Where is Sansa's story arc headed?

[Hodor the Articulate]

Septa Mordane will ride up in a giant lemoncake carriage to take her to the ball King's Landing. She'll arrive just in time to reveal herself to her handsome Prince King Joffrey Tommen fAegon, and stop his marriage to that horrible witch Maergery. The deformed imp, Tyrion, realises that's he's far too ugly for our lovely maiden, so he gives the Prince and his new bride his blessings, and resigns to the bell tower. Coincidentally, that's where whores go, he finds. The Prince and Lady Sansa wed and they live happily ever after. ♥ ♥ ♥

Seriously though, why does everyone think she'll become a master manipulator? This is the girl who "forgets" that it was Petyr who convinced Lysa to poison Jon, just because he saved her life. I'm pretty sure she'll be the downfall of LF in some way, but she's not suddenly going to outsmart people who have been playing the game for years, just because she's finally learnt not to trust anybody.

[Value Dollaeris]

Seriously though, why does everyone think she'll become a master manipulator? This is the girl who "forgets" that it was Petyr who convinced Lysa to poison Jon, just because he saved her life . . .

1. Exactly because of the pattern of 'forgetting' -- she is swimming in a river of denial but the scales are falling from her eyes. She is starting to see -- she has always seen now she needs to admit that she knows what she does. Each time LF asked her if she understood what was going on -- she did. She picked up on main points and the nuances.

2. She has has been sitting front row with the master game players -- she watched Tyrion, Cersei and the Tyrells play.* She is being instructed by the best game player of them all and she getting a taste for it -- "She felt absurdly proud for puzzling it all out . . ."

3. The best game players are: LF, Varys, Tywin. Tywin's talents were distributed amongst his children -- Cersei understood the importance of keeping up appearances, Tyrion got his father's head for strategy. Tyrion didn't care enough about appearances -- he should have paid bards to sing his praises, instead he killed the only one to take an interest; Cersei has a lust for power and an understanding of how to exert feminine power but has no larger aims than gaining even more power. If Justine transforms into Juliette, she will understand the importance of good appearance and sound strategy. (and it seems that some hate to hear it but Sansa - Tyrion could be good power couple)

4. She's 13 which is good age at to make a profound life change.

5. If she takes the Vale she will have enough food to make it through winter (as Jon notes) and a good sized army.

6. She deserves credit for surviving Kings Landing -- if her eyes had opened a bit earlier she might be living a relatively happy life in Highgarden.

* Granted she learned nothing from Varys.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Seriously though, why does everyone think she'll become a master manipulator?

You are pulling a strawman. Nobody has ever said she will be a master manipulator. What we are discussing that Sansa will become a player in the upcoming two books.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Sansa doesnt need to be a Master Magnificent Bastard. All she needs is to know just how to use the information shes gathered and witnessed and how and where to apply it. Combined with her natural talent at Politeness Judo, this could be very dangerous indeed.

My speculation is that we'll meet Harry early in WoW and he'll turn out to be a major douche. Sansa then will pretend to go along with the plot to poison Sweetrobin and will even fool us readers, thanks to some misdirects. But instead she'll poison Harry with the Strangler of the hairnet and pin it on Littlefinger. Before that, though, she'll subtly remove all of LF's assests, like distracting Lothor Brune with Mya Stone, using Myranda Royce to get the support of the garrison of the Gates of the Moon and the Royces, pretending to seduce Ser Byron, etc.

Littlefinger will be either captured or he'll escape. Sansa then will be ruling the Vale in all but name, because the Blackfish or Yohn Royce will be Robin's regent, but the kid only listens to Sansa. Then she will arrange an alliance with Varys through the Mad Mouse and then she'll marry Aegon.

Oh i like this, aside from the Aegon bit. (cuz lol no) I mean, if she goes the Non-LF-Murder route, i could see this happening.

I need Aegon to join up with some characters I actually care about, otherwise I'll never root for the damn kid :P

Aegon will marry Arianne. Unless you hate her or something. :P

[Fire Eater]

Also a living corpse (does Jon qualify as a lich if Mel revives him)?

Except GRRM hinted Jon isn't dead, and Mel resurrecting like Beric and Cat would be trite.

You are pulling a strawman. Nobody has ever said she will be a master manipulator. What we are discussing that Sansa will become a player in the upcoming two books.

She finally stops being moved around as a piece by other players, and takes control of her life, making her own decisions and living with them. I think if Sansa is brought back to KL by Cersei's men for trial, they will notice a different girl from the one who left KL.

Robert is Sansa's Winged Knight, and I think this time it will be the fair maiden saving the knight.

[greywindsrage]

Now for one I don't think Littlefinger's scheme will come to fruition. because 1) the plan is explained in detail. If there one obvious pattern in these books is that plans that are laid out so easily are always flushed down the toilet. 2) GRRM ended her last chapter in a cliffhanger for a good reason. If Sansa will go along with Littlefinger then he would have shown her reaction on his plan, but he didn't and on top of it gave us a subtle hint that Sansa will not go along with him. I think that Sansa will defy Littlefinger because she has both a selfless and selfish reason to protect Sweetrobin. Plus we have to keep the "controversial" chapter in mind. Now my theory is that Sansa will kill Littlefinger with a poisoned lemon cake in the controversial chapter. It wouldn't be that controversial because most of the fans are rooting Sansa to take down Littlefinger - even the ones who don't like Sansa that much, but still be slightly controversial since Sansa killing someone won't sit well with some people. The wolves will be coming again and I have feeling that Sansa will be the wolf who will blow the minds of a lot of people.

I support this argument.

[Newstar]

Seriously though, why does everyone think she'll become a master manipulator?

I don't think Sansa will become a master manipulator or even necessarily a "player" in the Littlefinger/Varys/Olenna/Tyrion sense, but she doesn't need to do so in order to take down Littlefinger. She's Sweetrobin's beloved mother figure; Littlefinger's been entrusting her with some potentially damaging secrets she could use against him; and he's at the very least in lust with her. That's all she needs, really; it's just a matter of when she decides to make use of it, and she doesn't need to become a Littlefinger-level manipulative genius to do so.

I think if Sansa is brought back to KL by Cersei's men for trial, they will notice a different girl from the one who left KL.

I hate the idea of Sansa getting dragged back to KL, but I do like the idea of Sansa getting a KL do-over and sticking it to Cersei.

[Hodor the Articulate]

I don't think Sansa will become a master manipulator or even necessarily a "player" in the Littlefinger/Varys/Olenna/Tyrion sense, but she doesn't need to do so in order to take down Littlefinger. She's Sweetrobin's beloved mother figure; Littlefinger's been entrusting her with some potentially damaging secrets she could use against him; and he's at the very least in lust with her. That's all she needs, really; it's just a matter of when she decides to make use of it, and she doesn't need to become a Littlefinger-level manipulative genius to do so.

I agree. She's LF's weakness. I think he'll slip up somewhere, and give Sansa the opportunity to take him down.

You are pulling a strawman. Nobody has ever said she will be a master manipulator. What we are discussing that Sansa will become a player in the upcoming two books.

People keep saying she'll be LF 2.0. Even Tyrion's not LF 2.0.

*snip*

But that's just my point. She's spent that last 5 books recognising that "life isn't a song", but still isn't completely aware of everything. And this person is supposed to know what to do with all the information she's come across, just because LF is telling her about his plans (she doesn't pick up on them herself)? I just don't think being wary is the same as being cunning, and shrewdness can't be learned by "osmosis". LF will still be hers to destroy, but I don't think she'll do it by "playing the game".

[chrisdaw]

Seriously though, why does everyone think she'll become a master manipulator?

Many reason but most importantly it is easily where the most dramatic potential is, and this is epic fantasy of the kind where bad asses jump dragons in mid air to thrust fabled swords in other bad asses eye sockets.

Bran is turning master wizard, Arya master assassin, you really think Sansa is destined for mediocrity when Arya is face changing and assassinating kings and Bran is flooding continents? She is master manipulator.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

Many reason but most importantly it is easily where the most dramatic potential is, and this is epic fantasy of the kind where bad asses jump dragons in mid air to thrust fabled swords in other bad asses eye sockets.

Bran is turning master wizard, Arya master assassin, you really think Sansa is destined for mediocrity when Arya is face changing and assassinating kings and Bran is flooding continents? She is master manipulator.

haha, pretty much

in ASOIAf your either a bamf...

or you get your head chopped off, shadowbaby assassinated, ice zombie death, burned on a stake, Ceaser'd or bathed in dragonfire

[Dicer]

Many reason but most importantly it is easily where the most dramatic potential is, and this is epic fantasy of the kind where bad asses jump dragons in mid air to thrust fabled swords in other bad asses eye sockets.

Bran is turning master wizard, Arya master assassin, you really think Sansa is destined for mediocrity when Arya is face changing and assassinating kings and Bran is flooding continents? She is master manipulator.

Exactly. It's wishful thinking. There is nothing in the text to support the idea that Sansa will be any kind of player. People want her to do things because her siblings are doing things.

[Darksnider05]

haha, pretty much

in ASOIAf your either a bamf or you get your head chopped off

Well when Sansa steps up and does something she can be a bamf. Until than she's on the list for the head chop by your own words.

[jet199]

I think that the Vale, LF and Sansa are going to get caught up in the dance of dragon's 2.0. I think people are focusing too much on Sansa staying in the Vale when LF probably means to expand his power and involve the whole of Westeros in his schemes. LF will be off travelling around, making alliances (probably with Aegon) while Sansa finds her feet politically in the Vale. However he won't want to leave her alone for too long so she will eventually get pulled into Dany v Aegon. I think both of them will survive to leave the Vale but Sansa will find herself supporting one side (probably Dany or the fight against the others in the north) while LF is trying to play both sides against each other and causing chaos. That will be when she decides he needs to go and his head ends up on the walls of Winterfell.

[The brown snake]

I hope she lives and has children... I would love to see her reunited with Sandor, but we don't even know if he is alive :(

[The Mother of The Others]

Bran is turning master wizard, Arya master assassin, you really think Sansa is destined for mediocrity when Arya is face changing and assassinating kings and Bran is flooding continents? She is master manipulator.

That's why I'm thinking it's queen for her, or queen-adjacent. That's what she chose as the thing she wanted to be great at, and the only reason she turned her back on it is because she had to, so this self-talk of I'd never go back there again is just what you say when you're down in the dumps. She'll get her second wind.

[chrisdaw]

Exactly. It's wishful thinking. There is nothing in the text to support the idea that Sansa will be any kind of player. People want her to do things because her siblings are doing things.

Wishful thinking is an interesting take on the expectation of a consistent narrative structure across the whole series.

[CersiGoesCrazy]

In general, she becomes like Olenna Tyrell, a capable and wily player when she has to be, but avoiding getting involved if she can possibly stay out.

She may, romantically, come around to seeing Tyrion as a better man than he seemed, better for her than almost everyone she has seen around her so far, and stay happily married to him as Lady of Casterly Rock, with Rickon preempting her claim on the North. But equally, Tyrion could die and set her free.

[CersiGoesCrazy]

100% agree!

[Faint]

The only manner I can see Sansa playing a significant role in the greater story is if she wraps Harry Arryn around her finger and has an outsized influence on his decisions, so that will be my guess about how things will go. One possibility in that vein is that she trades the support of the Vale's armies to Daenerys in exchange for restoration of the Starks in the North. Or, alternatively, whoever is in charge of the realm towards the end of the story needs those armies to confront the Others.