[Book Spoilers] Nitpick With Impunity

[David Selig]

Do any of you watch Vikings? It's this show that, while it's not especially well written or anything, it's very self aware. So it doesn't try too hard to be profound or anything. For that, I really enjoy it. Everything fits the tone, and it's really exciting to watch. But that's not why I bring it up. There was one scene in particular where the main character, Ragnar Lothbrok, and his vikings are raiding a town in England (which involves a lot of indiscriminate slaughter). At that point the show was trying to sell us the idea that Ragnar had some compassion. While he and his comrades were looking for treasure in a little house, Ragnar spies a little English child hiding in a corner. He looks back, looks at the child, and then puts a blanket on top of him. That's all the show needed to tell us.

But with the modern GoT Dawson's Creek style writing, that's not enough for our audience. They have to make sure that we know that Ygritte is doing something compassionate. Instead of simply closing the curtain and walking away, allowing us to digest the incredibly obvious fact that she's doing an act of compassion rather than simply being too bored to deal with Gilly, they have to give us that little shot of her saying "shh" and putting her finger over her mouth. Of course these writers have to go that extra mile for those of us in the audience whom they perceive to be absolutely fucking retarded and in need of every non-subtle explicit explanation of what's happening.

I know this is a little deal, but it's just one of the many stupid displays of zero subtlety in the GoT writing that made me want to throw a boot at the TV screen.

This is one of the main reasons GoT is nowhere near the all time great TV shows. The writers spoon-feed the viewers way too much.

[Chebyshov]

I know, I want my Roose shaved, dammit. I can understand the side-eye that he gave to Ramsey letting Reek shave him, but surely....Roose COULD do it himself, couldn't he?

I think he's depressed. We might see him in sweatpants in E10.

I am glad that Batman has toned down his Batvoice though.

He had one line though that stuck out. I was like "goddamnit, you were reeling it in all episode!"

[BuggerThemAll]

The futility of the search for meaning. But it was poorly done, dragged on, and incredibly not PC.

Or that! I actually like this more. :)

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Do any of you watch Vikings? It's this show that, while it's not especially well written or anything, it's very self aware. So it doesn't try too hard to be profound or anything. For that, I really enjoy it. Everything fits the tone, and it's really exciting to watch. But that's not why I bring it up. There was one scene in particular where the main character, Ragnar Lothbrok, and his vikings are raiding a town in England (which involves a lot of indiscriminate slaughter). At that point the show was trying to sell us the idea that Ragnar had some compassion. While he and his comrades were looking for treasure in a little house, Ragnar spies a little English child hiding in a corner. He looks back, looks at the child, and then puts a cloth on top of him and walks away. That's all the show needed to tell us.

But with the modern GoT Dawson's Creek style writing, of course that's not enough for us, the plebeian audience. They have to make sure that we know what's going on. Instead of simply having her close the curtain and walking away, allowing us to digest the incredibly obvious fact that she's acting from compassion rather than simply being too bored to deal with Gilly, they have to give us that little shot of her saying "shh" and putting her finger over her mouth, so that Ygritte and Gilly can clue us in on their little secret. Of course these writers have to go that extra mile for those of us in the audience whom they perceive to be absolutely fucking retarded and in need of every non-subtle explicit explanation of what's happening.

I know this is a small deal, but it's just one of the many stupid displays of zero subtlety in the GoT writing that made me want to throw a boot at the TV screen.

Yep. I know what you are saying.

I suspect they did it in the way they did to try to get the audience to remember they should be on Ygritte's side in some way.

(I am not being an apologist here, I think the entire story of the Wall has been underdone for the 3rd season in a row and this was a ham-fisted way of trying to get one small part of it on track.)

[Bridgeburners]

This is one of the main reasons GoT is nowhere near the all time great TV shows. The writers spoon-feed the viewers way too much.

I know, but couldn't they at least be more well written than Vikings?

Here's something else... when Ygritte skewered that brothel owner who made herself out to be an antagonistic shit-head earlier in the scene... were we supposed to applaud and cheer? I don't know, that's what it felt like the writers were trying to do with that, but maybe it's just me. I mean, she still ruthlessly just murdered an innocent person that she never met. I really hope nobody was applauding at that, because that would be pretty scary on the audience's behalf.

[voodooqueen126]

I think

I'm wondering, do we even know for sure that they said; Pillar and Stones? I thought it might have been pillow and stones, like LF to Varys on the show and, iirc, that's the phrase used in the books? Now, I'm not even sure about any of it, LOL

I think the book they say "root and branch".

Anyway Sansa's jewellery in her Mockinjay dress, also the cleavage was not really appropriate for mourning.

Greyworm gazing at Missandei.... the man was castrated before the age of 5, I am going to go out on a limb and say that he would not necessarily develop a standard heterosexual male sexuality given the lack of secondary sexual characteristics. Friendship, and the need to be held sure, but probably less interested in bewbs..

Sweet Robin's lack of mourning for his mother.

Burping sex workers in Mole's Town.

Finally: Beetle monologue.

[Chebyshov]

Here's something else... when Ygritte skewered that brothel owner who made herself out to be an antagonistic shit-head earlier in the scene... were we supposed to applaud and cheer? I don't know, that's what it felt like the writers were trying to do with that, but maybe it's just me. I mean, she still ruthlessly just murdered an innocent person that she never met. I really hope nobody was applauding at that, because that would be pretty scary on the audience's behalf.

I don't think so; I think we were supposed to feel conflicted about Ygritte and her position. The only moment we might have cheered for in the sack was Ygritte not killing Gilly.

[Queen of Whores]

Do any of you watch Vikings? It's this show that, while it's not especially well written or anything, it's very self aware. So it doesn't try too hard to be profound or anything. For that, I really enjoy it. Everything fits the tone, and it's really exciting to watch. But that's not why I bring it up. There was one scene in particular where the main character, Ragnar Lothbrok, and his vikings are raiding a town in England (which involves a lot of indiscriminate slaughter). At that point the show was trying to sell us the idea that Ragnar had some compassion. While he and his comrades were looking for treasure in a little house, Ragnar spies a little English child hiding in a corner. He looks back, looks at the child, and then puts a cloth on top of him and walks away. That's all the show needed to tell us.

But with the modern GoT Dawson's Creek style writing, of course that's not enough for us, the plebeian audience. They have to make sure that we know what's going on. Instead of simply having her close the curtain and walking away, allowing us to digest the incredibly obvious fact that she's acting from compassion rather than simply being too bored to deal with Gilly, they have to give us that little shot of her saying "shh" and putting her finger over her mouth, so that Ygritte and Gilly can clue us in on their little secret. Of course these writers have to go that extra mile for those of us in the audience whom they perceive to be absolutely fucking retarded and in need of every non-subtle explicit explanation of what's happening.

I know this is a small deal, but it's just one of the many stupid displays of zero subtlety in the GoT writing that made me want to throw a boot at the TV screen.

I haven't seen Vikings, but that's a great example. Another is True Detective. When Rust is undercover with the bikers and they're raiding a drug stash-house, Rust searches all the rooms to look for anyone else, and when he finds a small boy, he unsentimentally and briskly takes the boy by the arm, puts him in the bathtub and tells him to stay down.

A very simple yet telling scene. Rust is not a sentimental hero in the traditional sense by any means. He's a dark, haunted and morally ambiguous cop, yet he still has a small bit of basic human decency left in him, so he makes sure the kid is relatively safe. No cheesy music or camera zooms, just showing it how it is, and not spoon-feeding the audience by saying "hey look at this! Isn't s/he a great and compassionate and deep person because s/he spared a kid?? How deep is this?? Did you see it??? Did you see the looks in their faces???"

Anyway, rant over. The scene would have been fine had Ygritte just given Gilly and the baby a glance, close the curtains and walk away. The simplicity of the scene would have been more affecting, in my opinion, than a long and cheesy series of close-up shots on faces.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

I haven't seen Vikings, .

I recommend. It isn't 'perfect', but it is powerful and at times stunning.

[Queen of Whores]

I recommend. It isn't 'perfect', but it is powerful and at times stunning.

Will do. I remember watching about the half of the first episode when it first came out and not being overly impressed, but I'll definitely give it another shot and be a bit more patient. It has Gabriel Byrne in it, so that's one reason right there I'll watch it a bit more, since after binging the first season of In Treatment a while ago I was amazed at his performance.

[Mark Antony]

Pedro Pascal, Indira Varma and Lena Headey (despite having no lines) saved the episode tbh..

Lena does more with her facial expressions than most of the actors with full monologues. She's the best :wub:

[Arya Stark Rules]

One of the worst episodes I have watched since starting to watch this show.

Sansa's dress was horrible, she looked like Diana Ross about to perform in feathers.

Arya's laugh was soo cringe-worthy, and the whole stark sibling about to reach their sibling and something happens is getting old.

Tyrion talking about beetles, I don't even want to talk about that part.

The Jorah whitewashing, really needs to stop at this point. Most of the unsullied are rooting for Jorah in that situation, whiles in the book he clearly did worse, such as his creepy desires for Dany etc.

And the whole banishment was rushed, Dany didn't even take time to consider it.

Kit Harrington is showing no improvement on his acting, I am starting to wonder why someone else wasn't casted as Jon.

Ramsey scenes are such a bore fest.

The only good thin about this episode was the duel, I was really disappointed in this episode.

.

[Arya Stark Rules]

I think the show has officially jumped the shark.

• Missandei/Grey Worm. I can't even put into words how cringeworthy everything was.

Dany is braiding her handmaiden's hair now??? Ok. Glad to see she's having such a great time of being queen that she can just act like a handmaid.

Why was Missandei even bathing in a lake?

Show-Missandei isn't even close to being as intelligent as book-Missandei, despite being an adult. WTF?

Jorah's exile was way too rushed, which is ridiculous considering all the time they've had this season to build up to it. He was also completely whitewashed, and in true D&D style they chose to focus on his mainpain instead of Daenerys, who just found out she was betrayed by her only friend.

The beetle scene...

Whose idea was it to have the Arya scene end with her laughing? It was so unconvincing and awkward to watch. And despite the Hound being wanted by the crown, he just reveals himself to the guards? And there's not even a follow-up scene dealing with the repercussions of this?

Sansa becoming Maleficent. Lol what even.

Pedro Pascal, Indira Varma and Lena Headey (despite having no lines) saved the episode tbh. Nikolaj and Peter were terrible. It felt like they were playing completely different characters.

I agree with everything you said especially the last sentence

[Winter.Is.Coming]

Did not see the reason for the Missandei/Grey worm scenes - It felt unnecessary unless they are actually going somewhere important with it and it is going to be of relevance.

The Hound and Arya arriving at the Bloody Gate really rings with idiocy - Surely the fact that Arya Stark (presumed dead) and the Hound (currently has a bounty) turning up would alarm the guards and invite more questions? If they both turn around and leave for elsewhere without any repercussions then the inclusion of this scene is surely a bad idea.

I like that the show portrayed Sansa's transformation from a dim-witted girl with dreams to a girl who is more a realist, I think her revelation of her true identity to the Lords Declarant is a questionable move from the showrunners at this point. Littlefinger's eventual plan to reveal Sansa's identity did not even occur at the end of AFFC, so it seems that they have gone too far with Sansa's arc

However, I do feel like they did the Trial by Combat justice (although they spent way too long on Tyrion's beetle speech- they should have devoted this time to the fight) but it is sad too see Oberyn die - I think that Pedro Pascals performance and portrayal of the Red Viper this season has been amazing

[~DarkHorse~]

One of the worst episodes I have watched since starting to watch this show.

Sansa's dress was horrible, she looked like Diana Ross about to perform in feathers.

Arya's laugh was soo cringe-worthy, and the whole stark sibling about to reach their sibling and something happens is getting old.

Tyrion talking about beetles, I don't even want to talk about that part.

The Jorah whitewashing, really needs to stop at this point. Most of the unsullied are rooting for Jorah in that situation, whiles in the book he clearly did worse, such as his creepy desires for Dany etc.

And the whole banishment was rushed, Dany didn't even take time to consider it.

Kit Harrington is showing no improvement on his acting, I am starting to wonder why someone else wasn't casted as Jon.

Ramsey scenes are such a bore fest.

The only good thin about this episode was the duel, I was really disappointed in this episode.

.

What exactly was he supposed to do? He was silently brooding like Jon was supposed to be doing.

I think he has been great this season and people overdo the whole 'crap acting' card with him, confusing it for underwhelming scenes. Jon is a sullen character (one who doesn't display emotion on his sleeves) so I don't know what people are expecting. I'm going to hold my judgement for next week when he has a real emotional scene (Ygritte dying).

My nitpicks-

• Beetle scene was meaningful but too long.

I would have liked to see more Oberyn- Pedro is a fantastic actor and Oberyn a character with limited time. USE him!

Sansa's dress (Queen Ravenna from Snow White?) and I feel as if LF/Sansa shippers are being fed. :ack:

Burping whores...at least have her burp 'The Dornishman's wife' in honour of Oberyn.

Other than that, great episode!

[MarieAntoinette]

Sana's storyline at the Eyrie and transformation to player feels a bit rushed. I hope this is only because there is a lot for her in store next season and in WOW.

[ARYa_Nym]

I'm trying to remember exactly where it happened (maybe that village The Hound and Arya worked at? or the Inn?) but I think I recall something about Arya thinking how The Hound's dream of selling her to Lady Lysa dies maybe at the foothills to the Vale, proabably near the Inn? Then, he may be back to the idea of The Blackfish and Riverrun? Something like that, and Arya is thinking how she was always trying for Riverrun and never makes it?

Arya finds out in AFFC.

"The lady of the Vale was her mother's own sister. "Lady Lysa," she said," is she?" "...dead?" finished the freckled boy whose head was full of courtesans. "Aye. Murdered by her own singer." "Oh." It 's nought to me. Cat of the Canals never had an aunt. She never did. Cat lifted her barrow and wheeled away..."

In the books he wanted to take her to the Vale. She never wanted to go (she wanted to go to the Wall) but the path there was blocked and/or too dangerous.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Arya finds out in AFFC.

In the books he wanted to take her to the Vale. She never wanted to go (she wanted to go to the Wall) but the path there was blocked and/or too dangerous.

Thanks, I think I'm remembering now......the plan for The Vale died, not Lysa herself, LOL

[Ser Dank the Jedi]

My only nitpick is the Hound and Arya's scene. The "Lol Heard 'Round the World" was great. Announcing, "Hey, here's the missing Stark girl," not so much.

Why so much hate for the Beetle scene? I thought it was clever, and funny as hell. It was a rare chance to see Jaime and Tyrion acting like brothers before the world got crazy. What else are you going to do the night before your Trial by Combat then to get drunk with your brother (Jaime wasn't drinking though) and reminisce about a mentally handicapped cousin that made you laugh while giving insight into GRRM's mind.

I also thought the Meereen scenes were great. Yeah, Missandei/Grey Worm was filler, but he is an awesome secondary character, and I enjoyed seeing him portrayed as still a man. Dany dismissing Jorah was perfect. She was just as cold in the books as in the show. In her thoughts, she wanted to forgiver her bear, but in reality she came across as harsh.

[yushkevitch]

Sana's storyline at the Eyrie and transformation to player feels a bit rushed. I hope this is only because there is a lot for her in store next season and in WOW.

I think (hope) that it's because the writers realized that the whole Vale angle in the books was way too long and - so far - seemingly unnecessary to the overall story.

With all that is happening elsewhere are we really supposed to be concerned about Sansa/Alayne keeping a sickly, annoying brat's fits under control? It would seem the show writes decided to fast-track the entire storyline and I for one thank them for that :)