Fragile Bird Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I was watching a well-known pollster up here in Canada giving an analysis of where US polls are at the moment, and I was very surprised to hear how hardened voting positions are. You guys have virtually no swing voters, so differences of half a percent here and half a percent there are huge. In most other countries swing voters can make up as much as 30% of the electorate. I guess that's what happens in a two party system.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 36 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: I was watching a well-known pollster up here in Canada giving an analysis of where US polls are at the moment, and I was very surprised to hear how hardened voting positions are. You guys have virtually no swing voters, so differences of half a percent here and half a percent there are huge. In most other countries swing voters can make up as much as 30% of the electorate. I guess that's what happens in a two party system.... Also probably due to the nominees being so well known already. Most Americans have had opinions on Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: @Kalbear I think it's only Republicans who remember Reagan fondly. I think progressives in the USA mostly remember Reagan about as fondly as UK left wingers remember Thatcher. Not true, I think. I don't think anyone (no matter how far left) regards Reagan as pure unadulterated evil. They may detest what he stood for, and regard his Administration as the beginning of the end for egalitarianism in America, but at the end of the day, he was just too affable to truly be a folk devil. Thatcher on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said: I was watching a well-known pollster up here in Canada giving an analysis of where US polls are at the moment, and I was very surprised to hear how hardened voting positions are. You guys have virtually no swing voters, so differences of half a percent here and half a percent there are huge. In most other countries swing voters can make up as much as 30% of the electorate. I guess that's what happens in a two party system.... This is also why so much of US politics is about turnout. You're not trying to convert people - you're trying to enthuse your team and depress the other side. As a rule of thumb, there are more Democrats among the wider electorate, but Republicans are more likely to turn out. The higher the turnout, the better for Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Reagan was fucking evil. Fuck him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 7 hours ago, ThinkerX said: The posters praising Obama here apparently forget that for the bulk of Republicans, Obama is the president who effectively destroyed the US. Very much a partisan issue, with blinders all around. This is true. Obama gave a great speech, I really enjoyed it, but I feel that it will have no effect on the bulk of Republican voters. They live in an alternate reality where Obama is the worst president in US history and where if we elect Hillary Clinton to succeed him - pack it up y'all - the country is OVER. This is directly related to 8 years of hammering away at Obama in order to prevent a history-making ticket riding a huge wave of optimism from actually succeeding at doing anything. Deflect, obstruct, and discredit. Convince everyone that things are terrible and that they should fear for our country. Donald Trump is the fruit that strategy has borne. Personally I think there must be a sizable chunk of R politicians who are privately thinking... WTF have we done?! There have been a few who refused to get on the Trump train. But as for the rest, they are either true believers -or- they realize that they have politically demonized Clinton and Obama for so long that they are backed into a corner. Do anything other than tow the line for Trump and all their gloom and doom over the Obama years will be exposed for the bullshit that it was. By no means do I think Obama has been a perfect president. But I read a lot of Right Wing shit (against my better judgement and at the expense of my blood pressure) and they have an extremely unfavorable view of Obama. They actively foster the belief that he literally hates this country. Like Obama or not, that is miles from reality. But that is where a good chunk of conservative voters are sitting right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: I don't think anyone (no matter how far left) regards Reagan as pure unadulterated evil. Hello! I link this whenever Reagan comes up. (The mini-essay is the important thing, not the comic.) http://www.thepaincomics.com/weekly040609a.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Speaking of Reagan, John Hinkley, Jr. has been granted release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, S John said: This is true. Obama gave a great speech, I really enjoyed it, but I feel that it will have no effect on the bulk of Republican voters. Bloomberg gave the only speech that will have an effect on likely Republican voters. Maybe Panetta's will too. Everyone else was there to unify the party, more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 RBPL is of course thinking incorrectly with "I don't think anyone (no matter how far left) regards Reagan as pure unadulterated evil." There are going to be a few "far left" people who will always think Hillary Clinton is "pure unadulterated evil", so of course you are going to find some who feel that way about Reagan. But I do think that it's true that feelings toward Reagan among Americans who have the self-definition of "progressive" do not average out as negative as those of the corresponding group in the UK have toward Thathcer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 18 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Reagan was fucking evil. Fuck him. I'm on board with this. Google those press conferences in which Larry Speakes makes fun of gay people and AIDS. That kind of cruelty either comes from the top or is permitted by the top, and that was Reagan. He didn't have to be an advocate for gay rights, but he didn't have to make fun of us as an entire generation was wiped out by AIDS. So I will see Kalbear's "fuck him" and raise him a "in the eye socket." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: Speaking of Reagan, John Hinkley, Jr. has been granted release. Oh, gosh. This may well be the correct decision legally and psychiatrically, but I sure wish they'd waited until after the election to do it. This won't be a positive for the Democrats in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Ormond said: Oh, gosh. This may well be the correct decision legally and psychiatrically, but I sure wish they'd waited until after the election to do it. This won't be a positive for the Democrats in any way. Why would it be a negative? Hillary Clinton didn't order his release, nor did she appoint the judge who did so. If asked, she can say, "I wouldn't have done that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 31 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Reagan was fucking evil. Fuck him. I have a pretty large and colorful vocabulary, but I don't think I could ever properly express my loathing for that fraudulent, dog-whistle racist chickenhawk. He did unimaginable damage to millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: Why would it be a negative? Hillary Clinton didn't order his release, nor did she appoint the judge who did so. If asked, she can say, "I wouldn't have done that." This seems rather naive. It happened while Obama was President so he will get blamed regardless, and that will of course not help Clinton, who is, as even most Democrats say, largely running to continue Obama's administration. Plus Trump won't care even if a Republican president appointed the judge -- it will be used as an example of how the "elite establishment" makes decisions dangerous to the safety of average Americans. By the time November rolls around this may be forgotten by most. But it may well motivate a few Reagan-loving Republicans who otherwise might sit the election out to get to the polls and vote for Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 You know, at first at thought this seemed pretty far-fetched, Ormond. Then I went and checked out some other message boards and the comment sections where this is being discussed and it no longer seems like all that outlandish that the members of the GOP would latch on to this as some sort of attack against the Democratic party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Not true, I think. I don't think anyone (no matter how far left) regards Reagan as pure unadulterated evil. They may detest what he stood for, and regard his Administration as the beginning of the end for egalitarianism in America, but at the end of the day, he was just too affable to truly be a folk devil. Thatcher on the other hand... Nonsense, a lot of people would wait in long lines to piss on his grave. He had his brown nosers, yet he remains extremely unpopular with some in organized labor and has always been unpopular with the African American constituencies. This is dated, but it reflects urban sentiment about the man during his regimes rein- My personal memory of him is of the pos who called for a bloodbath on American campuses during the Kent State era, and as a hell bent on union busting executive who fired the air traffic controllers for political points. He certainly is not viewed as a warm and fuzzy figure universally. Plus I believe he cut a deal for arms to the Iranians for holding the hostages till after the election, nice guy not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Not true, I think. I don't think anyone (no matter how far left) regards Reagan as pure unadulterated evil. They may detest what he stood for, and regard his Administration as the beginning of the end for egalitarianism in America, but at the end of the day, he was just too affable to truly be a folk devil. Thatcher on the other hand... No, he was pretty horrible. He was more affable than Thatcher, true...but that's true of almost everyone, and people don't hate Thatcher because of her charmless demeanour; rather the corrupt, exploitative bigoted and hard-handed jingoism which they have almost entirely in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 23 minutes ago, S John said: Personally I think there must be a sizable chunk of R politicians who are privately thinking... WTF have we done?! There have been a few who refused to get on the Trump train. But as for the rest, they are either true believers -or- they realize that they have politically demonized Clinton and Obama for so long that they are backed into a corner. Do anything other than tow the line for Trump and all their gloom and doom over the Obama years will be exposed for the bullshit that it was. Oh, they are undoubtedly thinking that. In fact, they knew exactly what he was doing all along and they used him without hesitation from the lowest layers to the highest (i.e. Mitt Romney, despite how much he protests). Furthermore, even when he led the polls in 2015 and early 2016, they still thought that they could use him and then discard him -- but he outplayed them all. That said, I don't think all of the gloom and doom is bullshit. They are undoubtedly overstating the case and placing far too much of the blame on Obama, but there are serious, structural issues with the US economy which go back decades and are getting worse and worse in terms of the number of people affected. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have made any attempts at solving these. Instead, between the two of them, they've implemented a variant of the divide-and-conquer strategy (mostly along racial lines). This worked for a while, but the number of the discontented is now large enough that it is breaking down. Doom and gloom wouldn't sell nearly as well in a happy and prosperous nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 North Carolina GOP takes a break from patrolling women's bathrooms for illicit penises, and tweets an attack on Tim Kaine for wearing a Honduras flag pin. Turns out the pin was for Blue Star Families, a group for military families. Kaine's son is a Marine. The pin doesn't look much like a Honduran flag at all. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/north-carolina-gop-kaine-pin-shameful Those dim fuckfaces really don't have anyone capable of walking and chewing gum left in their organization, do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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