[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick Without Repercussion

[Cas Stark]

I have to admit, I'm stuck pondering where they are going with the Mance and Tormund equation. Part of me thinks that somehow Tormund will escape captivity and wind up in charge of the great remainder of the Wilding Host, but part of me thinks that Mance may just die, and somehow Tormund will take the Mance part.......off to Winterfell with his stories and maybe even a harp? Or, I suppose that Tormund may do the negotiating on a release such as Val did. I guess we'll know once we see who winds up in Mance's tent and if Rattleshirt turns up as a prisoner of Stannis?

It's kind of a mess, everything in the vicinity of The Wall. I agree with previous opinions I've read........there is a reason that GRRM did not show Tormund murdering regular folk left and right, same with Ygritte and keeping her actions down to one throat slitting.

Kill Mance and we will get Val afterall. HBO does like hot chicks afterall.

[gvewolf243]

Season 1 is still easily my favorite :P

:agree:

[David Selig]

Honestly, I see more negativity in these threads than praise, because people act like the show is blaspheming a sacred text...but there's never been any show or movie that stayed completely and utterly faithful to its source material. And deviating from the source material isn't necessarily a bad thing...especially in the case of ASoIaF, where there are SOOOO many expendable characters and plot lines.

Sure, the problem for me is that most of the deviations are just poorly written IMO. D&D are just not good at writing dialogue at all. So many cringe-worthy lines. So many plot holes too in almost every episode. Sure, there are some good changes, but most of them just don't work for me. Not because they are different from the novels, but because they jsut aren't that good IMO.

[gvewolf243]

My main nit pick (i agree with a few listed here as well) is that it really seems to me that HBO could not afford the luxury of wasting an entire episode on one battle. Sure it made for decent TV, but at t he expense of the story IMO. And then, next week, the finale, will be marred by constant rushing to fit in what, 5 plot lines? Tyrion/Shae/Tywin, Arya/Hound, Bran/Jojen/Meera, Sansa, The Wall, Meereen, Ramsay/Theon (maybe?)... They should have tried to split the difference between the two epsiodes.

I think that Ramsay/Theon this season story-arc ended in 8th episode . There should be Brienne in next episode, though.

[RottenAppleFossoway]

My biggest problem with the episode was the length. It was simply too short for me; a problem that has been a reoccurring all season

[sj4iy]

I have to admit, I'm stuck pondering where they are going with the Mance and Tormund equation. Part of me thinks that somehow Tormund will escape captivity and wind up in charge of the great remainder of the Wilding Host, but part of me thinks that Mance may just die, and somehow Tormund will take the Mance part.......off to Winterfell with his stories and maybe even a harp? Or, I suppose that Tormund may do the negotiating on a release such as Val did. I guess we'll know once we see who winds up in Mance's tent and if Rattleshirt turns up as a prisoner of Stannis?

It's kind of a mess, everything in the vicinity of The Wall. I agree with previous opinions I've read........there is a reason that GRRM did not show Tormund murdering regular folk left and right, same with Ygritte and keeping her actions down to one throat slitting.

I think Jon will send Tormund out to deal with the Wildlings and bring them back to the Wall...basically, just cut the middleman (Val) out and have Jon deal directly with Tormund. I think we will still get Rattleshirt/Mance switch, because Rattleshirt was still an asshole in the show, too. Stannis could take Rattleshirt captive during the raid.

This is just my thinking, of course...I could be totally wrong, but it makes sense to me XD

[sj4iy]

I think that Ramsay/Theon this season story-arc ended in 8th episode . There should be Brienne in next episode, though.

I would say Sansa's storyline is done for the season, too.

[sj4iy]

:agree:

For me it goes:

Season 4

Season 1

Season 3

Season 2

I think this season has just been a blast.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Kill Mance and we will get Val afterall. HBO does like hot chicks afterall.

I do highly suspect that they may kill Mance and still.......not replace him with the Hot Chick, LOL

I'm not sure, I just can see many possibilities from the equation right now. The extreme lack of Mance so far does have me wondering.

[zaphodbrx]

Part III

The nonsense at the gate

The problems with the gate are so glaring that even non book readers pick it up at once. Here's a comment from the PTV unsullied.

Keeping in mind that I have never actually been a NW nor tried to fend off giants nor mammoths from a 1000 ft plus ice wall, so I'm talking out my ass here, why did they not drop a bunch of flaming barrels right on the giant as he was trying to lift the outer gate?!? I mean shit, is that not obvious to everyone watching? You dont wait until he lifts the damn gate, you hit him before he opens the damnn gate, yanno, when he is still trying to lift it. DUH. Any NW should know that. That sort of lame detail breaks my concentration and my mind calls a big fat bullshit, taking me totally out of the moment.

Exactly and this is one of the big problems with the scene.

Here's another: Why is the gate even 'liftable' ?

Surely it should be secured by massive bolts and crossbars on the other side. Or are they so moronic to think the weight of the gate makes it secure enough?

Next: Once the giant lifts it up. He just goes inside and lets the gate drop, letting all the work go to waste, trapping himself inside.

WTF? How about 2 giants lift the gate, hold it open while a swarm of wildlings ( and say another giant ) go inside ?

Apparently, giants have peanut sized brains.

And the reaction of the NW to the giant lifting the door is: Let's go down and hold the gate.

How about: Let's drop things on him! And shoot him with a scorpion bolt. And have a bunch of men ALREADY in place, instead of clambering up and down the wall?

You know.. like the books?

Damn, if only D & D read books.

No tactical thinking . No battering ram, no Turtle, no barrels filled with solid ice & gravel, no Donal Noye. Just mindless action.

And finally: If going up against a giant. Why not get a bunch of pikes and halberds? You could poke at him through the porticullis as one. Naah.. just turn up with whatever you have..

[Nictarion]

Season 1 is still easily my favorite :P

Same here.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I think Jon will send Tormund out to deal with the Wildlings and bring them back to the Wall...basically, just cut the middleman (Val) out and have Jon deal directly with Tormund. I think we will still get Rattleshirt/Mance switch, because Rattleshirt was still an asshole in the show, too. Stannis could take Rattleshirt captive during the raid.

This is just my thinking, of course...I could be totally wrong, but it makes sense to me XD

You may be right, I was just trying to think of other possibilities. The one thing that makes me think Tormund will not do the Winterfell duty in Mance's place is that I highly suspect that Mance is prisoner of The Bastard, if not dead, if even most of the pink letter is bullshit.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Sure, the problem for me is that most of the deviations are just poorly written IMO. D&D are just not good at writing dialogue at all. So many cringe-worthy lines. So many plot holes too in almost every episode. Sure, there are some good changes, but most of them just don't work for me. Not because they are different from the novels, but because they jsut aren't that good IMO.

One of my main problems is that they don't keep track of their own changes and have them make sense, such as The Hound and his code about stealing until well.........he needs to steal something from someone.

[lostinwesteros]

My post got lost, and after searching and searching across all topics for this episode and the ones for predictions about episode 10, I still can't even find it in the thread I thought I posted it in - damn internet!

Anyway, my nitpick is actually in the preview for episode 10 shown at the end of this episode. Arya is shown saying "there's people coming". We know she is of noble birth and that her grammar is proper" (she speaks 'properly', as per that episode with Tywin when she was his cupbearer). So why is she saying "There's people" instead of "There're people" ??? Has she been traveling with rough characters for so long that she's picked up their way of speaking? I know this is a pretty minor point, but it really gave me a jolt when I heard it, and I'm completely mystified by it. It's bugging me.

If anyone has a theory to share, please post it! Thanks!

[Mark Antony]

Same here.

What a surprise we agree on something :D

I do think season 4 will end up probably being my 2nd favorite but I feel like 2,3, and 4 are all of a very similar quality while season 1 is a notch above the other 3.

And yes lack of Mance this episode was a puzzling decision. Poor Caesar :((

[WildBlood]

Excuse me this isn't an electrical system that you just have to 'put in motion'. And besides, we also see the kid do it a few other times.

maybe there was an ox or a horse system... Isnt that how it worked in the books? Possible oversight by hbo

[Lady Fevre Dream]

What a surprise we agree on something :D

I do think season 4 will end up probably being my 2nd favorite but I feel like 2,3, and 4 are all of a very similar quality while season 1 is a notch above the other 3.

And yes lack of Mance this episode was a puzzling decision. Poor Caesar :((

And to think, I thought that actor got the bum rush as Aberforth Dumbledore in the HP movies. :crying:

[Cas Stark]

I do highly suspect that they may kill Mance and still.......not replace him with the Hot Chick, LOL

I'm not sure, I just can see many possibilities from the equation right now. The extreme lack of Mance so far does have me wondering.

Oh come on. Val and Mel can take baths together, it will be awesome!

Extreme lack of Mance is an understatement at this point.

I'm also wondering..and this is not a nitpick, but maybe Stannis dies at the beginning of Winds...how else to explain the massive lack of Stannis? I mean, for fuck's sake, Stannis is not even the star of his own storyline.

[The ~ Red ~ Viper]

I have to admit, I'm stuck pondering where they are going with the Mance and Tormund equation. Part of me thinks that somehow Tormund will escape captivity and wind up in charge of the great remainder of the Wilding Host, but part of me thinks that Mance may just die, and somehow Tormund will take the Mance part.......off to Winterfell with his stories and maybe even a harp? Or, I suppose that Tormund may do the negotiating on a release such as Val did. I guess we'll know once we see who winds up in Mance's tent and if Rattleshirt turns up as a prisoner of Stannis?

It's kind of a mess, everything in the vicinity of The Wall. I agree with previous opinions I've read........there is a reason that GRRM did not show Tormund murdering regular folk left and right, same with Ygritte and keeping her actions down to one throat slitting.

Yeah it is a bit of a mess,they didn't need all that killing on the way up there,and if mance only gets one scene then that means that kid got more screen time this season.they dididn't even need him to kill ygritte.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Oh come on. Val and Mel can take baths together, it will be awesome!

Extreme lack of Mance is an understatement at this point.

I'm also wondering..and this is not a nitpick, but maybe Stannis dies at the beginning of Winds...how else to explain the massive lack of Stannis? I mean, for fuck's sake, Stannis is not even the star of his own storyline.

When I popped into the general discussion thread last night after the episode, I did say that I highly suspect that D&D would have already killed off Stannis if he wasn't still making shit happen in sample chapters in TWOW. I do have to say, I expect Stannis to die in the books but I haven't a clue when......maybe toward the end of TWOW, maybe?