larrytheimp

Bakker LII: Ol' Golgotterath Blues

387 posts in this topic

 

***Contains spoilers from THE UNHOLY CONSULT****

__-----_

This is the perpetual thread devoted to the works of R. Scott Bakker, primarily the books in The Second Apocalypse series, the first novel is The Darkness that Comes Before, the seventh novel was published on July 4, 2017 and is The Unholy Consult.  It is currently available for purchase.

This thread is for the series through The Unholy Consult and contains spoilers through that novel.

The series is called The Second Apocalypse and is currently comprised of two sub-series, a trilogy and a quartet. Potentially, there will be a third series, although the author has stated that the quartet completes his original vision for the story. 

The first trilogy of books is subtitled The Prince of Nothing these three books are:

  1. The Darkness that Comes Before
  2. The Warrior Prophet
  3. The Thousandfold Thought

The second quartet of books is subtitled The Aspect Emperor, these four books are:

  1. The Judging Eye
  2. The White-Luck Warrior
  3. The Great Ordeal
  4. The Unholy Consult 

There is a third set of books presumably planned subtitled The No God.

The Unholy Consult also includes an expanded Appendix/Encyclopedic Glossary. The original Glossary exists currently only at the end of the third book, The Thousandfold Thought. 

Additionally, Bakker has published three short stories, The False Sun and The Four Revelations of Cinial'jin on Bakker's Blog Three Pound Brain(and now also as appendices in The Unholy Consult) and The Knife of Many Hands, which is available for purchase. There is also another short story, The Carathayan, available for purchase in this anthology (along with a introduction by Bakker)This thread contains spoilers for these publications. The False Sun is the most discussed work of these three shorts.

Since Bakker's writing uses layers of revelation, newcomers are strongly advised to finish the books before coming here; otherwise the spoilers will rot your soul. Eternally.

Of potential interest, Bakker did stop by the board shortly after the release of The Great Ordeal and did answer several questions.  That discussion can be found here.

Most denizens of this thread have also read Bakker's non-fantasy novels Neuropath and Disciple of the Dog, but the spoiler policy is unclear. You are advised to hide crucial plot points in those novels.

Thanks to Happy Ent for the intro to the thread.

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Will we ever get an adaptation that not only does the series justice but it polishes the rough edges ? 

 

If yes, how would you do it ? What would you cut/add ?

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Quote

Since Bakker's writing uses layers of revelation, newcomers are strongly advised to finish the books before coming here; otherwise the spoilers will rot your soul. Eternally.

We might have to revise this

8 minutes ago, Lutarez said:

Will we ever get an adaptation that not only does the series justice but it polishes the rough edges ? 

 

If yes, how would you do it ? What would you cut/add ?

Well, Amazon bought the option and then ditched it in favor of doing basically anything else. Right now a story about an explicitly sexist world where God is horrible may not be the great sell to the general masses. I thought @Mark Erikson had a great idea to focus on the sociopathic monk thing first and foremost as the first ep, and skip a lot of the other bits. 

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I think most adaptations would be pulling a lot of punches even if they try to remain faithful to the original and I don't fully blame them for that. 

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There is far to much rape, far too many throbbing phallus', far too much absolute atrocity after atrocity. 

I dont think they could do it justice tbh. It would make Game of Thrones seem extremely tame in comparison.

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GoT struggles with the budget of the big battle scenes, and the battles are bigger and more important in Second Apocalypse than in GoT.  There's no way you can get the budget you'd need to do this series justice, because it lacks the widespread appeal even of GoT.

Really it has to be animated to keep the budget reasonable.  Something like Netflix's Castlevania series but longer might be possible.  Even still it is hard to imagine it being both faithful to the books.  Too much rape, too anti-religion, and too few likeable characters. 

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On 11/1/2017 at 0:22 PM, Maithanet said:

Really it has to be animated to keep the budget reasonable.  Something like Netflix's Castlevania series but longer might be possible.  Even still it is hard to imagine it being both faithful to the books.  Too much rape, too anti-religion, and too few likeable characters. 

I agree about the animation, though I don't think the anti-religious overtones would be an issue.

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Feels like the Thomas Covenant series is your canary in the coal mine for this.  If that ever gets made then the climate might be right for Bakker's work.

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Here's a question - if Cnaiur becomes a ciphrang, why doesn't Aurang become a ciphrang? Did Aurang never go mad enough?

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On 10/31/2017 at 4:06 PM, Lutarez said:

Will we ever get an adaptation that not only does the series justice but it polishes the rough edges ? 

 

If yes, how would you do it ? What would you cut/add ?

I'd say the starship troopers approach is the best one, ignore everything about what the author believes and turn it into an effective and entertaining story that (probably) satirizes the source material as well as society.

would you like to know more?

 

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6 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

I'd say the starship troopers approach is the best one, ignore everything about what the author believes and turn it into an effective and entertaining story that (probably) satirizes the source material as well as society.

would you like to know more?

 

 

So..Sword of Truth? :P

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10 hours ago, Callan S. said:

Here's a question - if Cnaiur becomes a ciphrang, why doesn't Aurang become a ciphrang? Did Aurang never go mad enough?

I don't think becoming a ciphrang (or a god?) is just about being super-damned, though that does appear to be part of it. It could be that Aurang's soul wasn't significant enough to become a ciphrang.

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I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of Inchoroi/Non Men ended up being ciphrang. 

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2 hours ago, Dora Vee said:

I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of Inchoroi/Non Men ended up being ciphrang. 

I would be surprised if there were any Inchie ciphrang - they seem to be an avoid-damnation-machine weapon race.   I think becoming a Ciphrang takes some kind of mad passion like an all consuming hate or fury.  See Kosoter and Cnauir.  I don't think the inchoroi are tortured enough to be Ciphrang.

Nonmen, however, yeah for sure.

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2 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

I would be surprised if there were any Inchie ciphrang - they seem to be an avoid-damnation-machine weapon race.   I think becoming a Ciphrang takes some kind of mad passion like an all consuming hate or fury.  See Kosoter and Cnauir.  I don't think the inchoroi are tortured enough to be Ciphrang.

Nonmen, however, yeah for sure.

Or, pure evil or willingness to sacrifice anything (but Esme), to gain what you need. So, if venture to say that Kelhus would be closer to a God than a Ciphrang. And, might not be either, but hiding his soul in decapitants. You heard it here first :tinfoil hat:, Kellhus translocates to the head tied in Sarl's beard, formerly known as The Captain. One head is as good as an other. 

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3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

I would be surprised if there were any Inchie ciphrang - they seem to be an avoid-damnation-machine weapon race.   I think becoming a Ciphrang takes some kind of mad passion like an all consuming hate or fury.  See Kosoter and Cnauir.  I don't think the inchoroi are tortured enough to be Ciphrang.

Nonmen, however, yeah for sure.

IIRC Bakker outright confirmed that Gin'Yursis is a Ciphrang. 

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17 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

I think becoming a Ciphrang takes some kind of mad passion like an all consuming hate or fury.  See Kosoter and Cnauir.  I don't think the inchoroi are tortured enough to be Ciphrang.

Nonmen, however, yeah for sure.

I doubt it. Remember Mimara saw Serwa as a Ciphrang too.

Edited by Let's Get Kraken

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In the case of Serwa, it might be because of her sorcerers power. She doesn't strike me as evil or all that hateful.

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On 11/11/2017 at 9:11 AM, larrytheimp said:

 I think becoming a Ciphrang takes some kind of mad passion like an all consuming hate or fury.  See Kosoter and Cnauir.  I don't think the inchoroi are tortured enough to be Ciphrang.

Genuinely are a race of lovers rather than haters?

 

On 11/11/2017 at 0:55 AM, Let's Get Kraken said:

I don't think becoming a ciphrang (or a god?) is just about being super-damned

Pretty sure Aurang has done many more things over his millennia than Cnaiur has done over his decades.

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12 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

I doubt it. Remember Mimara saw Serwa as a Ciphrang too.

Really? I don't remember that?

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