The Last Jedi, not the last spoiler thread

[Corvinus85]

10 hours ago, Werthead said:

Star Wars has always played fast and loose with physics. Correctly, a larger ship with (relatively) large engines and unlimited fuel would be able to burn faster and harder than a smaller ship with smaller engines, especially with artificial gravity counteracting any acceleration effects. So whilst Snoke's ship might drop behind (note: a 60,000-metre-wide ship looks cool but is moronically impractical) the Star Destroyers would easily overhaul the Rebel ships: they're bigger and have more mass to push, but their engines are also insanely bigger relative to their size compared to the Rebel ships.

In this season of Rebels, Mandalorians with jet packs can keep up with TIE fighters and the Ghost, so.... yeah, physics, what's that?

[Caligula_K3]

Tons of debate happening here (thankfully, more civilly than on the rest of the internet). For what it's worth, I really liked it. I liked The Force Awakens a lot too. This one has taken more time to digest, and I really think I need a second viewing to consider how I'd rank it compared to other Star Wars movies. But a couple of thoughts:

Like just about everybody, I thought the Rose/Finn plotline was bad. I don't think it's as useless as many claim: the failure of their mission sets the climax in motion, and learning from failure is the key theme of the movie. And it's frustrating how much potential there is here: the codebreaker is such a fun character, Finn should be a fun character, and Rose is a good addition to the main cast. But it just drags and drags, and it beats you over the head with it's message, and then there's the chase scene, which is just boring and cheesy.

Unlike many others, I love the solution to the mystery of Rey's parents. I won't try to argue that The Force Awakens didn't make this question a mystery: it did! But no answer to this question that I heard in the past two years was at all satisfying. Han and Leia's daughter? What, they forgot they had a daughter? Luke's kid? And he abandoned her to be a junkyard slave? Obi Wan's daughter? Doesn't that really stretch the timeline? In the end, the answer The Last Jedi gives is much more elegant, pulls the rug out from under us, and fits in with the themes of the movie. I don't need every hero to be related to all the other heroes, and I'm glad Johnson doesn't either.

I enjoyed the Poe/Leia plotline more than e one, but I agree that it was missing some oomph. Johnson should have watched 33 again: part of the effectiveness of the tension that episode builds is not only the constant impending threat of the enemy, but the paranoia of knowing that anyone can be a traitor. A traitor would have very much helped this plotline, I think. As for Leia's force space walk: it was cheesy, but I found it fun. I can see why some would dislike it, but I'm kind of baffled by the amount of hate it gets.

Rey, Ren, and Luke are the heart of the movie, and I couldn't be happier with how their plotlines turned out. I loved Hamill's depiction of an older, cynical, weary Luke, and I thought the climax was effective, hilarious, and moving. Ren is everything I want out of a villain. The throne room scene is a masterpiece, and I loved Snoke's inglorious death (though I agree that the character was owed a scene where we learned something about him).

Other miscellaneous things. Captain Plasma is a wasted character. Domnall Gleeson, an actor I like, really needs to stop overplaying Hux. Luke drinking alien green milk is an amazing scene and I won't hear otherwise. The hyperspace jump was just fucking cool, and I don't care if it makes sense or not. It's Star Wars, half of it has never made sense. It's always been a series that rewards sometimes turning off your brain and just appreciating how awesome something is.

It was a weird movie in many ways, which took a lot of risks. Some of those risks didn't always pay off, but I enjoyed most of the movie and thought that parts were brilliant in ways that The Force Awakens rarely was, even if it was more consistent. But my close friend, who I've been watching and reading and talking about Star Wars with for about twenty years now, thinks the movie is absolute garbage with next to no redeeming qualities, the first time we've ever disagreed this much about a Star Wars movie. I find it fascinating how divisive The Last Jedi is.

[DMC]

15 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I wonder if they've ever had to yell cut during a duel scene because one of the actors was making lightsaber noises. 

The animated debates in these threads have been quite interesting to observe - and I'm going to refrain from adding any further thoughts until I see it again - but this is, by far, my favorite post.

[Werthead]

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Take ESB: The falcon travels from Hoth system to Bespin without a hyperdrive, which should take years even if its the next system.  Handwaved away while people complain about the lightspeed ram.

The Falcon had an emergency backup hyperdrive which is extremely slow compared to the Falcon's main drive (the Falcon's normal drive is a x0.5 and the backup is x10, compared to a standard YT-1300's x2 standard and x12 backup; lower is better). The backup hyperdrive has to be plugged into the drive system and the main system disengaged, you have to go back there and manually do it, which is a pain in the arse, which is what Han was trying to do when the ship entered the asteroid field.

Obviously a retcon but a rather rapid one (I think it was canonised in the RPG, which basically created the Expanded Universe, but IIRC either Lucas or Kurtz provided it as an answer to a fan question not long after the film came out). it also makes perfect sense. The crew of every ship in the galaxy is basically risking their lives on this one piece of equipment, so having a backup is a good idea if you have the space for it.

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I don't know why everyone assumes Rey is correct when she says her parents left Jakku

Because Rey was looking at a starship launching off the surface and we saw this in a flashback. This is actually the biggest inconsistency with the "they're nobody" story. Ren said they died on Jakku but Rey saw them blasting off in a spacecraft. She was about 5, which is young but not dumb enough not to have seen them get in a spaceship.

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OK, question, how are they able to track the Falcon in ANH? Isn't that hyperdrive tracking?

Vader put a homing beacon on the ship. When the Falcon came out of hyperspace the beacon transmitted the ship's location to the Imperials. Tarkin even asks him if he's secured the homing beacon and Vader says "Yup, totes."

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I wonder if they've ever had to yell cut during a duel scene because one of the actors was making lightsaber noises. 

Yup. George Lucas had to keep telling Ewan Magregor off for this in TPM.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Just got back from seeing it a second time.

I was very conflicted the first time I saw it (Friday) and now I’ve had time to think.

Man, I’m sorry a lot of you didn’t like it, because I bloody loved it the second time around. I think it’s going to age like a fine wine.

 

[Kalbear]

4 hours ago, aceluby said:

Can I take that bet?  Even my mom wondered who Rey's parents were going to be coming out of the theater.  It was literally the biggest open question left by the film.  I'm seriously wondering how you missed that.

The biggest question was why the fuck Luke was hiding this whole time and what he was going to do. Reys parentage was obviously a question (because otherwise why make it a mystery) but it certainly wasn't the main question. 

It also wasn't necessary to be answered as something special. Rey not knowing what happened to her parents informs her character and how she looks for role models. It is not a requirement that they in turn are amazing, nor does it mean that them being ordinary makes the answer less interesting. 

[RumHam]

33 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Yup. George Lucas had to keep telling Ewan Magregor off for this in TPM.

Heh, he continues to be the best thing about the prequels. That reminds me of something I meant to check/ask. In the original movie does Kenobi ever use the force prior to lowering the shields on the death star? I know Vader realizes he's there around that time. I'm wondering if he "cut himself off from the force" like Luke did and that's how he avoided detection for all those years. That could make the Obi movie a lot more interesting.

Like maybe a few years into his exile some nerf herders come across his hut while he's out and steal Anakin's light saber and he has to get it back without tapping into the force. 

On second thought make the stakes something that we don't know the outcome of. Like he's just trying to defend some homesteaders who are not related to anyone we know from some bad dudes. Maybe even let him fail and live with the fact that he could have saved them I (and many others who died under the empire) if he'd used the force. 

Edit: I totally forgot "these aren't the droids you're looking for." Somehow. But I don't think that ruins the theory. Once he had Luke he might be willing to start using the force again for the first time in years. Knowing a confrontation with Vader was inevitable and that he would die. 

[Caligula_K3]

17 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Heh, he continues to be the best thing about the prequels. That reminds me of something I meant to check/ask. In the original movie does Kenobi ever use the force prior to lowering the shields on the death star? I know Vader realizes he's there around that time. I'm wondering if he "cut himself off from the force" like Luke did and that's how he avoided detection for all those years. That could make the Obi movie a lot more interesting.

 

Ya, he uses the Jedi mind trick on the storm troopers on Tatooine. "These aren't the droids you're looking for."

[Kalbear]

And the weird ass howls he does with the sand people. 

And in rebels he does stuff. 

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

And the weird ass howls he does with the sand people. 

And in rebels he does stuff. 

I always thought the howls were just something he picked up during his hermit life. Never thought it was force related. Like how hunters use duck calls and stuff. I remember him lightsabering in rebels I couldn't remember if he did anything else. 

8 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Ya, he uses the Jedi mind trick on the storm troopers on Tatotooine. "These aren't the droids you're looking for."

I realized that two seconds after I posted and felt pretty dumb. But I still think he could have cut himself off until the events of ANH. It's easy to imagine Ghost Yoda appearing and telling him to get ready to help Luke.

Of course then Vader should have detected him when he was on the planet. But then Vader also probably should have detected his own daughter when he was right in front of her. 

 

[DMC]

14 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

And the weird ass howls he does with the sand people. 

Did that really require the use of the force?

[HexMachina]

I like that the clues are there about Luke cutting himself off from the force before Rey tells him. He shows no reaction to Leia’s near death, has no idea Han died, doesn’t know Chewie is there...contrast with ESB where he immediately senses that Han and Leia are in danger and being harmed and it’s obvious all is not right with Luke. 

[RumHam]

Just now, HelenaExMachina said:

I like that the clues are there about Luke cutting himself off from the force before Rey tells him. He shows no reaction to Leia’s near death, has no idea Han died, doesn’t know Chewie is there...contrast with ESB where he immediately senses that Han and Leia are in danger and being harmed and it’s obvious all is not right with Luke. 

Ok. You just gave me a better idea. Obi-Wan cuts himself off from the force not to hide from anyone, but because he just can't fucking take all the death and general horror going on in the galaxy under the Emporer. 

(frankly I sorta know how he feels.)

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I’ve always thought the howls were created by him using the Force.

[Corvinus85]

I do love that in both movies, Kylo used with effect his controversial cross-guard. In TFA, he uses it offensively to injure Finn, and in TLJ, he uses it defensively against the weapons of the Praetorians.

[DMC]

13 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

contrast with ESB where he immediately senses that Han and Leia are in danger and being harmed and it’s obvious all is not right with Luke.

Didn't he deduce Han and Leia were in danger because Yoda implied it?  Could be totally wrong here, but that's how I recall off the top of my head.

Edit:  Nevermind.  From what I could find quickly Yoda and Obi-Wan try to talk him out of it after Luke "felt the force."  So, yeah.

[Astromech]

For the longest time I thought Obi Wan's Krayt Dragon call was just a Bantha.

[Kalbear]

Also for those of you that were sure that porgs and crystal foxes and the horse things were Disney- nope. All rian Johnson ideas. 

 

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-last-jedis-neal-scanlan-explains-why-canto-bight-is-a-game-changer?__source=Blastr_Vayner_Syfy_Facebook&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nealscanlan&utm_term=t5_lookalike&utm_content=link_ad

[Darth Richard II]

3 hours ago, RumHam said:

I wonder if they've ever had to yell cut during a duel scene because one of the actors was making lightsaber noises. 

 

 

Oh, Ewan McGregor did it all through Episode 1. They didn't notice til post and had to edit them out.

[Darth Richard II]

52 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Also for those of you that were sure that porgs and crystal foxes and the horse things were Disney- nope. All rian Johnson ideas. 

 

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-last-jedis-neal-scanlan-explains-why-canto-bight-is-a-game-changer?__source=Blastr_Vayner_Syfy_Facebook&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nealscanlan&utm_term=t5_lookalike&utm_content=link_ad

I actually thought this was the least merchandise filled film of all so far. Very few new creatures aliens compared to any other except maybe Empire.