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Stubby

Small Questions v 10022

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Ned's fostering may have been part of Rickard's "southern ambition" and Robert... well he had no parents, someone had to teach him how to rule.

Those are my guesses as well... and probably are both pretty accurate.

Most of the examples of fostering are to get children away from bad parents, to foster with a larger house or to satisfy a political need/obligation. None of those really apply for Ned and Robert as far as I can tell, so I was somewhat curious to see if I had missed something.

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Those are my guesses as well... and probably are both pretty accurate.

Most of the examples of fostering are to get children away from bad parents, to foster with a larger house or to satisfy a political need/obligation. None of those really apply for Ned and Robert as far as I can tell, so I was somewhat curious to see if I had missed something.

It somewhat depends on when Robert started fostering in the Vale. If he was there before his parents died (which seems more likely to me) then we are less sure of why Robert was fostered there.

Also, we know so little about Steffon and Cassana.

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Little houses to big in most other cases that come to mind. That, or on account of trying to strengthen a weak child... especially in "current" times where fostering is synonymous with "stealing my baby"... though much of that impression I have may just be on account of Lysa (and Cersei to an extent) who was as over-protective as they come.

Robert and Eddard strike me as somewhat unusual. I definitely get the point of fostering, but don't see other examples of similar nature. Are there any?

LF being fostered at Riverrun as a favor to LF's father from Hoster Tully, was simply done so that LF would get a chance to step up a social level. When you associate with higher borns and makek sure they need you, you are more likely to rise high in the social levels of Westeros.

Children are not only fostered to strengthen a weak child, though it could be done (young Robert being fostered by Stannis or Tywin). The "stealing my baby" part is totally Lysa, who was traumatised by her 5 miscarriages. Robert was her only surviving child, and she did not want to lose him. She wanted him close, to treat him as a little child for as long as she could. She still breastfeeds him when he is 6 years old. That should give a picture about Lysa's mental state concerning her son well enough. Lysa, in any case, is not the situation you should base your opinion on when fostering is concerned.

Doran Martell was a squire at Salt Shore, Jaime Lannister a squire at Crakehall. In both cases, the boys were raised somewhere else for a part of their lives (Jaime from age 11 until his being knighted at 15, Doran at least at the age of 9).

Oberyn Martell was fostered at Sandstone. No quarrels between the Martells and the Gargalens (Salt Shore) or Qorgyles (Sandstone) are known. It stands to reason that these fosterings were done to keep political friendships.

Quentyn Martell is another story. He is fostered by Lord Yronwood, to show House Yronwood that the Martells trust them. This is a great risk, if you think about it. The Yronwoods are the second most powerful house in Dorne, and have fought against the Martells often (also during three of the 5 Blackfyre Rebellions).

Brandon Stark was fostered at Barrowtown. No quarrels between the Dustins and the Starks are known either.

It seems that fostering can be done for several reasons. Either to ensure political peace (like Quentyn Martell), or to make fast friends (Doran, Oberyn, Brandon, Jaime). It strengthens the position of both the house who presents the child, and the house that fosters the child. It shows trust, and creates friendships. And at times when necessary, it can be done to prevent fights.

Ned being fostered by Jon Arryn could indeed be a part of Rickards Southern Ambitions. Robert was most likely fostered around the same time, and seeing as how this starts at a reasonably young age, Robert's parents were most likely still alive when he first left. Rickards Ambitions and the deaths of both of Roberts parents can explain why Ned and Robert were in the Eyrie until such a late age. Rickard wouldn't want to loose grip over Jon Arryn, and Robert wouldn't want to leave the place he considered a home more than he did his own seat (he saw Jon Arryn as his father, and Ned as his brother; seeing as how both his parents had died, his relationship with Stannis wasn't all that well, and Renly was just a babe, I can see how there might not have been much for Robert at Storm's End).

Who could Aegon's Hand be? Maybe his son Duncan the Small? Do you think this is relevant?

It would most certainly be relevant, since the Hand would have played a big part during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. His name is unknown though.

Jon Arryn was planning on fostering Sweetrobin to Stannis or Tywin (depending on who you believe).

And Tywin alludes to having Tommen sent to the Rock to foster with Jaime, as Tywin wants Jaime to renounce being in KG.

Robert wanted Sweetrobin fostered at CR, Jon Arryn wanted Sweetrobin fostered at Dragonstone. Robert's decision seems to have been made after Jon's death.

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It somewhat depends on when Robert started fostering in the Vale. If he was there before his parents died (which seems more likely to me) then we are less sure of why Robert was fostered there.

Also, we know so little about Steffon and Cassana.

I agree with the following comment by @Rhaenys_Baratheon, that fostering at the vale probably was part of Lord Rickard Stark's Southron Ambitions. We know (from an SSM somewhere, I am looking for the citation...) that Ned was fostered from age 8-16 and Robert at the same time. Bothh are born in 263, so the time of the fostering is 271-279.

Some SSM says they visited Jon Arryn at the Eyrie often after that, which explains Ned coming from the Eyrie to Harrenhal in 281.

Ned being fostered by Jon Arryn could indeed be a part of Rickards Southern Ambitions. Robert was most likely fostered around the same time, and seeing as how this starts at a reasonably young age, Robert's parents were most likely still alive when he first left. Rickards Ambitions and the deaths of both of Roberts parents can explain why Ned and Robert were in the Eyrie until such a late age. Rickard wouldn't want to loose grip over Jon Arryn, and Robert wouldn't want to leave the place he considered a home more than he did his own seat (he saw Jon Arryn as his father, and Ned as his brother; seeing as how both his parents had died, his relationship with Stannis wasn't all that well, and Renly was just a babe, I can see how there might not have been much for Robert at Storm's End).

Lord Steffon Baratheon and Lady Cassana Estermont drown in 278, so roughly seven years after the start and one year before the boys are done fostering.

edit: tpyo

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I agree with the following comment by @Rhaenys_Baratheon, that fostering at the vale probably was part of Lord Rickard Stark's Southron Ambitions. We know (from an SSM somewhere, I am looking for the citation...) that Ned was fostered from age 8-16 and Robert at the same time. Bothh are born in 263, so the time of the fostering is 271-279.

Some SSM says they visited Jon Arryn at the Eyrie often after that, which explains Ned coming from the Eyrie to Harrenhal in 281.

Lord Steffon Baratheon and Lady Cassana Estermont drown in 278, so roughly seven years after the start and one year before the boys are done fostering.

edit: tpyo

Thanks! Those ages I didn't know yet :)

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Some SSM says they visited Jon Arryn at the Eyrie often after that, which explains Ned coming from the Eyrie to Harrenhal in 281.

I dunno, this from Game of Thrones makes it sound like Ned and Robert were still Jon Arryn's wards when the rebellion broke out:

In his youth, Ned had fostered at the Eyrie, and the childless Lord Arryn had become a second father to him and his fellow ward, Robert Baratheon. When the Mad King Aerys Targaryen had demanded their heads, the Lord of the Eyrie had raised his moon-and-falcon banners in revolt rather than give up those he had pledged to protect.

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I dunno, this from Game of Thrones makes it sound like Ned and Robert were still Jon Arryn's wards when the rebellion broke out:

I agree. But the Ned was at least 18 when the rebellion began.

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I dunno, this from Game of Thrones makes it sound like Ned and Robert were still Jon Arryn's wards when the rebellion broke out:

I know, that's why I wrote the stuff above. But it is better with the source mentioned, so here it is:

He was fostered, not exiled. Yes, certainly he returned home. Less frequently the first few years, when he would have been performing the duties of a page and then a squire, more often and for longer periods later. During his "squire" years (he wasn't a squire in the strict sense, since he wasn't training for knighthood, but he was acting as one), he would also have accompanied Jon Arryn on many travels out of the Vale. And once he reached the age of sixteen he was a man grown, free to come to go as he liked... which would have included both time at home and in the Vale, since Jon Arryn had become a second father. The same was true of Robert, who divided his time between Storm's End and the Vale after reaching manhood, not to mention dropping in on tourneys and whatever choice fights he could find.

SSM 1077

I agree. But the Ned was at least 18 when the rebellion began.

He was 18 when he came to the Tourney at Harrenhal (AGoT p630). The Robellion took off a year later, so he would have been 19 by then.

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I know, that's why I wrote the stuff above. But it is better with the source mentioned, so here it is:

SSM 1077

He was 18 when he came to the Tourney at Harrenhal (AGoT p630). The Robellion took off a year later, so he would have been 19 by then.

Be careful when using Wiki for exact dates. A lot of those events can be off a year since they're estimates based on estimates. Depends on the month. I have a boy who was born in 2005 but he's 8 now in 2014. And I have a girl who was born in 2012 but she won't be two for another year.

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Be careful when using Wiki for exact dates. A lot of those events can be off a year since they're estimates based on estimates. Depends on the month. I have a boy who was born in 2005 but he's 8 now in 2014. And I have a girl who was born in 2012 but she won't be two for another year.

Thanks for the warning, I know I must be careful. I use the wiki when there's no better source to be found. The wiki information was the shipwreck and the birth year of the boys, 1-2 years difference do not matter so very much there.

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Yeah I guess the quote I posted is ambiguous enough. Arryn had sworn to protect them years ago and it's not like that vow is technically absolved when the boys outgrew being fostered.


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Yeah I guess the quote I posted is ambiguous enough. Arryn had sworn to protect them years ago and it's not like that vow is technically absolved when the boys outgrew being fostered.

I've never much doubted Jon, Ned and Robert were at the Eyrie when Aerys sent for them.

Which is puzzling. Why send to Jon Arryn when Ned and Robert were elsewhere?

But the answer may have been this: they were there at the moment, for whatever reason and of course, Varys knew.

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I always thought that perhaps the fostering would continued until Robert and Ned were to wed, in their cases specifically, because of Rickards Southern Ambitions, and because Robert didn't really have anything at Storm's End.



But to get back at the SSM that Jon Weirgaryen quoted:





How did Ned manage to become such a paragon Northener and a close friend of Lyanna's if he spent his time in the Vale from age 8 to 18? Or did he return home at some point(when?) and was just visiting Jon Arryn prior to and after the tourney at Harrenhal?


He was fostered, not exiled. Yes, certainly he returned home. Less frequently the first few years, when he would have been performing the duties of a page and then a squire, more often and for longer periods later. During his "squire" years (he wasn't a squire in the strict sense, since he wasn't training for knighthood, but he was acting as one), he would also have accompanied Jon Arryn on many travels out of the Vale. And once he reached the age of sixteen he was a man grown, free to come to go as he liked... which would have included both time at home and in the Vale, since Jon Arryn had become a second father. The same was true of Robert, who divided his time between Storm's End and the Vale after reaching manhood, not to mention dropping in on tourneys and whatever choice fights he could find.




2 questions:



1) So during Ned's fostering, he fullfilled the tasks of a squire, without getting the title. So my question about this: does this mean there is no difference between sending your son away for fostering, and sending your son away to become a squire?



2) So Ned and Robert were fostered from the age of 8. We know Doran Martell was serving as a squire at the age of 9. Could it be that it is considered normal to foster your child from the age of 8 or 9? And would that also indicate that Quentyn Martell, who was send away to be fostered at a very young age, was send away to Yronwood earlier, say 6-7?


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In answer to question 2, I think I remember a passage somewhere that said 8 was the typical age at which a boy was sent.out as a page, graduating to a squire at around 11-13 and then training to be a knight. Something niggles in my mind that I read that, perhaps in a Jamie POV?

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Does anyone know how many people Arya has actually killed? The 3 wishes JH fulfilled is debatable so u can include or not as long as I know. I just want an accurate count. Thanx

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In answer to question 2, I think I remember a passage somewhere that said 8 was the typical age at which a boy was sent.out as a page, graduating to a squire at around 11-13 and then training to be a knight. Something niggles in my mind that I read that, perhaps in a Jamie POV?

Probably. Didnt Jaime squire for Crakehall?

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Does anyone know how many people Arya has actually killed? The 3 wishes JH fulfilled is debatable so u can include or not as long as I know. I just want an accurate count. Thanx

Not counting JH's three, four. Stable boy, Mummer's squire, Dareon, old man in Braavos

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Not counting JH's three, four. Stable boy, Mummer's squire, Dareon, old man in Braavos

Thank you so very much. Naming them is an unexpected added bonus for me. You are awesome Lady G.

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Are there any threads that have "Dawn" the Sword of the morning and "Lightbringer" wielded by AA being the same, theories?

Yes, google "asoiaf.westeros.org dawn lightbringer"

Thank you so very much. Naming them is an unexpected added bonus for me. You are awesome Lady G.

:D

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