Lady Blizzardborn

Advanced Crackpottery 4 - Daario Naharis: International Man of Mystery

137 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

I also have my own wacky theory on Daario's identity from earlier in this thread (I think, its been awhile) and would love your feedback on it.

I've read the idea on p.3. So you suggest that Mellario switched boys and took Quentyn with her, and Daario is that Quentyn. I do have questions about how Mellario pulled that off. Even if Quentyn was young, he was not a baby either, since babies can't be pages. He would have been weaned and a toddler already, likely either five. I know some people speculate about toddler switcheroos as if people have no actual identity memory before the age of 5, but I'm a sceptic of that idea, majorly because I have several memories that predate my 5th birthday (I know because I moved to a new house on my 5th birthay), and my earliest was on my 2nd birthday and has a lot to do with my personal choice of what type of person I wanted to be (a princess or tomboy, envious or accepting), and thus identity. They're not memories constructed from pictures or what adults told me. I can fully describe the lay-out of the apartment where we lived, the details of construction material, the lay-out of furniture. I have about two dozen specific memories prior to being 5. So, imo, unless you pull off a swticheroo prior to the age of 2 and raise them with a lie from the start, a person's earliest memories will heavily conflict with a later imposed identity. And that is something that we seem to lack in Quentyn's POV.

For example, Jon's mother died at birth and he was told and raised with a lie from before he could speak, crawl or walk. He has no conflicting memories. We don't have Aegon's POV but he clearly believes what he's been told, and yet JonCon only started to raise him when he supposedly was 5, while we have hints that Aegon's actually Serra's son and initially lived in Illyrio's mansion (the dusty boy clothes). I'm partially looking forward to seeing more of Aegon to see whether an internal conflict is brewing for his identity by conflicted memories, or when Serra died. If she died prior to him turning 2 and all that he remembers is that he lived like a little prince in Illyrio's manse there wouldn't be a conflict. 

And then there's the logistics that Mellario needs to pull off.

Then there's the pattern of the 3-headed-dragon with Dany:

  • Viserys-Dany-unborn Rhaego
  • Viserys and Rhaego are replaced by the dragons Viserion and Rhaegal, while Drogon is herself
  • if Daario is a Blackfyre descendant we have Daario-Dany-Ben Plumm, while Viserion and Rhaegal are put away
  • After Ben Plumm betrays her, Quentyn shows up
  • As Daario is given as a hostage and Quentyn dies, Viserion and Rhaegal free themselves

I may be wrong about the pattern, or haven't put my finger on it correctly yet, but you might see the gist of the idea,no?

And then finally there's this whole point by George by putting a question mark behind the whole trueborn/bastard thing. Dany thinks of herself as the "last dragon", but she is most certainly not the last dragon: Ben Plumm alone proves she's not. The dragons even like him. It's exactly why they like him. Ok, so readers may think, "But Dany's the last trueborn Targaryen dragon". Well, if Daeron II was fathered by Aemon instead of Aegon, then his last name should have been Daeron Waters, no? Dany very well be the 6th generation of Targs who actually have as little right to call themselves Targaryen as Daemon Blackfyre or Viserys Plumm had. What's in a name? No matter if trueborn or bastardborn, Daeron, Daemon and Viserys had Targs as parents: all their descendant have two drops of dragon blood. While this point is relevant to Jon Snow's arc, his arc doesn't need dragons galore for him to learn that a bastard can have as meaningul impact on history than a trueborn. Growing up amidst trueborn Starks and the NW, and possibly dealing with fAegon does that. But Dany's the one who's into "I'm the last dragon" and taking the throne because of her name, so if anyone who can grow and learn from confrontations with other dragons that "a dragon is a dragon" no matter what the name or color then it would be Dany. To a lesser extent this insight is also relevant to Stannis's arc. From aGoT he's been confronted time and time again with well "bastards" (Cersei's children, Robert's children), and just like Dany (and imo Daemon Blackfyre) he feels it's his duty to sit the IT and push Cersei's bastards of the throne, and is told by his own younger brother Renly that the whole lineage idea is a social abstract construct. And if Stannis were to lose Shyreen and has no heir, what will he do then, not knowing which of Robert's bastards live or where? Would Stannis pull an Aegon IV and make any of Robert's bastards legitimate? The Stannis at the start of aCoK may have said "only if the seven hells freeze over". Stannis in the sample chapter of tWoW might not be there yet, but on his character-development way. And the seven "hells" (kingdoms) will freeze over, no?

Which brings me back to Varys's self-proclaimed motive, and what is at heart of the question whether Daeron II was Aemon's or Aegon's. Regardless, Daeron was a good king. He was called Daeron the Good after all, and for good reasons. His son Baelor would have made a good king too, no? And yet a good king also had two mad sons, one harmless, the other mostrously so. 

Daario Naharis as Quentyn Martell (although they have dragon blood too) does not put that issue before Dany. The Martells may be Rhoynish dragons, but they are not a potential enemy to her in aDwD (they might become her enemies though by flocking to Aegon's side), and not at the heart of what makes a dragon a dragon as the Plumms and Blackfyres and Targs do. Even if Dany doesn't know all of the histories precisely,she would know they were enemies who tried to steal a throne. It's this reason why Aegon as a Blackfyre seems so tempting,except that he's at the other side of the world (like Jon) and she won't even hear about him, let alone meet him before a long time. A Blackfyre descendant who's actually been her lover, on whom she has a crush on, a sellsword you shouldn't trust as far as you can throw them, but may actually end up sacrificing his life for her... now that's a closer confrontation, no?

Edited by sweetsunray

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@sweetsunray Thank you for taking the time to read my theory and offer such insightful feedback.  I'd thought of a possible connection between Saera and Serra, but hadn't gotten as far with it as you have. I would offer a different pronunciation for Saera though: SAY-ra. GRRM does tend to use the Old English pronunciation on his ae combinations pretty frequently, though not exclusively. Still, even with differing pronunciation the names are too close to not consider a link.

I'm looking forward to reading your Blackfyre thread when I get a chance.

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Posted (edited)

 

11 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

@sweetsunray Thank you for taking the time to read my theory and offer such insightful feedback.  I'd thought of a possible connection between Saera and Serra, but hadn't gotten as far with it as you have. I would offer a different pronunciation for Saera though: SAY-ra. GRRM does tend to use the Old English pronunciation on his ae combinations pretty frequently, though not exclusively. Still, even with differing pronunciation the names are too close to not consider a link.

I'm looking forward to reading your Blackfyre thread when I get a chance.

You might be right.

There is only one more character called Serra: a Frey daughter, one of twins (sibling twins, not just The Twins). Her twin sister is called Sarra. Both are likely a derivation of it, but would require a different pronounciation. The double -rr would make the -a or -e a shorter pronounced vowel than 'ae'. But then I also think, regardless of how George and Targaryens pronounce it, the pronounciation by both Westerosi and Lyseni would be slightly different (if we go by real world analogies). I've got an English first name, but almost nobody here in Belgium pronounces it how it should be. And they often write my name wrong, because of it as well, unless they know the name (but still can't pronounce it correctly). While Essosi all talk a version of Valyrian in the Free Cities, each one speaks a different dialect. For me the Serra and Sarra Frey is a hint or clue to consider the name "Serra" in aDwD as an alternative or alteration to another name.

Edited by sweetsunray

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Just now, sweetsunray said:

 

You might be right.

There is only one more characters called Serra: a Frey daughter, one of twins. Her twins sister is called Sarra. Both are likely a derivation of it, but would require a different pronounciation. The double -rr would make the -a or -e a shorter pronounced vowel than 'ae'. But then I also think, regardless of how George and Targaryens pronounce it, the pronounciation by both Westerosi and Lyseni would be slightly different (if we go by real world analogies). I've got an English first name, but almost nobody here in Belgium pronounces it how it should be. And they often write my name wrong, because of it as well, unless they know the name (but still can't pronounce it correctly). While Essosi all talk a version of Valyrian in the Free Cities, each one speaks a different dialect. For me the Serra and Sarra Frey is a hint or clue to consider the name "Serra" in aDwD as an alternative or alteration to another name.

Good points.

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Now that I've finished reading The Rogue Prince, I thought I'd share a few things that jumped out at me.

First there is a lot of blood around Daemon. He remarks that Dark Sister "has a thirst for blood" and he spills a lot of blood, even his dragon is called Blood Wyrm by the small folk. This reminds me of Daario a bit, but could also remind anyone of other characters, specifically any sellsword.

Let's look at some quotes now:

Quote

The Rogue Prince

Over the centuries, House Targaryen has produced both great men and monsters. Prince Daemon was both.

We already have Dany describing Daario as a monster. Whether he could be a great man is subject to debate, but he's definitely got leadership skills and an ability to strategize.

Quote

 

The Rogue Prince

He was made of light and darkness in equal parts.

To some he was a hero, to others the blackest of villains.

 

He's also described as "ambitious" and "impetuous." All things that could easily apply to Daario...and other characters as well, but those traits really come out in the Targaryen line it seems.

Quote

The Rogue Prince

As charming as he was hot-tempered, Prince Daemon had earned his knight's spurs at six-and-ten, and had been given Dark Sister by the Old King himself.

Emphasis mine because that part is totally Daario. I also find their warrior-ness to be very similar. While we don't know at what age Daario became proficient with weapons we do know that he's not all that old and is quite deadly. Not having an ancestral weapon around, Daario instead has some custom made hilts for his own blades. 

Quote

The Rogue Prince

That he made the city more orderly no man could doubt, but his discipline was a brutal one. He delighted in cutting off the hands of pickpockets, gelding rapists, and slitting the noses of thieves, and slew three men in street brawls his first year as commander.

This is about Daemon's tenure as Lord Commander of the City Watch of King's Landing. I can't say with any certainty that Daario would take the same measures, but it wouldn't surprise me if he would. I could absolutely see him killing men in a street brawl, and very much approving of the gold cloaks that Daemon gave to all the watchmen.

Daemon spent a lot of time in the winesinks, gaming pits, and brothels of the city. It was said he had a fondness for deflowering virgins. I think he'd approve of the hilts on Daario's blades. 

Daemon was described as being everything his brother Viserys I was not...

Quote

The Rogue Prince

...lean and hard, a renowned warrior, dashing, daring, and more than a little dangerous.

Remind you of anyone?

Next we'll take a look at Daemon's reaction to finding out his brother was going to marry again, to a young girl who could potentially provide an heir.

Quote

The Rogue Prince

...whipped the serving man who brought the news to him within an inch of his life.

Wow, Daemon. A little volatile are we? This does remind me just a tad of Daario's having to be restrained from killing the false turncloaks (that looks redundant, doesn't it?).

Now, on to the division at court. As many of us already know, the terms greens and blacks derive from what Rhaenyra and Alicent were wearing at a particular tourney. Daemon returned to court after this color fracture had begun. 

Quote

The Rogue Prince

Yet there was one who wore neither green nor black, but rather gold and silver. Prince Daemon had returned.

I don't recall any specific references to Daario and silver, but he does show up with gold.

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords, Dany IV

His pointed mustachios were painted gold. His clothes were all shades of yellow a foam of Myrish lace the color of butter spilled from his collar and cuffs, his doublet was sewn with brass medallions in the shape of dandelions, and ornamental goldwork crawled up his high leather boots to his thighs. Gloves of soft yellow suede were tucked into a belt of gilded rings...

 

Interesting, huh?

Now let's move on to the way Daemon interacts with his niece.

Quote

 

The Rogue Prince

Daemon spent long hours in her company, enthralling her with tales of his journeys and battles. He gave her pearls and silks and books and a jade tiara said once to have belonged to the Empress of Leng, read poems to her, dined with her, hawked with her, sailed with her, entertained her by making mock of the greens at court, the "lickspittles" fawning over Queen Alicent and her children. He praised her beauty, declaring her the fairest maid in the Seven Kingdoms. Uncle and niece began to fly together almost daily, racing Syrax against Caraxes to Dragonstone and back.

 

What does this have to do with Daario? Not much. Unless you imagine him and Dany in King's Landing with a whole family of Targs around them, and a dragon that he rides, and money to burn. In that kind of setting, he could shower her with precious gifts, read her poetry, do everything with her. And being a pampered princess she wouldn't have much better to do than go hawking and sailing and flying whenever she wanted.

As it is, Daario gives Dany flowers (the only gift at his disposal really), says poetic things to her, offers to bring her the heads of her enemies (and does occasionally) praises her beauty, and makes mock of those around her who he dislikes.

Daemon and Daario also both like their women feisty and with at least a hint of power. For his second wife Daemon chose Lady Laena Velaryon, whose mother was Rhaenys the Queen Who Never Was. Laena had a fiery personality of her own, and had claimed no less a mount than Vhagar who was at that time the oldest and largest Targaryen dragon.

Daemon also married Laena without his brother the king's knowledge or consent, an action he would repeat when he later married Rhaenyra. Daemon and Daario both seem to know how to go as far as they can possibly get away with, but no farther. They don't worry too much about authority figures over them, but they stop just short of total insubordination/treason.

No proof on this point but...Daemon is sometimes said to have been responsible for the deaths of both Rhaenrya's sworn shield (and possible lover) Harwin Strong, and her husband Laenor Velaryon. As I said there's no proof, but it puts me in mind of Daario's comment about killing Dany's betrothed...and a whole bunch of Meereenese nobles at her wedding feast. Whether Daemon was in fact complicit in those two deaths or not is irrelevant though as it's enough that his reputation makes people willing to believe he was involved. And he did murder Ser Vaemond Velyaron on Rhaenyra's orders, when Vaemond pressed a claim to Driftmark to rival her sons' claims to the Velaryon seat. Daemon is not averse to getting his hands dirty, and even fed what was left of Ser Vaemond to his dragon.

Remember what Dany said about Daario and eating the burned horse meat? That he'd laugh and hack a chunk off and join her. Seems to me Daemon would do the same.

The final sentences in the story...

Quote

 

The Rogue Prince

The tale of Prince Daemon Targaryen's bold deeds, black crimes, and heroic death in the carnage that followed are well known to all, so we shall end our story here.

After this the storm broke, and the dragons danced and died.

 

Bold deeds. Daario has some of them to his credit. Black crimes. Killing his partners might qualify. Heroic death...well not so far. We'll wait and see, but there will certainly be carnage to follow.

I don't know if they'll break but Daario's men are called the Stormcrows. Perhaps they will break "the storm, the first storm and the last."

Of course we all know that dragons will dance and die in the coming books.

Thanks for wading through this.

Tag time. I can't recall who all wanted to be tagged at updates so I apologize if you did not want to be tagged.  @Curled Finger @The Fattest Leech @Sea Dragon @hiemal @Aegon VII @bemused @Isobel Harper @Lost Melnibonean @Asshai Backwards @Lord Wraith @DarkSister1001 

If I missed anyone who did ask to be tagged, please let me know. There won't be many more updates as there are only so many books left that I haven't combed for hints. Just Dunk and Egg, TWOIAF, and whatever else GRRM puts out.

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1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Now that I've finished reading The Rogue Prince, I thought I'd share a few things that jumped out at me.

First there is a lot of blood around Daemon. He remarks that Dark Sister "has a thirst for blood" and he spills a lot of blood, even his dragon is called Blood Wyrm by the small folk. This reminds me of Daario a bit, but could also remind anyone of other characters, specifically any sellsword.

Let's look at some quotes now:

We already have Dany describing Daario as a monster. Whether he could be a great man is subject to debate, but he's definitely got leadership skills and an ability to strategize.

He's also described as "ambitious" and "impetuous." All things that could easily apply to Daario...and other characters as well, but those traits really come out in the Targaryen line it seems.

Emphasis mine because that part is totally Daario. I also find their warrior-ness to be very similar. While we don't know at what age Daario became proficient with weapons we do know that he's not all that old and is quite deadly. Not having an ancestral weapon around, Daario instead has some custom made hilts for his own blades. 

This is about Daemon's tenure as Lord Commander of the City Watch of King's Landing. I can't say with any certainty that Daario would take the same measures, but it wouldn't surprise me if he would. I could absolutely see him killing men in a street brawl, and very much approving of the gold cloaks that Daemon gave to all the watchmen.

Daemon spent a lot of time in the winesinks, gaming pits, and brothels of the city. It was said he had a fondness for deflowering virgins. I think he'd approve of the hilts on Daario's blades. 

Daemon was described as being everything his brother Viserys I was not...

Remind you of anyone?

Next we'll take a look at Daemon's reaction to finding out his brother was going to marry again, to a young girl who could potentially provide an heir.

Wow, Daemon. A little volatile are we? This does remind me just a tad of Daario's having to be restrained from killing the false turncloaks (that looks redundant, doesn't it?).

Now, on to the division at court. As many of us already know, the terms greens and blacks derive from what Rhaenyra and Alicent were wearing at a particular tourney. Daemon returned to court after this color fracture had begun. 

I don't recall any specific references to Daario and silver, but he does show up with gold.

Interesting, huh?

Now let's move on to the way Daemon interacts with his niece.

What does this have to do with Daario? Not much. Unless you imagine him and Dany in King's Landing with a whole family of Targs around them, and a dragon that he rides, and money to burn. In that kind of setting, he could shower her with precious gifts, read her poetry, do everything with her. And being a pampered princess she wouldn't have much better to do than go hawking and sailing and flying whenever she wanted.

As it is, Daario gives Dany flowers (the only gift at his disposal really), says poetic things to her, offers to bring her the heads of her enemies (and does occasionally) praises her beauty, and makes mock of those around her who he dislikes.

Daemon and Daario also both like their women feisty and with at least a hint of power. For his second wife Daemon chose Lady Laena Velaryon, whose mother was Rhaenys the Queen Who Never Was. Laena had a fiery personality of her own, and had claimed no less a mount than Vhagar who was at that time the oldest and largest Targaryen dragon.

Daemon also married Laena without his brother the king's knowledge or consent, an action he would repeat when he later married Rhaenyra. Daemon and Daario both seem to know how to go as far as they can possibly get away with, but no farther. They don't worry too much about authority figures over them, but they stop just short of total insubordination/treason.

No proof on this point but...Daemon is sometimes said to have been responsible for the deaths of both Rhaenrya's sworn shield (and possible lover) Harwin Strong, and her husband Laenor Velaryon. As I said there's no proof, but it puts me in mind of Daario's comment about killing Dany's betrothed...and a whole bunch of Meereenese nobles at her wedding feast. Whether Daemon was in fact complicit in those two deaths or not is irrelevant though as it's enough that his reputation makes people willing to believe he was involved. And he did murder Ser Vaemond Velyaron on Rhaenyra's orders, when Vaemond pressed a claim to Driftmark to rival her sons' claims to the Velaryon seat. Daemon is not averse to getting his hands dirty, and even fed what was left of Ser Vaemond to his dragon.

Remember what Dany said about Daario and eating the burned horse meat? That he'd laugh and hack a chunk off and join her. Seems to me Daemon would do the same.

The final sentences in the story...

Bold deeds. Daario has some of them to his credit. Black crimes. Killing his partners might qualify. Heroic death...well not so far. We'll wait and see, but there will certainly be carnage to follow.

I don't know if they'll break but Daario's men are called the Stormcrows. Perhaps they will break "the storm, the first storm and the last."

Of course we all know that dragons will dance and die in the coming books.

Thanks for wading through this.

Tag time. I can't recall who all wanted to be tagged at updates so I apologize if you did not want to be tagged.  @Curled Finger @The Fattest Leech @Sea Dragon @hiemal @Aegon VII @bemused @Isobel Harper @Lost Melnibonean @Asshai Backwards @Lord Wraith @DarkSister1001 

If I missed anyone who did ask to be tagged, please let me know. There won't be many more updates as there are only so many books left that I haven't combed for hints. Just Dunk and Egg, TWOIAF, and whatever else GRRM puts out.

Interesting connections. But do keep in mind that virtually every dragon or dragon seed we find in 300 AC will descend from Daemon Targaryen. Did you notice that he raised an army of "second sons?" 

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Posted (edited)

What a coincidence?!?!

I just started reading GRRM's vampire novel Fevre Dream, and although I am not too far along yet, we have a main vampire named Damon(Daemon). Hmmm.... :idea:

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Interesting connections. But do keep in mind that virtually every dragon or dragon seed we find in 300 AC will descend from Daemon Targaryen. Did you notice that he raised an army of "second sons?" 

Yes that caught my eye as well. And you're right that all of them descend from Daemon, but of all the characters with possible Targaryen blood in the series, I have to say Daario is the one I think most likely to try a mid-air dragon to dragon jump.

4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

What a coincidence?!?!

I just started reading GRRM's vampire novel Fevre Dream, and although I am not too far along yet, we have a main vampire named Damon(Daemon). Hmmm.... :idea:

Like I said there's a lot of blood around him. LOL

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To be honest, Daario comes of to me more like a hustler than a hardass. And a hustler who is initially down on his luck. In Clash Baristan commented on the Titan's bastard and the Second Sons as being the dregs of the free companies for them to employed by the Yunkai'i. It can be concluded that the same applies to the Stormcrows.

You can't say that Daario's persona isn't affected in the extreme. He is all flash and yet in Clash Dany also notices the wear and tear of his outfit. That is poverty. It looks someone who is spending all he has on show rather than on substance. Even his weapons are more about flash. He is exactly the kind of hanger on you'd expect to go with Dany's mismatched and improvised court.

And he had it made good. Dany made him part of her councils and gave him important jobs actually handling money. I would bet that a lot made it in his pockets. And Dany even expects it. And of course with Dany going more legitimate and officious and sueing for peace, he sees his influence dwindling and tries to sabotage it any way he can.

It is inevitable that Dany as a new and rising power would garner all sorts of opportunists around her and he fits the bill. And Dany fell for him because he presents an escape for the responsibilities and pressures of her crown and the compromises she has to make, as she is tempted to forgo prudence and restraint and burn it all to ash.

As for him being a Blackfyre ... Frankly I don't see the point in terms of the narrative, or character development. It could be interesting on showing how they had fallen on hard times, with Aegon's mother being a sex slave in Lys and him being a nobody sellsword.

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On 14.2.2017 at 9:58 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Next let’s us move on to a section I call Game of Quotes. This game will be played over four rounds, and separated into three posts (because two of the rounds are a lot longer than the other two).

 

 

 

Round One: examining how Daario tends to pop up in Dany’s thoughts in connection with her identity as a Targaryen.

 

 

 

Three chapters, four references. And I didn’t include a couple of blood references that I found interesting despite their lacking the fire half of the Targ words, but I will be happy to share those as well upon request.

 

Extra crackpot for you

What if the three headed dragon is blackfyres? and dany is the fourth dragon (targ)?

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5 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

To be honest, Daario comes of to me more like a hustler than a hardass. And a hustler who is initially down on his luck. In Clash Baristan commented on the Titan's bastard and the Second Sons as being the dregs of the free companies for them to employed by the Yunkai'i. It can be concluded that the same applies to the Stormcrows.

You can't say that Daario's persona isn't affected in the extreme. He is all flash and yet in Clash Dany also notices the wear and tear of his outfit. That is poverty. It looks someone who is spending all he has on show rather than on substance. Even his weapons are more about flash. He is exactly the kind of hanger on you'd expect to go with Dany's mismatched and improvised court.

And he had it made good. Dany made him part of her councils and gave him important jobs actually handling money. I would bet that a lot made it in his pockets. And Dany even expects it. And of course with Dany going more legitimate and officious and sueing for peace, he sees his influence dwindling and tries to sabotage it any way he can.

It is inevitable that Dany as a new and rising power would garner all sorts of opportunists around her and he fits the bill. And Dany fell for him because he presents an escape for the responsibilities and pressures of her crown and the compromises she has to make, as she is tempted to forgo prudence and restraint and burn it all to ash.

As for him being a Blackfyre ... Frankly I don't see the point in terms of the narrative, or character development. It could be interesting on showing how they had fallen on hard times, with Aegon's mother being a sex slave in Lys and him being a nobody sellsword.

Okay. My personal take on a hustler is that they're not going to decapitate their co-captains over a disagreement. That's more of a badass or villain thing to me. I can't see Littlefinger (a hustler if ever there was one) for example personally decapitating anyone. He might get blood on his clothes. The mark of a true badass could be said to be a willingness to get oneself dirty. 

That has no bearing on what he is, or is capable of, or his ancestry. He deliberately attracts attention, yes. I covered that.

I agree that his weapons are flashy, but that doesn't make them any less deadly.

That is also warfare. And of course it's poverty. Men do not become sellswords just for the thrill of it. They do it for money.

If he was intent on sabotaging her efforts because of his own dwindling importance and power, he would just sabotage them, not make comments about killing her betrothed and go out and get drunk off his ass when she says she can't marry him.

All right. I see the points, but we all see different things in the books, which is part of what makes the series so great. Thank you for taking the time to read through the thread and offer your thoughts.

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19 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Extra crackpot for you

What if the three headed dragon is blackfyres? and dany is the fourth dragon (targ)?

That is a fun idea, but I don't know if it would work. If the woods witch was correct, the main head of the dragon has to come of Aerys and Rhaella's line, and since the Blackfyres split from the main line decades before their marriage it means no Blackfyre has the required lineage.

But here's another fun twist: the Dragon that was Promised comes of Aerys and Rhaella's line, but not because of their Targaryen blood, because of their Blackwood blood from Aegon V's queen, or their Dayne blood from Maekar's wife.

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1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

That is a fun idea, but I don't know if it would work. If the woods witch was correct, the main head of the dragon has to come of Aerys and Rhaella's line, and since the Blackfyres split from the main line decades before their marriage it means no Blackfyre has the required lineage.

But here's another fun twist: the Dragon that was Promised comes of Aerys and Rhaella's line, but not because of their Targaryen blood, because of their Blackwood blood from Aegon V's queen, or their Dayne blood from Maekar's wife.

Maybe there was a blackfyre named aerys? Personally i dont believe in the prophecies as a must but G.R.R.M seem to have chosen to use them as foreshadowing.

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3 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Maybe there was a blackfyre named aerys? Personally i dont believe in the prophecies as a must but G.R.R.M seem to have chosen to use them as foreshadowing.

There'd have to also be a Blackfyre named Rhaella. Which is possible but I don't think we'll see that.

We may see GRRM spinning everything around and the prophecies not mattering though.

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