Galactus Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 What do you mean? A tank is a tank, SPArt is SPArt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 A tank is a tank, SPArt is SPArt.Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 In this case I agree. We're not going to go to war with Russia, we're not going to put sanctions on Russia, we're not going to do anything to Russia except maybe fuck with a handful of peoples' visas. And even if Obama wanted to do something, Congress wouldn't let him; not to Russia. Harsh words need to be saved for when they can be backed up. Why? The alternative is standing by and letting things that shouldn't happen happen unchallenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference? Artillery is long-range support, Tanks are front line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TanksButNoTanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 According to CNN Russian tanks and helicopters have now been seen in Crimea. Quite possibly part of the Russian troop contingent at the Sevastopol naval base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazydog7 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Oh no one has posted this yet so I get to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/28/night-wolves-ukraine-putin-biker-brothers_n_4873315.html I really couldn't make this up if I tried. Reading the comments from some of these macho biker assholes is cheaper then going to the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Why? The alternative is standing by and letting things that shouldn't happen happen unchallenged. Because we aren't challenging Russia and we aren't going to, it just empty words. And that's a problem because there are times when those words aren't empty, and they should be saved for those times; else they stop being credible to say. We can denounce Russia's actions, say they are in violation of international law, etc., but to start talking about costs or consequences devalues our credibility in other cases when we really would do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 The idea of a war with Russia is terrifying, but at the same time I wish someone would kick their shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ouroboros,Pure power politics like this is always scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ouroboros,Pure power politics like this is always scary.The scary thing is that Russia is not only always getting away with it, but are continually escalating their actions in such events. People say you shouldn't be alarmist, but I am reminded of Nazi Germany's actions prior to WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Oh no one has posted this yet so I get to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/28/night-wolves-ukraine-putin-biker-brothers_n_4873315.html I really couldn't make this up if I tried. Reading the comments from some of these macho biker assholes is cheaper then going to the movies. "Real MEN do ride Harleys. Our President? A bicycle. Probley never even has riden a motorcycle???? Kinda sissified?How soon we forget. The Viet Nam war. When it seemed to be lost, THE Hells Angels Motorcycle clubs world wide offered their services (free) to go end it once and for all.Our government declined. They were afraid the >Angels would be to violent? Take no prisoners" - Ronnie BakerYes of course what the US military couldn't stamp out will easily be dealt with by a bunch of bikers, with Harley's of course being the ultimate jungle terrain vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Because we aren't challenging Russia and we aren't going to, it just empty words. And that's a problem because there are times when those words aren't empty, and they should be saved for those times; else they stop being credible to say. We can denounce Russia's actions, say they are in violation of international law, etc., but to start talking about costs or consequences devalues our credibility in other cases when we really would do something. There is a fair bit that can be done. The EU and USA could combine to slam a trade embargo on Russia (UN sanctions, of course, will never happen due to Russia's veto). Germany could shut down its factories in western Russia that are employing tens of thousands of Russian workers. Russia could screw with European gas supplies and withold use of its spacecraft for transport to the ISS in return, but it would get economically hurt in the process. Where the line in the sand would be is hard to judge. Russia annexing the Crimea wouldn't quite be it. Russia invading the Ukraine as a whole might be. EU member countries like Poland and Romania like having a buffer between themselves and Russia and would be seriously unnerved by Russian forces being on their doorstep again. The Baltic States would certainly get quite nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 And the BBC has just confirmed Putin has sought approval from parliament to deploy troops in Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disturber of Peace Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 How come nobody here is giving me the most interesting info - what does China say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 And the BBC has just confirmed Putin has sought approval from parliament to deploy troops in Ukraine. This is worrying. If he'd said, "...in Crimea," alone, that would be expected. "Ukraine," is rather more worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 This is worrying. If he'd said, "...in Crimea," alone, that would be expected. "Ukraine," is rather more worrying. Here's what the BBC has so far: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sToNED_CAT Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 There is a fair bit that can be done. The EU and USA could combine to slam a trade embargo on Russia (UN sanctions, of course, will never happen due to Russia's veto). Germany could shut down its factories in western Russia that are employing tens of thousands of Russian workers. Russia could screw with European gas supplies and withold use of its spacecraft for transport to the ISS in return, but it would get economically hurt in the process. Russia isn't really dependent too much on trade. Oil and gas are obvious exceptions, but EU needs those badly, so they won't do anything. Russia can harm EU more than EU Russia. And US-Russian trade is not important at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 This is worrying. If he'd said, "...in Crimea," alone, that would be expected. "Ukraine," is rather more worrying. Why take the consolation prize when you can take the entire east? Next stop, the Baltics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Russia isn't stupid enough to attack member-states of the European Union who are also members of NATO. That's not going to happen. As was the case with Georgia, the Ukraine/Crimea is a situation they can 'spin' and create casus belli out of to suit their own purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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