Shadow of Asshai

Aegon is Faegon

104 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

OK... How does it address what I wrote?

your assumption that because the author is a "Male Feminist" he is giving dany all sorts of stuff with no repercussions.  You made it clear it bothered you, otherwise, you would not have brought it up. Men aren't "male feminists."  They are just feminists. Besides. Dany is suffering all sorts of repercussions. there is war, rebellion, disease, food shortages and a naval blockade. 

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7 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

GRRM is most likely going to make Daenerys queen in the end of the series,

thats not how asoiaf works at all.

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I am pretty sure Aegon is not a targ but I have doubts in him being a Blackfyre too. The clothed dragon, if it was meant to be Aegon, then a clothed dragon is actually not a dragon at all, and Blackfyres are dragons. The rusted dragon is a black dragon that turns into a red dragon, but it’s still a dragon. I don’t know, I get a feeling that Aegon being a Blackfyre is just a red herring.

Edited by Crona

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I'm absolutely sure that Young Griff is not son of Rhaegar.

Two reasons:

1. He is one of lies that Dany will slay - mummers dragon.

Illyrio and Varys are mummers, and fAegon is their dragon.

2. Timeframe.

Illyrio and Varys came to JonCon, and introduced to him Aegon, five years after Robert's Rebellion. One other thing that happened also five years after the Rebellion, is death of Willem Darry. So I think that in the beginning, Varys and Illyrio were planning to put Viserys on Iron Throne. They also helped Martells to get in contact with surviving Targaryens. They arranged agreement of marriage between Viserys and Arianne. Five years later, Viserys was 13 years old. By that time it was already obvious that he has a shitty personality, and that he is not a good leader, and he's going to be even a worse king. Thus they poisoned Willem Darry, and switched to Plan B - project fAegon.

Willem's death was necessary for several reasons. First of all he was protecting Dany and Viserys. Also he was their connection to Martells. By killing him, Varys and Illyrio got rid of Viserys, as future husband for Aryanne. And thus Aryanne was freed to marry with fAegon. There was still Dany, and they planned later to marry her, either with one of Martell boys, or with Dothraki Khal (in both cases to get aid for fAegon, from either Martells or Dothraki).

To prevent Martells and Jon Connington from ever getting in contact with Targaryen kids, and to prevent Targaryens from settling for long in one place, and finding protection or help from someone influential, they made Viserys and Dany to think, that Robert Baratheon is constantly chasing after them, that he's sending assassins to kill them. But those were lies. Varys indeed was reporting info about Targaryens to Robert. But prior that one poisoner with wine, Robert never sent anyone after them. This conclusion is based on what Robert said to Ned, in one of their conversations. That he should have killed Targaryen kids long ago, but he was listening to Jon Arryn, who forbade him to do it. 

Thus the fact that Willem Darry died, and at the same time Varys and Illyrio brought fAegon on stage, means that Willem's death wasn't natural, and that fAegon is indeed a fake.

I'm absolutely sure that fAegon is a Blackfyre, but I think that he is not son of Illyrio.

Its unlikely that both of them (Illyrio and Varys) are Blackfyres, thus only one of them is. And I think that it's Varys, and not Illyrio. When Aegon V was traveling over Westeros, under guise of Egg, he was shaving off his silver-gold hair, to hide his identity. Varys does the same. Also nowhere in any of five books, Varys' eye color wasn't described. It's another hint to his Blackfyre identity. One more is that he originally came from Lys. And also that he was castrated, most likely also in Lys. And what else do we have in Lys? - Pillow house in which Serra worked. Thus I think that Varys and Serra are brother and sister, and they both were sold by slavers to pillow house. That's where Varys was castrated. But later he either escaped from there, or he was thrown out, because he turned out to be unfit to become a pleasure slave.

Also I think that Varys and Serra are descendants of Calla Blackfyre and Bittersteel from one line, and Saera Targaryen from another line of their ancestors.

Thus Varys is real owner of Golden Company, and brother-in-law of Illyrio.

 

Very crazy tinfoil theory about possible ancestry of fAegon, pure speculations, just for fun (so don't open the spoiler, if you're not ready for a can of worms):

Spoiler

I don't agree that Serra was fAegon's mother. I think his mother is Septa Lemore. Furthermore in the past she was living under name Lady Jeyne Swann. The one that was traveling with her septa, and was saved from Kingswood Brotherhood by Barristan Selmy. They were attacked by Simon Toyne, whom Barristan killed. This happened at about the same time, when was conceived real Aegon Targaryen.

At that time there was a comet seen above King's Landing. Because of this comet Rhaegar thought, that Aegon is the Prince that was promised. But he was wrong, because that comet wasn't the one. The actual comet, that heralded the birth of the promised Prince, was The Bleeding Star of 298/299, that was seen above Planetos, shortly after Rhaego's birth. 

Though Rhaegar wasn't the only one who knew about the prophecy and followed signs. Quaithe, whose real identity is Shiera Seastar, decided to use coming of that comet, and artificially created opportunity for the promised Prince to be conceived by Blackfyres. She staged assault of Lady Jeyne by Simon Toyne, and arranged things in a way, that Jeyne was saved by Barristan Selmy. Both Jeyne and Simon willingly took part in this set up. Though probably Simon didn't thought that he will be killed in the process. Barristan saved Jeyne, and they had sex, that's when fAegon was conceived.

Simon Toyne most likely was relative of Myles Toyne, captain-general of Golden Company. House Swann are (and always were) supporters of Blackfyres. Barristan Selmy, in his childhood served as squire to Lord Manfred Swann. 

I think that Barristan Selmy is son of Quaithe (who is actually Shiera Seastar), and his father is one of this three - Bloodraven, Bittersteel, or Aenys Blackfyre. And Jeyne Swann probably also had a bit of Targaryen/Blackfyre blood. Her ancestor Lady Johanna Swann was Black Swann that ruled over Lys, and member of the Triarchy, that fought against Targaryens. I think that Jeyne Swann, Balon Swann, and other Swanns, are descendants of Johanna Swann, and not of her uncle who were Lord of Stonehelm, and the head of House Swann.

Here's where really crazy stuff begins:

Johanna was ruler of Lys, in all but name. And one of the most influential families in Lys was House Rogare. So I think that Johanna was wife or mistress of Lysandro the Magnificent, and gave birth to three of his children, including Larra Rogare. During the Dance of the Dragons, in 129 AC, Viserys II was caught by the Triarchy, and given to Sharako Lohar, admiral commander from Lys. Sharako was admirer of Johanna Swann. In 130 he was assassinated by a rival over the affections of the Black Swann. Maybe that rival was Johanna's husband Lysandro. Some time later Viserys ended up in Lys under the stewardship of Rogare family. So could be that Lysandro defeated Sharako, and took his possessions, and among them Viserys.

In 134, when Viserys was 12, he got married with Larra Rogare. If my assumptions are correct, then Aegon IV was descendant of Johanna Swann. Thus Daemon I Blackfyre was Johanna's great grandson.

In 139 Larra returned to Lys, where she died in 145 of unknown causes. When she died she was only 30 years old. Though maybe she didn't died. Maybe she went to Asshai to learn magic, and years later returned to 7K, under name Serenei of Lys, and became last mistress of her son Aegon IV. Thus Shiera Seastar is a product of incest, between mother and son. To Aegon IV she is his daughter, and half-sister thru their mother's side.

Even more farfetched stuff:

Also could be that when Larra returned to Lys, she was pregnant, and secretly gave birth to fourth child of Viserys II. This child years later went to 7K, and married into Swanns family. That's why Swanns were supporting Blackfyres during their First Rebellion, and why Quaithe/Shiera Seastar made her son Barristan Selmy to squire for Manfred Swann, and years later sent Lady Jeyne Swann to seduce Barristan, to give birth to his son fAegon. All that to gain a strong dragonblood for Blackfyres, and to make a Blackfyre and not a Targaryen offspring, to become the Prince that was promised, that will become a hero of Second Long Night, and after it will rule over the world.

As I said - a very crazy tinfoil theory.

Short summary of family tree in my theory:

Johanna Swann + Lysandro Rogare = Larra, Lysaro, Moredo.

Larra Rogare + Viserys II Targaryen = Aegon IV, Naerys, Aemon, Secret child.

Aegon IV + his cousin Daena = Daemon I Blackfyre.

Aegon IV + his sister Naerys = Daeron II, Daenerys Targaryen.

Aegon IV + Serenei of Lys/Larra Rogare = Shiera Seastar/Quaithe.

Secret child of Larra and Viserys (born in 139 or 140) + Lord or Lady of Stonehelm = House Swann (among descendants was Manfred Swann (probably grandson of Larra and Viserys), to whom squired Barristan Selmy; and Lady Jeyne Swann/Septa Lemore, mother of fAegon).

Daenerys Targaryen + Maron Martell = House Martell.

Daeron II + Mariah Martell (sister of Maron Martell) = Aegon V.

Shiera Seastar/Quaithe + Bloodraven or Bittersteel or Aenys Blackfyre = Barristan Selmy.

Barristan Selmy (born in 236 or 237) + Jeyne Swann/Septa Lemore = fAegon (born in 282).

Based on timeframe looks like Manfred Swann was from the same generation as Aegon V. Thus Aegon IV and Larra Rogare/Serenei of Lys, were Manfred's great uncle and aunt, and Aegon V was his first cousin. Lady Jeyne probably was Manfred's daughter. Then she is first cousin twice removed to Shiera Seastar/Quaithe, and second cousin once removed to Barristan Selmy, and third cousin of her own son fAegon. And Aegon IV and Larra Rogare/Serenei of Lys were Jayne's great-great uncle and aunt.

Conclusion - ASOIAF is full of incest.

And I'm very bored, and can't wait for next book. :( I want MORE. If not Winds of Winter, then at least The She-wolves of Winterfell. I so hope that in 2018 we will have at least something from GRRM.

 

Edited by Megorova

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26 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I'm absolutely sure that Young Griff is not son of Rhaegar.

Two reasons:

1. He is one of lies that Dany will slay - mummers dragon.

Illyrio and Varys are mummers, and fAegon is their dragon.

2. Timeframe.

Illyrio and Varys came to JonCon, and introduced to him Aegon, five years after Robert's Rebellion. One other thing that happened also five years after the Rebellion, is death of Willem Darry. So I think that in the beginning, Varys and Illyrio were planning to put Viserys on Iron Throne. They also helped Martells to get in contact with surviving Targaryens. They arranged agreement of marriage between Viserys and Arianne. Five years later, Viserys was 13 years old. By that time it was already obvious that he has a shitty personality, and that he is not a good leader, and he's going to be even a worse king. Thus they poisoned Willem Darry, and switched to Plan B - project fAegon.

Willem's death was necessary for several reasons. First of all he was protecting Dany and Viserys. Also he was their connection to Martells. By killing him, Varys and Illyrio got rid of Viserys, as future husband for Aryanne. And thus Aryanne was freed to marry with fAegon. There was still Dany, and they planned later to marry her, either with one of Martell boys, or with Dothraki Khal (in both cases to get aid for fAegon, from either Martells or Dothraki).

To prevent Martells and Jon Connington from ever getting in contact with Targaryen kids, and to prevent Targaryens from settling for long in one place, and finding protection or help from someone influential, they made Viserys and Dany to think, that Robert Baratheon is constantly chasing after them, that he's sending assassins to kill them. But those were lies. Varys indeed was reporting info about Targaryens to Robert. But prior that one poisoner with wine, Robert never sent anyone after them. This conclusion is based on what Robert said to Ned, in one of their conversations. That he should have killed Targaryen kids long ago, but he was listening to Jon Arryn, who forbade him to do it. 

Thus the fact that Willem Darry died, and at the same time Varys and Illyrio brought fAegon on stage, means that Willem's death wasn't natural, and that fAegon is indeed a fake.

I'm absolutely sure that fAegon is a Blackfyre, but I think that he is not son of Illyrio.

Its unlikely that both of them (Illyrio and Varys) are Blackfyres, thus only one of them is. And I think that it's Varys, and not Illyrio. When Aegon V was traveling over Westeros, under guise of Egg, he was shaving off his silver-gold hair, to hide his identity. Varys does the same. Also nowhere in any of five books, Varys' eye color wasn't described. It's another hint to his Blackfyre identity. One more is that he originally came from Lys. And also that he was castrated, most likely also in Lys. And what else do we have in Lys? - Pillow house in which Serra worked. Thus I think that Varys and Serra are brother and sister, and they both were sold by slavers to pillow house. That's where Varys was castrated. But later he either escaped from there, or he was thrown out, because he turned out to be unfit to become a pleasure slave.

Also I think that Varys and Serra are descendants of Calla Blackfyre and Bittersteel from one line, and Saera Targaryen from another line of their ancestors.

Thus Varys is real owner of Golden Company, and brother-in-law of Illyrio.

 

Very crazy tinfoil theory about possible ancestry of fAegon, pure speculations, just for fun (so don't open the spoiler, if you're not ready for a can of worms):

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't agree that Serra was fAegon's mother. I think his mother is Septa Lemore. Furthermore in the past she was living under name Lady Jeyne Swann. The one that was traveling with her septa, and was saved from Kingswood Brotherhood by Barristan Selmy. They were attacked by Simon Toyne, whom Barristan killed. This happened at about the same time, when was conceived real Aegon Targaryen.

At that time there was a comet seen above King's Landing. Because of this comet Rhaegar thought, that Aegon is the Prince that was promised. But he was wrong, because that comet wasn't the one. The actual comet, that heralded the birth of the promised Prince, was The Bleeding Star of 298/299, that was seen above Planetos, shortly after Rhaego's birth. 

Though Rhaegar wasn't the only one who knew about the prophecy and followed signs. Quaithe, whose real identity is Shiera Seastar, decided to use coming of that comet, and artificially created opportunity for the promised Prince to be conceived by Blackfyres. She staged assault of Lady Jeyne by Simon Toyne, and arranged things in a way, that Jeyne was saved by Barristan Selmy. Both Jeyne and Simon willingly took part in this set up. Though probably Simon didn't thought that he will be killed in the process. Barristan saved Jeyne, and they had sex, that's when fAegon was conceived.

Simon Toyne most likely was relative of Myles Toyne, captain-general of Golden Company. House Swann are (and always were) supporters of Blackfyres. Barristan Selmy, in his childhood served as squire to Lord Manfred Swann. 

I think that Barristan Selmy is son of Quaithe (who is actually Shiera Seastar), and his father is one of this three - Bloodraven, Bittersteel, or Aenys Blackfyre. And Jeyne Swann probably also had a bit of Targaryen/Blackfyre blood. Her ancestor Lady Johanna Swann was Black Swann that ruled over Lys, and member of the Triarchy, that fought against Targaryens. I think that Jeyne Swann, Balon Swann, and other Swanns, are descendants of Johanna Swann, and not of her uncle who were Lord of Stonehelm, and the head of House Swann.

Here's where really crazy stuff begins:

Johanna was ruler of Lys, in all but name. And one of the most influential families in Lys was House Rogare. So I think that Johanna was wife or mistress of Lysandro the Magnificent, and gave birth to three of his children, including Larra Rogare. During the Dance of the Dragons, in 129 AC, Viserys II was caught by the Triarchy, and given to Sharako Lohar, admiral commander from Lys. Sharako was admirer of Johanna Swann. In 130 he was assassinated by a rival over the affections of the Black Swann. Maybe that rival was Johanna's husband Lysandro. Some time later Viserys ended up in Lys under the stewardship of Rogare family. So could be that Lysandro defeated Sharako, and took his possessions, and among them Viserys.

In 134, when Viserys was 12, he got married with Larra Rogare. If my assumptions are correct, then Aegon IV was descendant of Johanna Swann. Thus Daemon I Blackfyre was Johanna's great grandson.

In 139 Larra returned to Lys, where she died in 145 of unknown causes. When she died she was only 30 years old. Though maybe she didn't died. Maybe she went to Asshai to learn magic, and years later returned to 7K, under name Serenei of Lys, and became last mistress of her son Aegon IV. Thus Shiera Seastar is a product of incest, between mother and son. To Aegon IV she is his daughter, and half-sister thru their mother's side.

Even more farfetched stuff:

Also could be that when Larra returned to Lys, she was pregnant, and secretly gave birth to fourth child of Viserys II. This child years later went to 7K, and married into Swanns family. That's why Swanns were supporting Blackfyres during their First Rebellion, and why Quaithe/Shiera Seastar made her son Barristan Selmy to squire for Manfred Swann, and years later sent Lady Jeyne Swann to seduce Barristan, to give birth to his son fAegon. All that to gain a strong dragonblood for Blackfyres, and to make a Blackfyre and not a Targaryen offspring, to become the Prince that was promised, that will become a hero of Second Long Night, and after it will rule over the world.

As I said - a very crazy tinfoil theory.

Short summary of family tree in my theory:

Johanna Swann + Lysandro Rogare = Larra, Lysaro, Moredo.

Larra Rogare + Viserys II Targaryen = Aegon IV, Naerys, Aemon, Secret child.

Aegon IV + his cousin Daena = Daemon I Blackfyre.

Aegon IV + his sister Naerys = Daeron II, Daenerys Targaryen.

Aegon IV + Serenei of Lys/Larra Rogare = Shiera Seastar/Quaithe.

Secret child of Larra and Viserys (born in 139 or 140) + Lord or Lady of Stonehelm = House Swann (among descendants was Manfred Swann (probably grandson of Larra and Viserys), to whom squired Barristan Selmy; and Lady Jeyne Swann/Septa Lemore, mother of fAegon).

Daenerys Targaryen + Maron Martell = House Martell.

Daeron II + Mariah Martell (sister of Maron Martell) = Aegon V.

Shiera Seastar/Quaithe + Bloodraven or Bittersteel or Aenys Blackfyre = Barristan Selmy.

Barristan Selmy (born in 236 or 237) + Jeyne Swann/Septa Lemore = fAegon (born in 282).

Based on timeframe looks like Manfred Swann was from the same generation as Aegon V. Thus Aegon IV and Larra Rogare/Serenei of Lys, were Manfred's great uncle and aunt, and Aegon V was his first cousin. Lady Jeyne probably was Manfred's daughter. Then she is first cousin twice removed to Shiera Seastar/Quaithe, and second cousin once removed to Barristan Selmy, and third cousin of her own son fAegon. And Aegon IV and Larra Rogare/Serenei of Lys were Jayne's great-great uncle and aunt.

Conclusion - ASOIAF is full of incest.

And I'm very bored, and can't wait for next book. :( I want MORE. If not Winds of Winter, then at least The She-wolves of Winterfell. I so hope that in 2018 we will have at least something from GRRM.

 

Why would a Pentoshi magister seek to replace Robert with Viserys in the early days of Robert’s reign? 

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

1. He is one of lies that Dany will slay - mummers dragon.

Illyrio and Varys are mummers, and fAegon is their dragon.

you give a good point against your opinion; Mummer's dragon means a Illyrio's and Varys' dragon, they are mummers, but not the dragon, otherwise he would habe been a mummer dragon or a dragon mummer.

and even then it could refer to his cotume chest and the possible lie about him being a blackfyre to get the golden company.

 

not saying he is in fact a targaryen, im totally uncertain, but your arguement doesn't really work

 

Edited by Euron Lannister

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12 hours ago, Shadow of Asshai said:

The more I think about Aegon, the more I am convinced he is not the real deal.

I know some will claim Jon Connington would know if he was not Aegon, but how would he know it? He was exiled after the Battle of Bells, Aegon was what? A newborn baby, maybe a few moon turns old? It would be pretty easy to deceive Jon Connington and once you convinced him Faegon is Aegon, he would be willing to help his Prince's son claim the Iron Throne.

I also think Faegon is Illyrio's son with Serra. That crossed my mind when Tyrion was in Pentos with Illyrio and he was given young boy's clothing. It couldn't be Viserys' clothes, because Viserys had moved to Illyrio's manse recently, it was not even a year if I am not mistaken. Viserys would be an adult, he would be wearing grown man's clothing. Those clothes can only be "Aegon's".

Illyrio reveals that Serra was a whore from a pillow house in Lys, Lys is really close to where the Golden Company established themselves, really close to the Disputed Lands. I don't know about you, but I think she is a Blackfyre from the female line or a bastard from that house. I just can't buy the story that Aegon is Aegon, there's something off about all that.

This is an interesting subject and never gets old to me. Im still looking into it. Right now im looking into Varys. Ive noticed some interesting things about him. Working backwards.

1. He tells a dying Kevan Lannister that he saved Aegon and raised him to be a proper king.

2. His voice changes even going deep sometimes while in disguise, like when visiting Eddard in the dungeons.

3. He tell a condemned man Eddard that Rhaenys was killed, to which Eddard notes how sad Varys seems. Varys leaves out mentioning Aegon being murdered. A clue to the later reveal? Its interesting.

4. Varys warns Aerys not to open the gates to Tywin despite Pycelle's advice. Trying to protect the Targaryens.

5. Varys possibly warns Aerys of Rhaegar's Harrenhal plot. Trying to avoid war. 

6. Rhaegar and Elia had their first child, a girl named Rhaenys,[8] in 280 AC. and Aegon, the child supposedly saved by Varys in either 281/282ac,

7. Rhaegar and Elia married the following year in 280 AC, a lavish ceremony was held at the Great Sept of Baelor.

8. After this in early 279 AC, Rhaegar was formally betrothed to the Dornish princess, Elia Martell, the younger sister of Doran MartellPrince of Dorne. 

9. Varys was brought to Aerys's court at some point after the death of Lord Steffon Baratheon in 278 AC.[20] 

8. A bald Varys (Looking like Aegon V) choses Illyrio as his protector and partner, to Illyrio's suprise. (As Aegon V had Dunken the Tall.)

So, if Aegon is a Blackfyre, then why did Varys come to Westeros before Aegon was born. Why does he pop up right before Rhaegar's unlikely marriage to Elia Martell? Did he arrange their marriage? 

Is Varys even really castrated? as his voice is able to go deep.

Is Varys a secret Targaryen and that's why he is dressed like Aegon V? and seeming to try to protect Aerys II and Rhaegar's son Aegon.

Who is Varys?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150244-part-5-varys/

I go a little more into who he could be in this thread (child of Jenny of Old Stone and Prince Duncan the Small). 

 

Though there is the well known Blackfyre conspiracy, i probably dont even need to bring up it's counter points about suspicious Illyrio's fondness for Aegon after having raised the kid. Not a surprise even if Illyrio wasn't his father. 

Also, how are they connected to the Blackfyres? what female is it that connects them? Illyrio's ex wife? Maybe she was sister to Varys and another child of Jenny and Duncan.  

As a Blackfyre, who would Serra tie back to? Maelys? Who ate his brother? Probably would have ate Serra too haha Kind of a weak tie to House Blackfyre really. 

On the other hand

Prince Duncan and Jenny of Old Stones. Who fall in love in 239ac and die at Summerhall together in 259Ac. This means that they were together for 20 years and very likely had children.

 

Just an alternative take maybe not brought up before by any one.

 

Maybe the fire that his genital were thrown into were the fires of Summerhall. Varys would be 40 around our current story if he was born at summerhall as Rhaegar was.

Edit- A note on the Mummer's Dragon. 

Mummer's Dragon- Not Mummers Dragon. This is possessive. Meaning the Mummer possesses the Dragon. Not, the Fake Dragon. Dany interprets wrong, we as the readers on the other hand are given the printed word. Mummer's.

The Mummer, is Varys. Aegon is his Dragon.

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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It really doesn't matter if he's the real deal or not. Look at who sits the Iron Throne at present. Or the king before him. If Aegon wins the throne by force, then people who declare his lineage true regardless of reality just as they did with Joffrey and Tommen. If he loses, he's just another failed pretender and what does it matter?

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

I'm absolutely sure that Young Griff is not son of Rhaegar.

Two reasons:

1. He is one of lies that Dany will slay - mummers dragon.

Illyrio and Varys are mummers, and fAegon is their dragon.

Mummer's Dragon- Not Mummers Dragon. This is possessive. Meaning the Mummer possesses the Dragon. Not, the Fake Dragon. Dany interprets wrong, we as the readers on the other hand are given the printed word. Mummer's.

The Mummer, is Varys. Aegon is his Dragon.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

It really doesn't matter if he's the real deal or not. Look at who sits the Iron Throne at present. Or the king before him. If Aegon wins the throne by force, then people who declare his lineage true regardless of reality just as they did with Joffrey and Tommen. If he loses, he's just another failed pretender and what does it matter?

Because now that Varys knows Dany has dragons, if they can Wed  Dany to Aegon. Then House Targaryen has dragons again and is restored. Even if Aegon is Faegon, it restores the houses and ends the rebellion. It matters who he is.

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4 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Because now that Varys knows Dany has dragons, if they can Wed  Dany to Aegon. Then House Targaryen has dragons again and is restored. Even if Aegon is Faegon, it restores the houses and ends the rebellion. It matters who he is.

There's no possible way that Dany's going to accept his claim overriding hers. She's going to assume he's the mummer's dragon regardless of if he's real or not. So again, we're back at if he wins he's golden, if he doesn't, it doesn't matter. I'd be completely fine with his story arc playing itself out without us ever finding out for sure.

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Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys V

"Perhaps," she said reluctantly. "Yet the things I saw . . ."
"A dead man in the prow of a ship, a blue rose, a banquet of blood . . . what does any of it mean, Khaleesi? A mummer's dragon, you said. What is a mummer'sdragon, pray?"
"A cloth dragon on poles," Dany explained. "Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight."

 

 
 
See what i mean. The mummer possesses the dragon. Whether the dragon was a cloth poll or not is irregardless. The Mummer possesses the Dragon and nothing in this statement implies the dragon it self to be fake or real. A cloth dragon, a real dragon, or the son of a dragon. The mummer possesses it. The mummer is Varys. The Dragon  could very well be the real Aegon. 
 
Though black or red, a dragon is a dragon. So i will give you that :)
Edited by AlaskanSandman

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10 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

There's no possible way that Dany's going to accept his claim overriding hers. She's going to assume he's the mummer's dragon regardless of if he's real or not. So again, we're back at if he wins he's golden, if he doesn't, it doesn't matter. I'd be completely fine with his story arc playing itself out without us ever finding out for sure.

Ha! Oh i agree, especially thanks to Tyrions meddling. 

Quote

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

She shouldn't have trusted Tyrion. 

And how do you know the Mummer's Dragon she warns of was Aegon, and not Ben Plumm who has a drop of dragon in him and already betrayed her? Making her prediction totally correct with out err.

 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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5 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

 

 
 
See what i mean. The mummer possesses the dragon. Whether the dragon was a cloth poll or not is irregardless. The Mummer possesses the Dragon and nothing in this statement implies the dragon it self to be fake or real. A cloth dragon, a real dragon, or the son of a dragon. The mummer possesses it. The mummer is Varys. The Dragon is could very well be the real Aegon. 
 
Though black or red, a dragon is a dragon. So i will give you that :)

There are several chapters to her headspinning over trying to figure out what Qaithe's prophecies/warnings/whatevers mean. For whatever reason Dany's accepting them as fact even though she doesn't really know what they mean. The most obvious translation to mummer's dragon is "fake dragon" which is what Dany seems to be leaning towards in that snippet you quoted.

I will say if he isn't real, he probably is a Blackfyre. That's a lose plot end that needs resolving and Aegon bringing it forth would neatly do that. Regardless, it's up to him to win or not. That will determine his legitimacy more than anything else.

Edited by Lord Lannister

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3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Ha! Oh i agree, especially thanks to Tyrions meddling. 

She shouldn't have trusted Tyrion. 

And how do you know the Mummer's Dragon she warns of was Aegon, and not Ben Plumm who has a drop of dragon in him and already betrayed her? 

 

How do I know? I don't. As I hinted at in my prior post, Qaithe's ramblings are too vague to really be of any use. No one but Martin really knows what her agenda is beyond as a bouncing board for Dany's inner doubts. I will say that Plumm doesn't fit the context of all the other people in that warning as he was already there when they were mentioned to "come." Though Aegon never did come so, assuming there's a pattern at all he doesn't fit either. Again to previous point, her ramblings are too vague to really draw anything conclusive from.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

There are several chapters to her headspinning over trying to figure out what Qaithe's prophecies/warnings/whatevers mean. For whatever reason Dany's accepting them as fact even though she doesn't really know what they mean. The most obvious translation to mummer's dragon is "fake dragon" which is what Dany seems to be leaning towards in that snippet you quoted.

I will say if he isn't real, he probably is a Blackfyre. That's a lose plot end that needs resolving and Aegon bringing it forth would neatly do that. Regardless, it's up to him to win or not. That will determine his legitimacy more than anything else.

Hmmm, well that would be a grammatical misunderstanding of the word then. If the dragon was fake it would be the mummers dragon, implying the dragon itself was the mummer, and not something possessed by the Mummer as Mummer's Dragon would actually imply by grammatical rules. Again, Dany hears the word, so it's understandable as to why she would misinterpret it. We as the reader on the other hand, can see the written word for what it is. There their and they're all sound the same but mean something different. 

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2 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

How do I know? I don't. As I hinted at in my prior post, Qaithe's ramblings are too vague to really be of any use. No one but Martin really knows what her agenda is beyond as a bouncing board for Dany's inner doubts. I will say that Plumm doesn't fit the context of all the other people in that warning as he was already there when they were mentioned to "come." Though Aegon never did come so, assuming there's a pattern at all he doesn't fit either. Again to previous point, her ramblings are too vague to really draw anything conclusive from.

Sorry that should have actually been written, how do we know. Apologies. 

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys II? 

Im not sure Ben Plumm had arrived to Merreen yet by that point. Pretty sure he arrives later than that, and was currently on his way to her, as was Tyrion. Aegon on the other hand, was never headed to Mereen. He was headed to Volantis. No farther. So Aegon actually doesnt work as well as Ben Plumm does

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8 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

your assumption that because the author is a "Male Feminist" he is giving dany all sorts of stuff with no repercussions.  You made it clear it bothered you, otherwise, you would not have brought it up. Men aren't "male feminists."  They are just feminists. Besides. Dany is suffering all sorts of repercussions. there is war, rebellion, disease, food shortages and a naval blockade. 

I think he might insert his own ideology to the books. I know some authors who lately have begun to do it, like Rick Riordan for example. And no, Dany suffers almost none repercussions. She is alive and well and according to Winds of Winter sample chapters she is already going to win this war. And I don't get what problem do you have with feminism. You understand that you don't need to be feminist to support gender equality? Most people do not indentify as feminists anyways:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/feminism-poll_n_3094917.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/

 

Anyway I really think it is funny how you accuse me of invading this forum, since I am on it longer than you and I still have no idea why you brought up reddit to this discussion.

Anyways, if you want to accuse me of something do it at least do it on private. This is not the place for it.

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3 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

I think he might insert his own ideology to the books. I know some authors who lately have begun to do it, like Rick Riordan for example. And no, Dany suffers almost none repercussions. She is alive and well and according to Winds of Winter sample chapters she is already going to win this war.

That has less to do with "ideologies" and "agendas" than with the simple fact that main characters are, well, main characters. Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Bran, Arya, Sansa will all make it into the final book. Furthermore, Dany must reach Westeros and make some sort of impact there, and not because GRRM is "male feminist" (ye gods!), but because her 30+ chapters (and counting) would be perfectly pointless otherwise.

And as for her "almost none repercussions", then why does the Slaver's Bay ADWD plot read like "the sequence of things that bite Dany on the ass one after another"?

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