mya, maybe even Harry the Heir)  that will die as soon as they head into battle, taking their underlings with them.

Haven't really worked it out, but I'm a little nervous that Sansa is acting as Alayne, and doing a great job of it at the moment. And from the brilliant blue sky (and the white mountainside) is where this death will come from.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, GloubieBoulga said:

Sansa VII, ASOS, Sansa wears lambswool, and she goes out and build the Winterfell with snow, in the Eyrie's courtyard. ^^

 

Was the lambswool red? 

[GloubieBoulga]

No, it's blue lambswool, Arryn's colors (like Lysa), but also Other's colors (there are much references to others in that chapter). But the red color appears on Sansa's cheeks when she is outside. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

If Aurane Waters joins team Aegon, at least temporarily, Aegon VI will be facing a political situation very similar to the situation faced by Aegon III...

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The Velaryon fleet once more served the Iron Throne, and the Sea Snake would surely help to guide the young king. But these hopes were built on sand, and this period was soon known as the False Dawn. Aegon II had sent men across the narrow sea in search of sellswords, and none knew when or if those would return to avenge their king. In the west, the Red Kraken and 

The World of Ice and Fire, The Targaryens, Aegon III

[Joy Hill]

In AGOT, Tywin tells Tyrion that Jaime would never have meekly submitted to capture at the hands of a woman. 

Jaime is Brienne's captive during ASOS, and in ADWD he follows her without making any fuss (possibly to become LS's captive).

[Shmedricko]

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They found Lord Tarly in the fishmarket, doing justice.

A platform had been thrown up beside the water, from which his lordship could look down upon the men accused of crimes. To his left stood a long gallows, with ropes enough for twenty men. Four corpses swung beneath it. One looked fresh, but the other three had plainly been there for some time. A crow was pulling strips of flesh from the ripe ruins of one of the dead men. The other crows had scattered, wary of the crowd of townsfolk who'd gathered in hopes of someone's being hanged.

[...]

Lysa Tully is dead. Brienne stood beneath the gallows, the precious parchment in her hand. The crowd had dispersed, and the crows had returned to resume their feast. A singer pushed her off a mountain. Had the crows dined on Lady Catelyn's sister too? (Brienne III, AFFC)

Brienne standing beneath a set of gallows can be seen as foreshadowing for her getting hanged later in the book, especially since at the same time she's holding the parchment bearing Tommen's seal and signature, which is one of the pieces of evidence the Brotherhood uses to prove Brienne is in league with the Lannisters.