Vaedys Targaryen

Rhaegar's final words

103 posts in this topic

Wow. I don't have the app but this is pretty interesting. I don't like the idea that this information was revealed in an app, but I guess if the author agreed to release it there then I guess that is ok? 

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On 5/6/2017 at 2:22 AM, SFDanny said:

The last option is interesting only because it is possible one should also include the possibility that instead of "Lyanna" Rhaegar murmurs "Lya." The shortening of Lyanna Ned uses when he makes his promise at her deathbed.

I recently realized there's a parallel to support this:

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And her betrothed looked at her with the cool grey eyes of a Stark and promised to spare the boy who loved her.

That fight was over almost as soon as it began. Brandon was a man grown, and he drove Littlefinger all the way across the bailey and down the water stair, raining steel on him with every step, until the boy was staggering and bleeding from a dozen wounds. "Yield!" he called, more than once, but Petyr would only shake his head and fight on, grimly. When the river was lapping at their ankles, Brandon finally ended it, with a brutal backhand cut that bit through Petyr's rings and leather into the soft flesh below the ribs, so deep that Catelyn was certain that the wound was mortal. He looked at her as he fell and murmured "Cat" as the bright blood came flowing out between his mailed fingers. She thought she had forgotten that. (Catelyn VII, AGOT)

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They had come together at the ford of the Trident while the battle crashed around them, Robert with his warhammer and his great antlered helm, the Targaryen prince armored all in black. On his breastplate was the three-headed dragon of his House, wrought all in rubies that flashed like fire in the sunlight. The waters of the Trident ran red around the hooves of their destriers as they circled and clashed, again and again, until at last a crushing blow from Robert's hammer stove in the dragon and the chest beneath it. When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream, while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free of his armor. (Eddard I, AGOT)

Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. (Daenerys IV, ACOK)

Leading a large host to the Trident, Rhaegar met Robert in battle. Dueling on horseback in the fording of the river, Rhaegar was killed after giving Robert a serious wound. He would die with Lyanna's name on his lips. (A World of Ice and Fire, Rhaegar Targaryen)

Petyr's duel with Brandon bears similarities to Rhaegar's duel with Robert. When Petyr murmured Catelyn's name, he shortened it to "Cat," perhaps hinting that when Rhaegar murmured Lyanna's name, he shortened it to "Lya," which Ned also did when he made his promise to her, as you pointed out.

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"I promise," he whispered. "Lya, I promise …" (Eddard X, AGOT)

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45 minutes ago, Shmedricko said:

I recently realized there's a parallel to support this:

Petyr's duel with Brandon bears similarities to Rhaegar's duel with Robert. When Petyr murmured Catelyn's name, he shortened it to "Cat," perhaps hinting that when Rhaegar murmured Lyanna's name, he shortened it to "Lya," which Ned also did when he made his promise to her, as you pointed out.

Excellent catch! I hadn't made the parallel.

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1 hour ago, Shmedricko said:

I recently realized there's a parallel to support this:

Petyr's duel with Brandon bears similarities to Rhaegar's duel with Robert. When Petyr murmured Catelyn's name, he shortened it to "Cat," perhaps hinting that when Rhaegar murmured Lyanna's name, he shortened it to "Lya," which Ned also did when he made his promise to her, as you pointed out.

Damn, this is an amazing catch that I have never seen discussed before. I find it interesting that LF had a wound cat was certain was mortal. Hmmm, any possibility this is suggesting Rhaegar survived the trident, same as LF? They both have had bael the bard connections as well.

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2 hours ago, Shmedricko said:
On 5/6/2017 at 2:22 AM, SFDanny said:

 

I recently realized there's a parallel to support this:

There's actually more to that parallel... if you back up a bit in that quote of Cat's when she first walks down memory lane, you get a fainter echo:

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They met in the lower bailey of Riverrun. When Brandon saw that Petyr wore only helm and breastplate and mail, he took off most of his armor. Petyr had begged her for a favor he might wear, but she had turned him away. Her lord father promised her to Brandon Stark, and so it was to him that she gave her token, a pale blue handscarf she had embroidered with the leaping trout of Riverrun. As she pressed it into his hand, she pleaded with him. "He is only a foolish boy, but I have loved him like a brother. It would grieve me to see him die." And her betrothed looked at her with the cool grey eyes of a Stark and promised to spare the boy who loved her. 

A pale blue scarf, a maiden pleading to her betrothed (a Stark) to spare the life of someone, a promise extracted from that Stark.

I find it interesting that in this particular passage, the maiden in question cares for the underdog like a brother - this is not a plea based on romantic love - and the underdog's romantic love for the maiden is completely unrequited.

Also, someone here, @ravenous reader I believe?  had a great discussion going on about Petyr perhaps purposely throwing this duel in order to lure Brandon - clad in heavy armor - to his death in the water...which likewise has interesting implications for the parallel.

Lots of stuff going on in this brief snippet, for sure.

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On 01/05/2017 at 10:57 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

I have the app and it does say that his last word was "Lyanna". George has also said the app is the carryover info that wouldn't fit in to the World book. I can find the interview later if you want. 

Could you post the link here, please?

Also, I have another doubt: when Robert is talking with Ned about Rhaegar's death or when someone else is remembering it, does it have Lyanna in context? I mean, could one assume Rhaegar's said her name as he was dying because they were talking about her earlier? Or has Rhaegar said only a woman's name? 

It's been a while since I read the books so I'd like to know if it's really in there or if I'm just imagining Robert saying that it was Lyanna's name what Rhaegar said. Thanks

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9 minutes ago, Gi_Varotti said:

Could you post the link here, please?

To be clear, a link to which bit of info? Naturally I cannot link to an app, because it is an app, but there is a video interview where he says the app stuff is carryover from the *World book.

It is in one of these videos. Sorry, it is late here and I don't have time to go through each one.

*Now, the World book was purposely written to be skewed to some history and in favor of the current Lannister blooded king (Cersei in actuality), but George did write 350,000 words that went into that 80,000 word book.

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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4 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

To be clear, a link to which bit of info? Naturally I cannot link to an app, because it is an app, but there is a video interview where he says the app stuff is carryover from the *World book.

It is in one of these videos. Sorry, it is late here and I don't have time to go through each one.

*Now, the World book was purposely written to be skewed to some history and in favor of the current Lannister blooded king (Cersei in actuality), but George did write 350,000 words that went into that 80,000 word book.

The info in the video, sorry I didn't make it clear. No need to go through them, I'll watch both. Thank you. 

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1 minute ago, Gi_Varotti said:

The info in the video, sorry I didn't make it clear. No need to go through them, I'll watch both. Thank you. 

Watch the second one first. I seem to think it may be in that video where GRRM says the app info is carryover from the world book info that would not fit.

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4 minutes ago, Gi_Varotti said:

The info in the video, sorry I didn't make it clear. No need to go through them, I'll watch both. Thank you. 

Here is one I posted earlier in this thread.

I hope this helps.

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10 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Here is one I posted earlier in this thread.

I hope this helps.

It does! Thank you once again.

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Robert: (wild swing that is blocked by Rheagars shield)

Rheagar: that the best you can do?

Robert: (huge blow to the chest) now does that answer your question?

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9 hours ago, Javelin Catcher said:

Robert: (wild swing that is blocked by Rheagars shield)

Rheagar: that the best you can do?

Robert: (huge blow to the chest) now does that answer your question?

Rheagar:  Still not good enough to get Lyannaaaaah...

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Would Robert and Rhaegar be yelling at each other while they're fighting? I can so very easily see Robert leveling accusations at Rhaegar and Rhaegar jabbing back. I think I'd enjoy reading that. 

We got several POV characters dying and we sort of have their final thoughts. When Jon is stabbed, he does say Ghost, and we know that Jon thinks that he and Ghost are one, but he also thinks of Arya when he thinks "stick them with the pointy end." She was the family member he was the closest too, so while he does say Ghost's name, Arya is his last thought before he gets stabbed a third time and falls face first in the snow. 

When Kevan Lannister is wounded, he thinks of his children and of his before Varys talks his ear off about Aegon.

Before Catelyn gets her throat slit, she thinks about how much Ned loved her hair. 

These are the characters's inner thoughts, so since the stuff at the HotU is kinda of eh (to me), maybe it's just Rhaegar's inner thoughts reflected out that Dany sees in the visions? 

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On 5/1/2017 at 1:09 PM, JCRB's Honeypot said:

Rhaegar represents the "old Westeros", the more romantic and "fantasy-like" side of it. So, it makes sense that he dies with this romantic action.

Also, I think the reason for him to say so is to "curse" Robert Baratheon, albeit not intentionally. To remind him the reason why he's fighting at all, and that he had the one thing he wanted but would never have. Robert often dreams of himself killing Rhaegar, so I'm sure he also remember that Rhaegar died with Lyanna's name on his lips. This reminds him that Rhaegar took her away. He pretty much accepts that himself as he acknowledges that Rhaegar "won". The simple mention of Lyanna's name was enough to destroy Robert for the rest of his life.

Unless Rhaegar cried out"Hey cousin, Lyanna loved me back and eloped with me" before he died, I doubt Robert will think Lyanna did everything willingly. 

Rhaegar cried her name before death, this can only mean Rhaegar loved her, not vise versa. 

After all, if Rhaegar abducted Lyanna, he must have been extremely interested in/desired her, right? 

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If Rhaegar said "Lyanna" as he was dying, he must've been thinking of her very much. He left her while she was heavily pregnant so that he could fight. Perhaps he knew that he was going to die and said Lyanna because he missed her and regretted leaving her for the war at that dying moment. Lyanna was soon about to give birth, and Rhaegar was going to miss it. I think he was depply in love with Lyanna and they were a loving couple expecting a baby.

 

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On 4. 5. 2017 at 4:35 PM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Because of this, I believe that the name on the prince's lips is a name that Dany doesn't know, hence why she simply says "a woman's name on his lips".

You must take a look at the whole vision: there are a lot of generic terms used although Dany apparently knows what it is that she sees. The vision says "a blue flower", but a while later it is revealed as a blue rose. It is the same trick, allowing GRRM not to give too much information on things he wants to keep mysterious for a little longer.

Plus, if Dany never knew the name, she probably wouldn't be able to identify it as a woman's name, and if it was a name that didn't make any sense for Rhaegar to say, she should wonder at some point why the vision showed her that. Yet, she doesn't, which means she did recognize the name and it made sense to her, given what she knows about her brother. And since she knows that her brother supposedly "died for the woman he loved", there is only one name that would make sense to her. It couldn't have been "Elia", because when Barristan tells her that Rhaegar was "fond" of her, saying her name with his dying breath would be a contradiction and Dany should reflect on that, yet she doesn't.

 

As for the vision showing Rhaegar on foot while we "know" that they fought on horseback: I'd like to remind that the description of the duel comes from Ned who only turned up when Rhaegar was already dead, so he didn't see the circumstances of the deathblow. I have been proposing for some time that Rhaegar may have knocked Robert down when he hurt him, and then, being the honourable man, dismounted himself. We might get this piece from Jorah, who was on the Trident, and it would explain why he says that Rhaegar fought honourably. Furthermore, Rhaegar wouldn't be the first Targaryen getting himself killed by showing too much courtesy.

 

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8 hours ago, Ygrain said:

As for the vision showing Rhaegar on foot while we "know" that they fought on horseback: I'd like to remind that the description of the duel comes from Ned who only turned up when Rhaegar was already dead, so he didn't see the circumstances of the deathblow. I have been proposing for some time that Rhaegar may have knocked Robert down when he hurt him, and then, being the honourable man, dismounted himself. We might get this piece from Jorah, who was on the Trident, and it would explain why he says that Rhaegar fought honourably. Furthermore, Rhaegar wouldn't be the first Targaryen getting himself killed by showing too much courtesy.

This is something I have been wondering myself, especially after reading The Sworn Sword and the broad strokes of what happened at the Redgrass Field Battle (the fight between Daemon and Gwayne Corbray). It would really paint a different picture of what happened at the Trident. I can see it going down like this. 

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Rhaegar: "Fucking the whole Kingdom and my family, to fuck a chick from the north...totally worth it".

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Her brother Rhaegar battling the Usurper in the bloody waters of the Trident and dying for the woman he loved.

 

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"Death?" Dany wrapped her arms around herself protectively, rocked back and forth on her heels. "My death?" She told herself she would die for him, if she must. She was the blood of the dragon, she would not be afraid. Her brother Rhaegar had died for the woman he loved.

 

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Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . .

 

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When I died in the Battle of the Trident. I fought for Prince Rhaegar, though he never knew my name. 

 

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