(BEWARE SPOILERS) Book Lovers beware this episode was better than we expected

[teemo]

I disagree. I thought this was one of the most boring episodes this season and it's just getting worse. The changes are sad and it's even more sad that the books are being spoiled now.

[sj4iy]

How is it people don't know what's going to happen now?

The mutineers are going to be killed and Bran and co. are going to head North. Jon will get Ghost back. We will either have a cheesy Jon/Bran reunion or a cheesy Jon/Bran 'near miss' number two.

...and in the end the people of Westeros will defeat the Others.

It's not about the resolution, it's about the way it happens. And we don't know how any of that will happen in the show.

[protar]

Then you really don't read this board much. One guy was even calling the series "Game of Fanfic" because this new Bran/Jon Story line wasn't in the books. There's at least one person on this board that gets upset over every minute change. So, you're either literally lying about not seeing anyone like that or you literally don't read the comments on this board..

The stuff with Bran is a pretty wild deviation from the source material. It's hardly out of the question to be upset about it. Even if I look at adaptations like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings that take a fair degree of liberty with the source material, there's nothing like this. This would be like half an hour of the Chamber of Secrets film being spent on Neville's toad getting petrified just so Neville has something to do. Maybe it would be entertaining but so was the source material with less Neville, so why change stuff up?

Game of Thrones is like the uncanny valley of adaptations. It's not faithful enough to be satisfy my desire to see the books on screen and it's not distant enough from the source material to be a simple "inspired by" which I can enjoy on it's own merits. It's like D+D couldn't decide whether they wanted to do their own IP or adapt someone else's and the end result is a show which tosses book readers about and varies wildly in quality.

[teemo]

The stuff with Bran is a pretty wild deviation from the source material. It's hardly out of the question to be upset about it. Even if I look at adaptations like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings that take a fair degree of liberty with the source material, there's nothing like this. This would be like half an hour of the Chamber of Secrets film being spent on Neville's toad getting petrified just so Neville has something to do. Maybe it would be entertaining but so was the source material with less Neville, so why change stuff up?

Game of Thrones is like the uncanny valley of adaptations. It's not faithful enough to be satisfy my desire to see the books on screen and it's not distant enough from the source material to be a simple "inspired by" which I can enjoy on it's own merits. It's like D+D couldn't decide whether they wanted to do their own IP or adapt someone else's and the end result is a show which tosses book readers about and varies wildly in quality.

Hey there ;) It's Atia, lol. Gotta love the D&D fanfic!

[sj4iy]

The stuff with Bran is a pretty wild deviation from the source material. It's hardly out of the question to be upset about it. Even if I look at adaptations like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings that take a fair degree of liberty with the source material, there's nothing like this. This would be like half an hour of the Chamber of Secrets film being spent on Neville's toad getting petrified just so Neville has something to do. Maybe it would be entertaining but so was the source material with less Neville, so why change stuff up?

Game of Thrones is like the uncanny valley of adaptations. It's not faithful enough to be satisfy my desire to see the books on screen and it's not distant enough from the source material to be a simple "inspired by" which I can enjoy on it's own merits. It's like D+D couldn't decide whether they wanted to do their own IP or adapt someone else's and the end result is a show which tosses book readers about and varies wildly in quality.

...because Neville isn't a main character and Jon and Bran are? I suppose that would be the biggest reason to change it is that "Jon stays and fights on the Wall for days on end until Stannis comes in and saves the day" and "Bran lets a dead guy show him where to go" isn't nearly as suspenseful as what they've done here.

[roxWolfox]

I disagree. I thought this was one of the most boring episodes this season and it's just getting worse. The changes are sad and it's even more sad that the books are being spoiled now.

In this I cannot help but disagree. As it's been pointed out to me by my husband and many of his show watcher/book reader friends, the book started off with the Black Brothers finding evidence of White Walker activity. That is what they've been waiting for: more White Walker activity. My interest in the story was piqued by the introduction of the direwolf pups (one for each 'Stark' child). I've been disappointed in the lack of direwolf interaction in the HBO show, but the injection of White Walkers has been very satisfying.

[Blazfemur]

The inclusion of this whitewalker/other scene, put so many things into perspective. It was hinted that there was some purpose when we found out they take the boys. But seeing that scene, instills they have a hierarchy of sorts amongst their kind, it instills they're intelligible, theyre not mindless zombies (liek their wights are), it puts into perspective their powers, and the slipup on hbo go just makes the night's king's history that much more apparent delivers a sense of purpose.

[Fragile Bird]

...because Neville isn't a main character and Jon and Bran are? I suppose that would be the biggest reason to change it is that "Jon stays and fights on the Wall for days on end until Stannis comes in and saves the day" and "Bran lets a dead guy show him where to go" isn't nearly as suspenseful as what they've done here.

I'm not sure Bran is a main character right now, not until he meets up with good ol' three eyes and starts doing stuff.

[FalseKnight]

Not to mention the fact that it's fuggin' hard to prep a drinking skull that pristine within such a short space of time when there's a whole lot of eating, raping, child beating and wolf taunting to be doing. You've basically got to put the skinned skull into a barrel of mealworms for them to eat all the flesh in all the nooks and crannies of the skull, then to make it nice and pearly white you have to soak in just the right concentration of hydrogen peroxide. I thought it was pretty ridiculous but I just let it go.

I'm a bit worried that you know so much about this topic. Also, it's fantasy, so you can't expect 1:1 equivalency in terms of prepping a drinking skull. I doubt Karl considered the risks associated with his actions.

[dmo862000]

If I wanted a verbatim adaptation of the books I wouldn't bother watching. I have a spectacular imagination. I think book deviations are spectacularly interesting and are why I watch. Locke, the Others, a possible Bran and Jon Snow meetup etc etc are what make watching it FUN. I hate spoilers. If they completely adhered to the books it would completely be spoiling. Why bother watching if you want them to go word for word from the books? Whats the freaking point. If you want that then quit watching the dang show and quit complaining about deviations. Book purists make no sense to me. 'This is what I pictured and they deviated from it. Please do exactly what I personally envisioned. If you do otherwise I hate what you chose to do. But I'll keep watching.'

[sj4iy]

I'm not sure Bran is a main character right now, not until he meets up with good ol' three eyes and starts doing stuff.

Well, Jon wasn't that important either in the first couple of books. It's all about where they are in their journeys.

[Carey Snow]

Maybe if Jon does meet up with Bran and co, they'll even teach Jon how to use his powers of warging that so far he hasn't even touched. Just a thought.

Arya needs to start using her's as well.

[sj4iy]

If I wanted a verbatim adaptation of the books I wouldn't bother watching. I have a spectacular imagination. I think book deviations are spectacularly interesting and are why I watch. Locke, the Others, a possible Bran and Jon Snow meetup etc etc are what make watching it FUN. I hate spoilers. If they completely adhered to the books it would completely be spoiling. Why bother watching if you want them to go word for word from the books? Whats the freaking point. If you want that then quit watching the dang show and quit complaining about deviations. Book purists make no sense to me. 'This is what I pictured and they deviated from it. Please do exactly what I personally envisioned. If you do otherwise I hate what you chose to do. But I'll keep watching.'

I completely agree. And it's fun seeing why they make the changes they do. For example, I did wonder why Ygritte shot Jon with three arrows instead of just the one to the leg. It seemed like a pointless change.

...until we found out that Sam told Jon about Bran. If Jon had only been shot in the leg (as he was in the book), then an injured leg probably wouldn't have stopped him from deserting. But being too weak and injured to move at all? That would keep him from going. It was neat how it all clicks when you give it time to play out. I think most people just aren't giving the show the time to see where it leads.

[dmo862000]

I completely agree. And it's fun seeing why they make the changes they do. For example, I did wonder why Ygritte shot Jon with three arrows instead of just the one to the leg. It seemed like a pointless change.

...until we found out that Sam told Jon about Bran. If Jon had only been shot in the leg (as he was in the book), then an injured leg probably wouldn't have stopped him from deserting. But being too weak and injured to move at all? That would keep him from going. It was neat how it all clicks when you give it time to play out. I think most people just aren't giving the show the time to see where it leads.

Thank you. I love GRRM but I don't look at him as a God like some on here do. He actually CAN be improved. Sure not every deviation is great but neither is every GRRM right turn. AFFC and ADWD are surely imperfect and I find it hard to believe anyone thinks otherwise. The stories can be improved. Apparently thinking so is a freaking sin. Are people excited to see a D&D Meerenese knot? I know I'm not. Or a dragged out Bran storyline? No thank you.

[Mr Fixit]

...because Neville isn't a main character and Jon and Bran are? I suppose that would be the biggest reason to change it is that "Jon stays and fights on the Wall for days on end until Stannis comes in and saves the day" and "Bran lets a dead guy show him where to go" isn't nearly as suspenseful as what they've done here.

Exactly. One side effect of ASOS encompassing two seasons is that some characters simply don't have enough material. What should Jon do until Ep.9? Just stand around and sulk some more? And Bran? After having spent the entirety of S3 travelling, what, should he travel some more? Spend 20 episodes on a road trip with Hodor without anything happening?

The reaction of various groups of show-only watchers is very encouraging on this front: all of them pretty much agree that the Wall and Beyond the Wall storyline is getting very interesting this season.

[Blazfemur]

Thank you. I love GRRM but I don't look at him as a God like some on here do. He actually CAN be improved. Sure not every deviation is great but neither is every GRRM right turn. AFFC and ADWD are surely imperfect and I find it hard to believe anyone thinks otherwise. The stories can be improved. Apparently thinking so is a freaking sin. Are people excited to see a D&D Meerenese knot? I know I'm not. Or a dragged out Bran storyline? No thank you.

i just wish Bloodraven would turn on Bran already, it's already been too long for him

[protar]

Exactly. One side effect of ASOS encompassing two seasons is that some characters simply don't have enough material. What should Jon do until Ep.9? Just stand around and sulk some more? And Bran? After having spent the entirety of S3 travelling, what, should he travel some more? Spend 20 episodes on a road trip with Hodor without anything happening?

The reaction of various groups of show-only watchers is very encouraging on this front: all of them pretty much agree that the Wall and Beyond the Wall storyline is getting very interesting this season.

I agree that it's quite interesting to watch just from the perspective of the show, however ultimately it will still end up as rather pointless filler. Just like Ros or the Dragonknapping, once this little invention of D+D's comes to an end it will never be bought up again or have any impact on the rest of the plot. Why not have Bran attacked by Wights and rescued by Coldhands? Why not have the smaller battle at Castle Black with Ygritte's death in E4 or 5 rather than condensing it into E9, which is the whole reasons Jon has nothing to do.There's plenty that they could have done that would have been both interesting and true to the novels. If the option to please both parties is there, then why not take it?

[sj4iy]

I agree that it's quite interesting to watch just from the perspective of the show, however ultimately it will still end up as rather pointless filler. Just like Ros or the Dragonknapping, once this little invention of D+D's comes to an end it will never be bought up again or have any impact on the rest of the plot. Why not have Bran attacked by Wights and rescued by Coldhands? Why not have the smaller battle at Castle Black with Ygritte's death in E4 or 5 rather than condensing it into E9, which is the whole reasons Jon has nothing to do.There's plenty that they could have done that would have been both interesting and true to the novels. If the option to please both parties is there, then why not take it?

Why stick in a character like Coldhands who only appears briefly, doesn't do much that can't be done by other means, and may even possibly confuse the non-book readers? If his only significance is guiding Bran and killing some mutineers (which it seems to be), then there's no reason to even introduce him to the audience. You can create much more drama by even suggesting that a Stark reunion is possible. No, I don't think it will happen...but I'm just excited by the possibility. I don't even care what the ramifications would be down the road, I just want to see what they do with the story now.

[protar]

Why stick in a character like Coldhands who only appears briefly, doesn't do much that can't be done by other means, and may even possibly confuse the non-book readers? If his only significance is guiding Bran and killing some mutineers (which it seems to be), then there's no reason to even introduce him to the audience. You can create much more drama by even suggesting that a Stark reunion is possible. No, I don't think it will happen...but I'm just excited by the possibility. I don't even care what the ramifications would be down the road, I just want to see what they do with the story now.

Even if both routes are ultimately pointless (though I refuse to believe Martin inserted Coldhands for no reason, and think D+D just want to condense his role) then why not take the pointless route the also follows the books? Watching a potentially good zombie rescuing Bran would be fun to watch even if it's left as a mystery. Watching Bran captured at Craster's is also fun even if nothing ever really comes of it. Both routes work well enough when looking at the show as a standalone piece, but one keeps two groups happy. It should really be a no-brainer.

[King Optimus Prime]

To all the book fans that are pissing and moaning about the White Walker reveal understand this: The books can't rule the show, period, we are now in the fourth season of this show and this is the first time we've seen what is presumably the overall antagonist, the show waited long enough, if GRRM wants to take his sweet ass time with WoW and DoS and barely give us anything when it comes to again what is presumably going to be the main villains that's fine, but don't expect the show to do that, by the fourth season or the fifth book, we should at least have some idea of what the main villain LOOKS like, and a brief teaser of what he can do that shows us why we should take him seriously.