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We have no real idea of how big an organization the Faceless Men is. I don't think it is huge, with tentacles everywhere, nor do I think it has much presence in Westeros. Having someone in a position of power who can help them could be quite useful. And her training seems more aimed at being an undercover agent than being an assassin. What talent she has is really nothing special. Her martial training is limited; I think her sword skills are basic at best. She is fearless, resourceful, and can be ruthless, all of which is useful, though hardly rare. However, she lacks the sort of sociopathic personality that would likely be necessary to be successful as an assassin for hire. She cares too much and asks too many questions.

It doesn't have variety all all. I can only see one outcome for each choice. Here's the list, if anyone is interested: Welcome to the ultimate Game of Thrones simulator. The longer the summer the longer the winter. This summer has lasted for about ten years, and winter is coming... Pick a house you will serve. Stark House Stark of Winterfell is a Great House of Westeros. Bran the builder is one of the first men, it was he who founded House Stark. Lord Eddard Stark is the house head. Male: You are a cousin of the Starks and serve as a squire for Ser Donnel Locke. You are following him on foot as the stark forces head towards the Green Fork. You are immediately slain in the battle and your master is captured. Female: You are a cousin of the Starks and serve as a nurse for Ser Donnel Locke. You are following him on foot as the stark forces head towards the Green Fork. You are immediately slain in the battle and your master is captured. Lannister House Lannister of Casterly Rock is one of the Great houses of Westeros. A common saying but not their actual motto is "A Lannister always pays his debts." Lord Tywin Lannister is house head. Male: You are killed by a dragon. Female: You are killed by a dragon. Bolton House Bolton of the Dreadfort is a noble house from the north. They have sworn allegiance to House Stark. Lord Roose Bolton is house head. Male: You are slain by the night's watch. Female: You are slain by the night's watch. Arryn House Arryn of the Eyrie is one of the Great Houses of Westeros. According to legend, the house was founded by Ser Artys Arryn, the Winged Knight. Lord Jon Arryn is house head. Male: You fall from a tall height and perish. Female: You fall from a tall height and perish. Greyjoy House Greyjoy of Pyke is one of the Great Houses of Westeros. The traditional ironborn way of life, is centered on piracy and raiding. King Balon Greyjoy is house head. Male: You drown at sea. Female: You drown at sea. (How absurd, I'm ironborn and I drown?!) Targaryen House Targaryen is a former Great House of Westeros. After Roberts Rebellion the few remaining Targaryens fled into exile. King Viserys III Targaryen is the house head. Male: Your sister kills you. Female: Your brother kills you. Tyrell House Tyrell of Highgarden is one of the Great Houses of Westeros. The Reach is the most fertile and populous region of Westeros, allowing House Tyrell to gain immense wealth Male: You are poisoned. Female: You are poisoned. The most annoying part is this message, which appears each time before we choose our gender: Now, are you male or female? (Gender affects the story, try playing as both and see what changes.) Literally nothing about the story changes no matter what we choose. The only "changes" are: if we're serving House Stark and are a male, then we're a squire, and if we're a female, then we're a nurse; if we're serving House Targaryen and are a male, then our sister kills us, and if we're a female, then our brother does. Overall, not a good generator.

It is! And this is bereft of it. I honestly don’t know where I fall on a number of issues discussed here, but your blatant biases certainly help the other side. …Cowardly censoriouness? WTF? Are you trying to be the next William Safire? Who, btw, was a dick that just used fun coins of term to make a career. Anyway, how am I trying to censor anything? Like, seriously, this defies basic logic and rather clearly is derived from some emotional based animus. But, to your credit, positively Nixonian. So, in other words, you don’t even know what I was referring to. K. Lemme know when you catch up. It’s very cute you think this. It assumes you have a monopoly on science. And a bewildering understanding of what self-censorship means. My friend, you are not on the left. In any way, shape, or form. Which is absolutely fine! I’d also like to clarify I don’t think you are in any way associated with the far right - that’s why I emphasized the difference. Further, I don’t think anyone here - and especially not you - is transphobic. But..you aren’t on any version of the left in any industrialized democracy I’m familiar with. Unless you think left means center.

Only 6 starters left in the playoffs over the age of 30.

Wrong orders though.

Nothing that I’ve seen of young Griff suggests to me a particularly capable ruler. And, I think that his capture of Kings Landing will be accompanied by the executions of Myrcella, Tommen, Margaery, and a bloodbath of anyone associated with the ancien regime. This may well be popular with his supporters, but will create opposition from the relatives of the victims.

So what if it looks like a hit. If anybody gets blamed, it would be the Lannisters, which would suit Baelish just fine. He's been pitting the two families against one another for some time. And I still fall to see how being locked in a wagon helps. The Wall is at the end of the world. Nobody would be able to hear Ned if he did say anything. And he doesn't know about Lysa's letter being arranged by Baelish, or who gave the initial tip to Stannis.

That's true but Arya's only been there for a couple of months/just under a year(?), and there is a theory she was being trained to gather intel rather than as an assassin.

What stored food? The Vale's? She wants to be in charge of the entire continent.

I had understood your argument to be that industrialisation meant that a large slave workforce was no longer required. However, slavery had vanished from the domestic economies of Western Europe, long before industrialisation, and long before their involvement in the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

To be fair, they mostly have developed a skill set based on arrogance and narcissism, which can be good for getting people to take orders from you.

What cowardly censoriousness to hold that position that simply correcting a very basic issue of biology is "obstinacy" and "insistent attitude". How about encouraging people on the side we support to know their science and to argue from truth rather than falsehood? Last year's Title IX draft proposal on athletics looked fine to me, acknowledging that sex-based discrimination may be necessary for competitive fairness or safety in sports, as determined by the appropriate federations and associations. I know less about this year's update to the role of Title IX in activities, but a cursory look at them makes them seem rather broader and I'd have to read comments for and against to see if it's all really just the right being assholes as they usually are, or if there are points where the regulations can be better improved. I'm no scientist at all, which is why I'm even more mystified by your posting at 3AM on a Monday arguing for self-censorship on science. If people start to turn to the right on some culture war issue because people on the left keep misstating facts or outright lying about them, whose fault is that? "The right made us do it!" isn't going to fly. We on the left should be willing to be truthful when discussing the interface between policy and science, even about facts that may be in some fashion inconvenient when we know our opponent will seize on it as a wedge. We should be talking about civil rights for all people and be opposed to gender-based discrimination outside of narrow contexts, and then go about fighting over those contexts, rather than attempting to falsify biology for the sake of putting forward a counter-maximalist position just because the opponent has a maximal one.

No no. I was considering the Myrish lens Lysa sent to Master Luwin during the beginning of A Game of Thrones, imagine how that would be. Hmm, I wonder what does happen if nobody guessed the object after 20 questions.

The irony here is that the Cass review was pushing back on the lack of scientific rigour in gender medicine. So for someone to try to criticise the Cass review for doing that, whilst simultaneously promoting pseudo science ideas like sex as a spectrum is really a bad look. Scientific truth isn’t a weapon.

If you have worked in public service and seen how utterly dreadful those are that making decisions, that's absolutely the right people to be standing for office. I'd make a law that anyone that went to public school or has a double barreled surname was automatically barred.

No asoiaf is all about plans going wrong. Just as you are planning so are other people and other non related events arr usualy in motion altering things! Doran wants revenage BUT as we see esp reinforced vy his love of the children he wants it clean and surgical...he wants no massive war if he can avoid Problem is the more complex you make a plan the more that can go wrong! He keeps waiting for everything to be exactly right and things keep changing while he waits thus will fail badly PLUS his original.targets are dead now so what remains is just petty anger being carried out by much more flawed tools than the red viper was

No, you don’t bear any responsibility for the “science” you are espousing. That’s well and clear. My point, which I think is rather manifest, is that this insistent attitude is precisely what the far right is looking for. Because then they can use it even in opposing rulemaking for Title IX. Which sucks. And I think most everyone reading this would agree it sucks. But, please, go on, denigrate me for being a political scientist. What type of scientist are you again?

They dont need any great house members they can kill or become one at will.,nor do any of their schemes require such naked power when they already are a seemingly international level shadow organisation...no her name is meaningless. Talent like arya probably doesnt come along often for them, they are probably use to training up uneducated bravosi orphans, ex slaves or utterly lost adults. Shes educated , has martial training ,has killed , already was assuming new identities to escape , clearly brave/fearless and has tasted enough bitterness in her short life to be open to their ideology!! Being sorta magic himself may also have detected her unique warg bloodline powers too.

FTFY

It would be far too suspicious for Ned to die en-route to the wall if he were killed by some random person that just happened to want to join. That'd look like a hit. The faceless men are better than that. As for why Baelish would care....Baelish's entire thing is to cause as much chaos as possible....without any of it blowing back on him. Ned knew, 100%, that Baelish was responsible, because Baelish used him to kick the hornets nest, regarding Cercie's children, and then betrayed him afterwards.

@StarkTullies interesting stuff here. I tend to agree with much of it, although I didn't see the last four seasons, only read about them. A few quibbles and comments. Jon: I am one of those who think he's still alive, albeit seriously injured and comatose, like Bran was. I don't think he will have a chance to meet with Jeyne. Theon told her she needs to continue being Arya, so I think Martin is going to let that story line run for awhile. Anyway, Jeyne's story is more connected to Arya and Sansa than it is to Jon. Even if he dies and is resurrected, I don't see him leaving the NW through a loophole. It seems very out of character. In any event, as Lord Commander and Ned's son, he is in a good position to be the de facto leader of the North, with a figurehead monarch (probably another Stark). Sansa: I pretty much agree with your take on Sansa. I think she takes down Baelish, but I'm unsure of what the trigger will be. I expect Baelish's mistreatment of Jeyne Poole will play a role somehow. The marks on her back need to pay off somehow. Her marriage isn't getting annulled with a snap of the fingers. Martin has her married, sans sex, for a reason. It's probably to make any remarriage very difficult, albeit still possible. Arya: I think the Faceless Men will let her go, but with a price. I think they will require her to provide assistance for them in Westeros if they need it. As scion of a great family, she is in a good position for that. I'm skeptical they ever intended for her to be an assassin. She's not really suited for it (too much of a conscience, for one thing). I doubt she will kill many people on her list. It's getting awfully short. Gregor and Cersei will be killed by others, Dunsen hasn't been seen lately, and Meryn is a nobody. That leaves Ilyn Payne, who has gotten a character build up and is in the Riverlands, a logical destination for Arya. It could be a necessary wakeup call. She's gotten by on surprise and luck and that won't last forever. I can see Arya getting interested in sex and maybe targeting Gendry, but I see Gendry turning her down flat. A young noble girl? Forget it. If she browbeats anyone into bed with her, I see it being Podrick. He's eminently browbeatable. That's all for now.

Then go out, o great political scientist, and find the fabled third gamete that proves that there is something other than two sexes. I bear no responsibility for what other people do with science, whether they fuck it up to shore up "sex is a spectrum" or they fuck it up to say "there are only two genders".

Really sad that you can’t understand it’s your obstinate position that is obviously “ideologically - motivated” and subsequently being co-opted by plainly bad actors.

Who has said that we must "abide" by that for policy purposes? I was dispelling misinformation about "changing [your] biological sex", which we can't at this time do, and "biological sex is a spectrum" nonsense that is obvious ideologically-motivated drivel that badly explains science. There are many genders and they all deserve their civil rights. Politics is politics, parties in the US will always roll up their sleeves for anything that can be turned into culture war. It'd be nice if they weren't constantly given fodder for the culture war mill, though.

Do have to say it’s incredibly amusing that this thread started as a reaction to the Cass report. Wherein we’re all told we have to believe that’s “science” and CANNOT question an old scientist’s statistical analysis. But when it comes to biological sex, we all must abide by the binary of gametes and gonads - and that is absolute. It’s fucking absurd argumentation, at best. The reason I mention this again is because it does - as has been suggested - have real life repercussions. The Biden administration spent years promulgating a new rule to Title IX that would protect trans students/faculty/staff at universities and colleges throughout the country from discrimination. To be clear, the rule has nothing to do with sports. It went through the rigorous notice and comment procedure like all rulemaking. But how have the far right governors weaponized it? By emphasizing the “basic” differences in sex. I’ll let my own dear governor explain: This type of absolute horseshit politicized exploitation of the rule has traveled to about half a dozen states now, for the time being. Heckofa job!