Goldfinger Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Sansa enjoying that kiss for at least 10 seconds.All great scenes in the Vale.Where's the Littlefinger T-shirts?gotta love this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 And yet that shot didn't make out of the editing room. The editor looked at it, D&D probably looked at it, the episode director might have looked at it, and they've decided against showing it. And they did it for a reason. No, that's a still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamLemonCakeBraavos Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 When someone brought up an alliance between Sansa and Robin, it got me thinking. So...would it be possible that her line in the trailer about, "Lord Baelish has told many lies," isn't directed towards the Lords Declarant, but towards Robin (in a different scene)? Because I can imagine her saying that to Robin and then adding on, "Don't trust him, trust me." You guys think that would be possible? Well...I mean, ANYTHING is possible, so I guess I should say, is it likely? Or is she really just talking to the LD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChromeWeasel Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 LOL I always get a kick out of this forum. I've read the books multiple times, and have been a faithful watcher of the show from the beginning, and I just don't get the incredible butthurt over this scene. It seems that every single episode there is some irrelevant bit that they change that all the fans just completely lose their shit over. "OMG HE DIDN'T SAY ONLY CAT!!" So what? Good lord. And one of you actually mentioned that this scene, this ONE SCENE, is the only thing that in your opinion makes the entire series worthwhile. I just don't get it. Here are the fundamentals of what is by all accounts a fairly standard GRRM murder scene: 1. Sansa stands in snow 2. Sansa builds Winterfell 3. Robin wrecks it 4. Littlefinger helps her rebuild it 5. They kiss 6. Lysa sees the kiss, goes apeshit 7. Littlefinger pushes her out the moon door, blames it on fop I've read these books so many times and this particular scene never struck me as any kind of lynchpin. I mean there are so many massive scenes that they altered or just didn't do at all, that to fixate on this one strikes me as almost pathological. Totally agree. I was just saying the same thing to my fiance about this. I've read the books several times. She's a viewer only. We both liked the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 If it was a police report, that list would have covered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Ages, she's between 15 and 16 on the show (more than two years have passed and she started the show after her 13th birthday), she's legal to do what she wants sexually in much of Western Europe at 15, and the rest of Europe and most of the US at 16. But I don't see how the modern context is relevant to the discussion. Sansa isn't the reader's daughter or sister or niece or whatever, she's a warg living in a fantasy world, complete with dragons, and an author who sets ages for sexuality very young, and doesn't shy away from large age gaps.In Westeros, her age isn't the problem with the kiss, it's that she's Littlefinger's captive. She's got no choice, he's murdered two people in cold blood right in front of her, threatened her, shown no respect for her as a person, and is responsible for the misery and death of her whole family, not to mention the price on her head that limits her options drastically. If she's not afraid, she's stupid. Take your pick. I don't think book Sansa is stupid. She's doing the smartest thing, biding her time, gaining his trust, surviving, and learning to navigate her world. Playing catch-up here, but thanks for this. Was more or less what I was going to say before RL called. She looked appropriately repulsed to me after it happened. Agreed. She kind of froze on the spot, but then pushed him away, and sounded pretty sincere when relaying that to Lysa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Sansa's body language in the still was different from Sansa's body language in what wound up airing, but after the Jaime/Cersei debacle, I have trouble attributing that to a deliberate choice on the part of the show. The stills usually match up with what airs in the show--or else the differences are so minor as to be unnoticeable--so the discrepancy sticks out. I don't really see that the kiss itself is greatly different from the books. Book Sansa yields very briefly to the kiss before shoving Littlefinger off, as well. It's the elimination of everything after the kiss--Sansa losing her shit, Littlefinger coming on to her and offering to warm her hands, Sansa worried about being able to fend Petyr off and being "saved" by Sweetrobin interrupting them, etc.--that changes the flavour of the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 No, that's a still. Yes, but if Sophie Turner performed one, or more, shots with that body language, then that performance should have been recorded. And it was not used. Sansa's body language in the still was different from Sansa's body language in what wound up airing, but after the Jaime/Cersei debacle, I have trouble attributing that to a deliberate choice on the part of the show. The stills usually match up with what airs in the show--or else the differences are so minor as to be unnoticeable--so the discrepancy sticks out. I don't really see that the kiss itself is greatly different from the books. Book Sansa yields very briefly to the kiss before shoving Littlefinger off, as well. It's the elimination of everything after the kiss--Sansa losing her shit, Littlefinger coming on to her and offering to warm her hands, Sansa worried about being able to fend Petyr off and being "saved" by Sweetrobin interrupting them, etc.--that changes the flavour of the scene. Well, the difference is that the Jaime/Cersei scene seems to have been a directing issue. In other words, it's possible that they didn't have any shot that would make it look consensual when they were cutting the episode. In this particular episode, it seemed they did have alternate shots that made it look non consensual. Now, performance might not be the only reason, or the reason at all, why they discarded it, but we need to remember that's a discarded shot, not the one who was actually used in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Well, the difference is that the Jaime/Cersei scene seems to have been a directing issue. In other words, it's possible that they didn't have any shot that would make it look consensual when they were cutting the episode. But they clearly didn't understand that it came across as non-consensual, is the point. So assuming that their use of this shot is meant to convey something different from the still is a rather shaky assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avernite Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 But they clearly didn't understand that it came across as non-consensual, is the point. So assuming that their use of this shot is meant to convey something different from the still is a rather shaky assumption. Well, to me the in-episode version got across more or less the right message. Surprise followed by rejection. Not an immediate violent denial, sure, but that seems a bit tricksy with Petyr 'I poison people for hitting you, imagine what I do to someone who annoys me' Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Yes and yes. I dunno. I should have seen this coming, as Sweetrobin's actor was not all that young even in Season 1, and that was filmed back in 2010, but eliminating the mother/son angle to Sansa and Sweetrobin's relationship really diminishes it. No shade on Sweetrobin's actor--he's fine except for his age--but they really should have recast with someone younger for Sweetrobin's return in Season 4.Intetesting. I actually see show Sweetrobin as perfectly fine. One of the better child actors as well, imo, but age-wise I don't have many gripes. I think it would work out fine... unless he ages like Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Maybe Sansa will witness SR having a seizure in episode 10, if he does not play a significant role in episode 8, revealing his illness to the audience and maybe leading to a conversation about his health and possible death. I don't see why Sansa could not have a motherly relationship with him. Lino looks too old? Well, everyone has been going on about how adult Sophie looks, so that should level out. More importantly, SR acts younger than his age, even in the books where he's 8, it's one of his defining characteristics. I'd love to see him ask Sansa if, since they presumably aren't going to be betrothed now, she could be his mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Well, show!SR sleeping with show!sansa would have a different tone than in the books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Well, show!SR sleeping with show!sansa would have a different tone than in the booksLOL He doesn't have to be sleeping in the same bed with her for her to be his "mom".I don't think we'll see him kissing her, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams and Prophecies Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Maybe Sansa will witness SR having a seizure in episode 10, if he does not play a significant role in episode 8, revealing his illness to the audience and maybe leading to a conversation about his health and possible death.I don't see why Sansa could not have a motherly relationship with him. Lino looks too old? Well, everyone has been going on about how adult Sophie looks, so that should level out. More importantly, SR acts younger than his age, even in the books where he's 8, it's one of his defining characteristics. I'd love to see him ask Sansa if, since they presumably aren't going to be betrothed now, she could be his mother. I really do think Sansa's final scene this season is: "Are you my mother now Alayne?""Yes, I suppose I am." It would perfectly fit with the whole children thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I really do think Sansa's final scene this season is: "Are you my mother now Alayne?" "Yes, I suppose I am." It would perfectly fit with the whole children thing. I like that! I was assuming a Harry the Heir reveal based on how fast they're going through her stuff, but I'd also accept her committing to her Alayne Stone role. Really hoping they mention her last name next episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I really do think Sansa's final scene this season is: "Are you my mother now Alayne?" "Yes, I suppose I am." It would perfectly fit with the whole children thing. I think something akin to that would be a good final scene, though since Robin knows who she is, I don't see that he would start calling her "Alayne" now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I really do think Sansa's final scene this season is: "Are you my mother now Alayne?""Yes, I suppose I am." It would perfectly fit with the whole children thing.Maybe, but he knows she's his cousin and betrothed. LOL He doesn't have to be sleeping in the same bed with her for her to be his "mom".I don't think we'll see him kissing her, either.Nah, he doesn't have to sleep in the same bed for that. Actually, in a normal relationship, I'd say boys that old living sleeping with their mothers it's not a good thing. Then again, this is ASOIAF/GoT. "Normal relationships" need not to apply. As for the kiss, I think both Robin and Tommen are in an, well... creepy? weird? something else? position. They both betrothed to hot young women, both are at the brink of puberty - if they aren't there already and, legally, they have a position of power over them. Robin has entitlement issues which Tommen, so far, doesn't.As I said, I've given up trying to determine the characters ages. I don't even know if they are supposed to be consistent. But I wonder if D&D are going to tackle those characters nascent sexuality or if they are going to ignore it completely and pretend they are still 9-10 years old infants. Oh, here's an interview with Sophie Turner/reporters defense of Sansa. Many of the things there have been discussed in this forum many times, and some seem to apply only to the books (she did kneel at her wedding in the show).http://www.tvguide.com/News/Game-Of-Thrones-Defending-Sansa-1081921.aspxMy favorite quote of the interview She put on a polite smile and bided her time. So don't be fooled by her complaisant demeanor. Just because she might not recite her hit list every night, doesn't mean she isn't as strong or determined as Arya. She's simply better at hiding it."That's why people should fear Sansa more than Arya I think, because no one knows what Sansa's thinking. And it's all up in here," Turner says, tapping her head. "People don't know that she wants to go around killing everyone. She would love to be Arya for a day just killing everyone, but she can't because she knows that would just get her killed quicker." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Maybe, but he knows she's his cousin and betrothed. They're not technically betrothed, since she's still married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 They're not technically betrothed, since she's still married. True, but Robin already speaks of "when we're married", so so far he's certain he'll end up banging her sometime in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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