Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 And the Russian parliament, of course, approved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Russia isn't stupid enough to attack member-states of the European Union who are also members of NATO. That's not going to happen. As was the case with Georgia, the Ukraine/Crimea is a situation they can 'spin' and create casus belli out of to suit their own purposes. I know, I was just being silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 And the Russian parliament, of course, approved it. This journalist claims it was unanimous. What's Russian upper-house like? Just a rubber-stamp for Putin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yeah, pretty much. The man is a dictator after all. Can we officially call him that now and stop pretending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 It seems like the Crimea is a given to become a Russian client state if not a full part of the Russian Federation. The Referendum for seperation from Ukraine has been moved forward to 30 March, Russia is occupying the place until then to show how much more stable it is than the rest of Ukraine, and the majority Russian population of the peninsula will do the rest come 30 March. So the Crimea is already a guaranteed loss for Ukraine. There is pretty much nothing the new so-called government in Kiev can do to stop that. The more interesting question is about the fate of Eastern Ukraine itself, where a lot of Russian speaking citizens are also apparently pushing for Russian intervention. What happens there will be fascinating to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 This journalist claims it was unanimous. What's Russian upper-house like? Just a rubber-stamp for Putin?It's a strange version of the early US Senate (i.e. before the Seventeenth Amendment made elections of Senators direct). The way it works is that there are two Senators from each Russian province who are elected by the legislature of each province (one of them must be nominated by the provincial governor). Thus, in theory, if the various Russian provinces were like US States, you would have something like the old US Senate. In practice, the governors are all appointed directly by the Russian President and the legislatures are from the same party so, yes, it's basically a rubber-stamp. EDIT: On the other hand, they do get to argue for highly unlikely foreign policy initiatives similarly to what US Senators like McCain do. For example, one of the vice-speakers just said that Russia should recall its ambassador to the US because Obama has insulted the Russian people with his speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disturber of Peace Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 What does China say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 They're probably too busy salivating over Taiwan to say anything. edit: Russian senate suggest recalling US ambassador. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I usually enjoy the witty titles that board members are wont to give their threads, but when the subject discussed is the death and suffering of thousands of people, maybe it's a bit tasteless? Anyway, this is an extremely tense situation. Depending on how much of Ukraine's military is in the new regime's hands, they could up quite a fight against Russia, but in the long run they don't stand a chance. They just better hope that Crimea is the only part of the country that Putin wants, and not the entire eastern half. And what can the west do? Putin got half of Europe by their balls with the gas pipelines, so even our diplomatic measures and embargoes are probably gonna be weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 This is going to be bad. If we attempt to stop Russia from reincorporating Crimea (or God forbid Ukraine itself) it will go poorly. If we don't it sets a precident I thought ended with the Start of the Second World War of large States forcing smaller States to cede territory under the threat of force. Damn, I wonder if Ukraine is regretting giving up all their nukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 This is going to be bad. If we attempt to stop Russia from reincorporating Crimea (or God forbid Ukraine itself) it will go poorly. If we don't it sets a precident I thought ended with the Start of the Second World War of large States forcing smaller States to cede territory under the threat of force.Damn, I wonder if Ukraine is regretting giving up all their nukes. It never fully went away. No one stepped in when China annexed Tibet, when Turkey annexed (for all intents and purposes) the northern bit of Cyprus, or when Indonesia annexed East Timor; and those are just the ones I know of. At least a few of the various African conflicts were attempts to conquer territory as well, but those were usually so caught up in civil wars and (at the start) wars of independence. Wars of conquest are much less common than they once were, but WWII wasn't the end of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zared Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 The situation at the moment is fascinating. I find it hard to believe that this is happening, it does seems as something that would happen 70 years ago. I think the Ukraine will end up splitting up with the help of Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Oh then. The Wall Street Journalist's bureau reporter in Istanbul tweeted less than an hour (I dunno how to link to those, sorry) that the Turkish foreign minister announced from Kiev today that "When it comes to the rights of our kin in Crimea, [Turkey] is in a state of mobilization" I don't know what exactly that means (except that 'kin' refers to the Crimean Tatars), and whether 'mobilization' means what we usually think it means, but it sure doesn't sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 This is insane. It's crazy how peaceful protests escalated all the way to a major world crisis. It just goes to show that history will always repeat itself. While I am against military intervention, I feel that if Putin isn't stopped what's to stop him from going after the rest of the Baltic states? Remember WWII people, appeasement doesn't work!Also the Ukrainian government keeps saying they won't be provoked to respond with force, but can they really just sit back and let Russia annex the Crimea? If they do then why shouldn't Putin go for East Ukraine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disturber of Peace Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 As i have said a couple days ago,Giving East Ukraine to Putin gives us Peace for our time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 According to Wikipedia, the armed forces of Ukraine number 159,000 men, with another million in reserve. How much of that is currently under the control of the new regime? Is there a risk that a large portion of the army would desert to the Russians if they should invade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disturber of Peace Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 On the other hand, if Ukraine responds with force, Putin goes to war to protect the Russians in there.This is a Putin-Putin situation.Ukraine should wait, but the Ukrainians will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 This is insane. It's crazy how peaceful protests escalated all the way to a major world crisis. It just goes to show that history will always repeat itself. While I am against military intervention, I feel that if Putin isn't stopped what's to stop him from going after the rest of the Baltic states? Remember WWII people, appeasement doesn't work! Its not quite the same though. Ukraine is one of the only countries in Europe (along with Sweden, Finland, Ireland, Belarus, Switzerland, Austria, Moldova, and some of the Balkan states) that isn't part of NATO. There's not really any appeasement that can be done, even if anyone wanted to. If Putin attacks a Baltic state, he's going to war with pretty much the entire Western world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Right Front has asked their followers to arm themselves and be ready and Klitschko has called on the Ukraine to mobilize. And apparently there have been dozens of wounded in the eastern provinces as demonstrators clash. Things may well get completely out of control if something is not done soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disturber of Peace Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Klitscko is just perfect for this.The ex-boxer who stands up for the Ukranian people when they call for someone taking rash action and giving Putin just what he wanted.People can be such predictable NPCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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