Starksmustwin Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 But I don't hate the show. It's very bad in my opinion, but why would I hate it? D&D didn't offend me. They harmed me in no way. I have no reason to hate them. I hate their constant whining about how difficult a task they undertook, but that's another matter (I hate that kind of whining in general, and I am surrounded by it in real life, by the way). I have nothing against them personally, nor against their show, nor against the people that like their show. (To be clear, it doesn't influence my opinion on the people that happen to love it. Who knows what kind of stuff I like that you, for example, would think pure rubbish.) I just happen to strongly dislike the show, is all. And, truth be told, I dislike a lot of TV or movies, because of the same reasons I dislike GoT for, but the source material is what sets GoT apart. Like, there is no other adaptation of this scale and nature, that I can follow so closely. That's some rewarding stuff for all kinds of analyzing. And this posting and these debates do help a lot in analyzing the process of adaptation, even if many posters disagree with my views (in fact, it only helps, cause I like my views to be challenged). Since I'm in the creative business myself, all this can't help but be helpful. But, once there is no source material to compare the TV show against, it will loose all the benefit for me, most probably. You hate whining? That's some hardcore irony right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerArthurHeath Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I expect Oberyn will be adding to his character in a non-sexual way with some key dialogues in the next 2 episodes though, and Jon Con will also add a lot on that front, assuming they don't give him a sex scene. THAT would be putting a LGTB caharcater's sexuality ahead of their characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Snow Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 But I don't hate the show. It's very bad in my opinion, but why would I hate it? D&D didn't offend me. They harmed me in no way. I have no reason to hate them. I hate their constant whining about how difficult a task they undertook, but that's another matter (I hate that kind of whining in general, and I am surrounded by it in real life, by the way). I have nothing against them personally, nor against their show, nor against the people that like their show. (To be clear, it doesn't influence my opinion on the people that happen to love it. Who knows what kind of stuff I like that you, for example, would think pure rubbish.) I just happen to strongly dislike the show, is all. And, truth be told, I dislike a lot of TV or movies, because of the same reasons I dislike GoT for, but the source material is what sets GoT apart. Like, there is no other adaptation of this scale and nature, that I can follow so closely. That's some rewarding stuff for all kinds of analyzing. And this posting and these debates do help a lot in analyzing the process of adaptation, even if many posters disagree with my views (in fact, it only helps, cause I like my views to be challenged). Since I'm in the creative business myself, all this can't be but be helpful. But, once there is no the source material to compare the TV show against, it will loose all the benefit for me, most probably. Well, that's an interesting outlook on things. One which I can not share. About TV Oberyn: I look at it this way. The first time when he was about to have an orgy he was interrupted by Lannisters so he couldn't commit himself to such primal enjoyments. So they showed him the second time after the primal enjoyments were already finished or closing, so he enjoyed himself then again Lannisters show up, this time with an enticing offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerArthurHeath Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I really really hope the Tyrion- Oberyn cell scene has Myrcella being crowned, the Elia-Oberyn/Jaime-Cersei arranged marriage, and is basically as close to verbatim as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daske Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Obviously whatever D+D do they will be damned and praised by different people. But it isn't fair to paint all purists with the same brush. Even those who complained about the lack of Xaro's sexuality have every right to be disgruntled at Oberyn's portrayal. Things aren't black and white here - wanting a character's sexuality to be mentioned does not mean you want another character to be made into a caricature by their sexuality. Yes, but surely wait until we have had more than three or four scenes with the character before panning the character as a caricature. They went for a big bang (oh!) introduction, now they will expand on his part to play in the story in the coming episodes. If he does spend the rest of them in bed then I will admit that's a bit rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miodrag Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 You hate whining? That's some hardcore irony right there. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Yes, but surely wait until we have had more than three or four scenes with the character before panning the character as a caricature. They went for a big bang (oh!) introduction, now they will expand on his part to play in the story in the coming episodes. If he does spend the rest of them in bed then I will admit that's a bit rubbish. If they tone things down a bit from now on it will go some way to repairing the damage, but it won't erase what's already happened. I hope we're done with Oberyn sex scenes, simply because I feel that there is no further purpose to them but I remain somewhat doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ground_control Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 They didn't go to Crasters on purpose..... bran heard a baby crying, he warged and stumbles into a trap. He went to Crasters to save Summer and Ghost. It's not like he went looking for Crasters. Yes, but they didn't seem to realize what the place was, and it took them a while to figure out that the Black brothers were bad guys. My point was that it looks like Sam didn't bother to mention it, which is (IMO) a plot hole or just bad writing. The scene would have been better if one of them had said, "These must be the deserters Sam warned us to avoid." That wouldn't stop them from trying to rescue the dire wolves or getting caught, but it would at least make it look like Sam had a three-digit IQ. Also, when Jon and Sam are telling Locke about Bran (sarcasm), and looking at the map, it only then dawns on him that Bran & Co. might stumble onto Craster's. Even though that's where Sam was running from when he met them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starksmustwin Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Care to elaborate? Go read through your own posts. Would you seriously not categorize what you're doing as whining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon has three heads Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Care to elaborate?That you're a moaner.No offense intended, but really...yes they could use some of their seconds more...efficiently. Yes the editor needs a good kick sometimes and yes the cheese melts over some scenes and they have missed some great moments and made others more tv/movie generic, but, its not as bad as you make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starksmustwin Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Yes, but they didn't seem to realize what the place was, and it took them a while to figure out that the Black brothers were bad guys. My point was that it looks like Sam didn't bother to mention it, which is (IMO) a plot hole or just bad writing. The scene would have been better if one of them had said, "These must be the deserters Sam warned us to avoid." That wouldn't stop them from trying to rescue the dire wolves or getting caught, but it would at least make it look like Sam had a three-digit IQ. Also, when Jon and Sam are telling Locke about Bran (sarcasm), and looking at the map, it only then dawns on him that Bran & Co. might stumble onto Craster's. Even though that's where Sam was running from when he met them. You're really reaching here. And I have a feeling that adding in an arbitrary line like "These must be the deserters Sam warned us to avoid." likely wouldn't have changed your displeasure of the scene at all. As is, them being there had a pretty good lead up with the baby crying and Summer being trapped. I think you're more upset with the very idea of him being there than you are due to it missing an arbitrary line about Sam warning them. ​The only part I really see as being a little non-nonsensical is the fact that they're keeping ghost alive. I do wish they'd have added a karl line like "The beast keeps unwanted cunts away!" or something similar, but leaving it unexplained didn't break the show or anything. Some times, you have to be able to suspend disbelief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miodrag Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Go read through your own posts. Would you seriously not categorize what you're doing as whining? It's not whining, it's criticizing. Hardly the same thing. And look, you're criticizing my criticism. Even worse, you're just mocking it. But you're not whining. Just like my criticism of the show isn't whining. The way you're saying, it looks like any criticism you don't agree with is whining. But it isn't. That you're a moaner.No offense intended, but really...yes they could use some of their seconds more...efficiently. Yes the editor needs a good kick sometimes and yes the cheese melts over some scenes and they have missed some great moments and made others more tv/movie generic, but, its not as bad as you make out. And I'm not moaning either. Really, how the hell can you confuse criticism with whining and moaning? I'm not whining my job is hard and life sucks and the world is terrible. That's what D&D are doing, about the job at least. I'm only criticizing a TV show. And, by the way, the show is not as good as you make it, but I'm not calling you names. No offense intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starksmustwin Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 It's not whining, it's criticizing. Hardly the same thing. And look, you're criticizing my criticism. Even worse, you're just mocking it. But you're not whining. Just like my criticism of the show isn't whining. The way you're saying, it looks like any criticism you don't agree with is whining. But it isn't. When you criticizes everything, it tends to come off as whining. Plus, if you can't show that you enjoy any aspects of the show, then your critiques come off as very superficial. You've already said that you think the show is bad. Which leads me to believe that you watch with the pure intention of picking each episode apart and telling people why it was so bad. I guess I just don't get the point. If I disliked something so completely, I'd do something else I actually like doing instead. Otherwise, I'm just wasting my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilisk312 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 i just sorta dread the future changes i can foresee, tho i hope i'm wrong... for example, i'm worried about the wolves (and even the dragons) due to the already-reported high cost of cgi and how d&d (and hbo) aren't crazy about that cost... i also worry that sam's and arya's arcs will be quite different in the show, unless they simply want to make time for other arcs (you know, have time for other arcs while sam is off becoming a maester and arya an assassin) i think dany's troubles in slaver's bay will be shortened, maybe even to the point that jorah's "treachery" is never mentioned... i do look forward to her actually riding the black dragon, that seems too important to cut just for financial reasons i'm also worried that stannis' journey to the wall then to winterfell won't receive the detail it deserves... i'm not crazy about locke being where he is, unless next week takes care of him... maybe they'll feed him to ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 i think dany's troubles in slaver's bay will be shortenedThat sounds like one of those good problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ground_control Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 You're really reaching here. And I have a feeling that adding in an arbitrary line like "These must be the deserters Sam warned us to avoid." likely wouldn't have changed your displeasure of the scene at all. As is, them being there had a pretty good lead up with the baby crying and Summer being trapped. I think you're more upset with the very idea of him being there than you are due to it missing an arbitrary line about Sam warning them. ​The only part I really see as being a little non-nonsensical is the fact that they're keeping ghost alive. I do wish they'd have added a karl line like "The beast keeps unwanted cunts away!" or something similar, but leaving it unexplained didn't break the show or anything. Some times, you have to be able to suspend disbelief. If you are going to call me a liar (or imply that I'm deluding myself) just because you can't handle the truth, there is really no need for us to continue talking. I have liked plenty of scenes that weren't in the books and hated plenty as well. This just happens to be one of the latter. It's because I hate bad writing, not because I hate change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starksmustwin Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 If you are going to call me a liar (or imply that I'm deluding myself) just because you can't handle the truth, there is really no need for us to continue talking. I have liked plenty of scenes that weren't in the books and hated plenty as well. This just happens to be one of the latter. It's because I hate bad writing, not because I hate change. The only part that was bad was ghost being there alive in a cage. Otherwise, the whole scenario had a perfectly believable lead up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miodrag Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 When you criticizes everything, it tends to come off as whining. Plus, if you can't show that you enjoy any aspects of the show, then your critiques come off as very superficial. Sorry, but this isn't logical at all. It's not my fault that the show is this bad, you know. Just like it isn't my fault that you can't stand a criticism of the show you love. And I don't get your reasoning about some balance between criticism and appreciation you suggest. What, my complaints would be more legitimate if once in a while I say that the scenery is breathtaking, or that Emilia Clarke is very beautiful? You've already said that you think the show is bad. Which leads me to believe that you watch with the pure intention of picking each episode apart and telling people why it was so bad. You completely misjudged my intentions. That's somewhat surprising, considering I did explain my intentions in one of my posts you seem to read. If I disliked something so completely, I'd do something else I actually like doing instead. Otherwise, I'm just wasting my time. But, I do like criticizing bad shows. I enjoy it greatly. Wasn't that obvious already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Herman Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Really enjoyed this episode, 1,2 and 3 were a bit meh to be honest, but with the Tyrion/Jaime, Jaime/Brienne, Sansa/Petyr wall scenes this was really enjoyable and had some great dialogue. Also wondering, is the last scene with the other/white walker and craster's child canon for the books, or did George have something else in mind for what was being done to the children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Mountains Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 It's not my fault that the show is this bad, you know. You post a line like this an expect anyone to take your posts seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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