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And doing absolutely nothing of importance.

Besides being friends and allies to Jon Snow....then getting shipped off and not near a POV.

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I'll make it easier: Mance Rayder can not know if a giant can lift the gate. So he sends a mammoth to make sure the gate is indeed opened. It's war, you don't go for the minimum if you can use something better.

Wait a minute...didnt that kinda happen in the books, but off screen? Like a giant gets through the gate and Noye murders the fuck out of it but gets murdered as well. We only saw the aftermath...? Im pretty sure it happened...

But yeah, the Mammoth was there as a gate puller. Yer right.

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I don't even but I'd totally watch that

Don't you remember where Ros tells Gregor: "Don't leave me alone in this world." And then he fights with everything he has left to prevent Mance from getting through the Wall? Even at one point warging into a bear before killing 50,000 of the wildlings? I'm really tired of Stannis getting so much credit for this battle when we all know who the real hero is.

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Yeah, but you and donkey are not of the same efficiency... Here, it was positioned that way that the mammoth and giant were the same. And what's weirder, giant succeeded in such short notice that it is almost hilarious.

They were trying to get the mammoth to rip the gate down to flood it for everybody to rush the tunnel. Again, it's a beast of burden situation. The mammoth is the strongest of the bunch, so have it rip the gate down, that plan failed, so the remaining giant lifts the gate and charges by himself. Just because he had the strength to lift the gate doesn't make it a plot hole. Giants are strong, but they have a mammoth, so have the beast rip down the gate and the giants can lead the attack through the tunnel.

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Yeah, I know that... But, one has to wonder why two giants didn't just lift the gate and people made it permanently opened? This was a plot hole if there ever was one...

If they prop it open then the NW could have destroyed it and shut the gate...they thought they had 1000 men remember...they weren't to know the NW wouldn't surge into the tunnel and burn the tree or whatever they had holding it.

If they pull the gate completely off then there's nothing the NW can do to fix it before Mance gets through.

The only thing better than a gate being held open is no gate at all.

Edited by NightStark

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And this was a good Jon Snow episode? I have no problem with Stannis not being there, I have not problem with the deaths, but this was epic failure. This was like wannabe-Blackwater, and ended somewhere in confusion of what makes a good episode with an epic battle. Nothing here was faithful to the books, and that even isn't the issue here. The issue is that this sucked as the episode, not as the adaptation. This was badly constructed, unimaginative, humorless, uninspiring... There was CGI on some moments, but at the end, nothing that would live up to "as big as Tv gets"

Wow.

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Is it just me or is HBO making it entirely more convincing by the episode that Jon actually does die as a result of his knife wounds? Seriously, the worst treated character in the show and his stupidity is magnified tenfold in the show, which has also decided to take away his only decent quality (skilled swordsman) and made him into a laughing stock as well.



The changes would make a whole heck of a lot more sense if he is indeed dead, despite our prior knowledge that the way Martin wrote that chapter makes it unlikely. But I almost feel it would be more believable now with the way the show has made his character out to be, even more of a dolt (somehow) than he is in the books. And I'm a big Jon fan, for the record.


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The episode didn't show one scene and suddenly it's the worst show on television.

I don't care that much for the missing scenes and all that, but to me this show has a lot of weak links and is definately not one of the better HBO shows, at least not in the top5.

People must know that some of us have been moderately critical of the show since s01e01. Some decisions are really not understandable, like how maester Cressen died (I think they fucked up who drinks first) and why make an abrupt ending like that.

I want this show to be really good. In some instances it is. Today was more or less a good episode. But damn the pacing, the storytelling, the expositions, the unneeded nudity and some boring storylines..

edit: I can deal with the budget limitations...but not when it comes to storytelling.

Edited by Zarafrustra

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WTF!!!! They had time for Sam and Jon talking about sex, but NO STANNIS!?? Not even a minute? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME! This was the only shot of Stannis being the star of an episode! His only shot! Dany and Tyrion and almost everyone else has been the star of at least one episode! I know that he will show up next week, but seriously WHAT THE FUCK? Nobody will care next week! People will talk about Tyrion and Lady Stone Heart and Khaleesi (somehow)! His arrival was going to be an awesome ending! Based on the preview, people can see someone else attacking Mance and it won't be a surprise like it was in the books! FUCK D&D! We have irrefutable evidence that they HATE STANNIS! Someone try to defend the writers on this! I dare you!

Cleary Stannis willl star in an episode in Season 6 where he laughs at Theon for having no dick for half an hour.

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Someone pointed out in the Val thread over on the Casting board that Tormund's capture by the NW pretty much renders Val's mission to retrieve him unnecessary and therefore suggests that she'll be left out of the adaptation. Someone else pointed out that Pyp and Grenn being killed off suggested that D&D were making way for new characters at the Wall...so I don't know what to think, LOL.


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Yeah, I know that... But, one has to wonder why two giants didn't just lift the gate and people made it permanently opened? This was a plot hole if there ever was one...

How is that a plot hole? Two giants could have lifted the gate for what? A mammoth to lead the charge through the tunnel lead by regular wildlings? The beast of burden is there to provide brute strength, the rest are there for their skills in battle.. Let the mammoth rip the gate down so the rest can save their strength for actual fighting. Nothing about this is a plot hole.

Edited by DaveyJoe

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Is it just me or is HBO making it entirely more convincing by the episode that Jon actually does die as a result of his knife wounds? Seriously, the worst treated character in the show and his stupidity is magnified tenfold in the show, which has also decided to take away his only decent quality (skilled swordsman) and made him into a laughing stock as well.

Did you actually see him fighting...he was demolishing people?

I seem to remember even the great Jaime Lannister got disarmed and captured at Whispering Wood. No matter how good you are you can still be taken down..we've seen that numerous times...Barristan Selmy injured at the Trident, Jaime captured, Arthur Dayne killed.

Edited by NightStark

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How is that a plot hole? Two giants could have lifted the gate for what? A mammoth to lead the charge through the tunnel lead by regular wildlings? The beast of burden is there to provide brute strength, the rest are there for the murderous facilities. Let the mammoth rip the gate down so the rest can save their strength for actual fighting. Nothing about this is a plot hole.

Agreed. The point is to open the tunnel, allowing many more fighters to get into the tunnel and away from oil bombs and arrows in order open the inner gates for the main horde.

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The battle was amazing. Thorne against Tormund? Random but awesome. I didn't know who to root for but I know I wanted Ygritte to die. She really was unbearable. Pyp's death came out of nowhere but Grenn was obviously Donal Noye so no surprise there. A couple of changes were just strange like that giant metal hook built and the guys repelling down the Wall... but I liked the episode.



I wonder how Slynt's cowardice is going to come back on him. I wish there was more Ghost. He killed like one dude and that was it.



I expected Stannis to show up too but they didn't get to that part of the book yet. :dunno:


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This and episode 6 and 7 are the shortest of the season. Makes no sense why this is the shortest episode.

Pacing.

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Cleary Stannis willl star in an episode in Season 6 where he laughs at Theon for having no dick for half an hour.

Season 6 will probably change him so that he burns the northerners for not following R'hllor. Then they will show a 20 minute scene of Dany with Hizdahr

Edited by Bilbo Swaggins

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Can someone do me a favor and photoshop an image of the actor who plays Stannis onto a milk carton? Preferably with that "If you see me, call" etc language? Someone must have the talent and know what I'm thinking about. This "meme" could be big.

Do it yourself, lazybones.

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