Sci-2 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 BUT WHO WAS PHONE? ...I'll see myself to the door now. >Be me. >TFW conditioned into killing my father in hope of butt sex. >Whole tribe hates me. >What do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Filet Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Sorry to interrupt to the current thread but need a venue to vent. Just started reading The Fellowship of the Rings and was really enjoying it until Akka and company decide to go under Caradhras via the Black Halls of Cil-Aujas. You're better than this, Bakker!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Sorry to interrupt to the current thread but need a venue to vent. Just started reading The Fellowship of the Rings and was really enjoying it until Akka and company decide to go under Caradhras via the Black Halls of Cil-Aujas. You're better than this, Bakker!!!I think you're missing the point... The entire thing is an homage/inversion of LotR. You're absolutely supposed to see parallels there and then later with the dark version of Fangorn forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 As Rhom said, the homage to Tolkien is deliberate, and there are many more set pieces that directly mimic Tolkien’s Hobbit and Rings. Another huge fictional analogy in the second trilogy is to McCormick’s Blood Meridian. The first trilogy, by comparison, contains many deliberate set pieces from real history, in particular the First Crusade. (Dune runs through everything, and you can find Foucault and Derrida and probably many other things.) These deliberate homages are of course purely Tolkienesque themselves, the Silmarillion is very deliberately a patchwork and conglomerate of previous European myths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 yeah, glanton gang invades moria, but brings own balrog, kid has superpowers, gandalf survives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Filet Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I think you're missing the point... The entire thing is an homage/inversion of LotR. You're absolutely supposed to see parallels there and then later with the dark version of Fangorn forest. A bit too blatant for my liking, guess I'm in for more disappointment. Prince of Nothing undoubtedly took inspiration from the Bible, Silmarillion, Dune, the Crusades etc., but the storyline seemed to me pretty OG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 … the storyline seemed to me pretty OG. I encourage you to read up on the First Crusade, then. The People’s Crusade, Emperor Alexius I’s homage, the siege of Antioch (down to bribing a guard to open a gate), and probably much more. (You’re free to not like this at all. But it’s deliberate. And, at least to me, Bakker succeeds: he makes Moria feels like a holiday trip, Fangorn like a Baroque garden, and Bilbo’s conversation with Smaug like idle chit-chat. He actually out-Tolkiens Tolkien on his own turf, which I find audacious. Mileage, vary, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 who is RSB's tom bombadil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 who is RSB's tom bombadil?Sarl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 who is RSB's tom bombadil? Mekeritrig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 if WLW did not give a fuck, and sang awful songs, then he could be bombadil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 layers of revelation are fucking irritating, aren't they?Yea, really fucking irritating. Why doesn't he just call them ascetic? What am I missing here? Am I toooo fucking dumb to read these books? My exact reasoning behind being a 90% lurker of this thread. I love the books, but you guys had to basically teach me this metaphysics shit. Anybody have some good children books I might grasp? Seriously though...just poking fun at myself. I reeeaaaaalllly need to do a re-read, don't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 A reread won't likely help. If you dont' have the basis for the understanding of the references in the first place, rereading them again doesn't make it clearer. It's darmok and jalad at tanagra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I mean here's what im saying i get whats going on with the plot and such. Just some of the deeper meta references and such, i never picked that up on my own. You guys helped me along in that aspect. Like the whole watcher and the watched, its a big part of understanding the gods. I was really just poking fun at myself. I understand it once you've pointed it out, i guess my mind dont delve that deep on a initial read. Ok, like locke said, by me giving the definition of ascetic i basically proved his point for him. I guess i have trouble revealing the layers on my own. So please, someone answer me.....we are more than likely gonna find out that there is way more to the Dunyain, and that is why Bakker purposely used ecstatic? Am i right or am i fucking right? Help me out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 It's darmok and jalad at tanagra. Aurax. His phallus glistens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 My suspicion is that the last book is going to be somewhat disappointing in the same way that Olympos was disappointing compared to Ilium (Dan Simmons). There's been a lot of setup of things, but I suspect the payoff is going to be either stuff that is completely out of left field and would have never been remotely predicted, or the things are just not going to be addressed at all. My suspicion is that there will be a decent amount of outcry that the ending is 'cheap'. So specifically on the Dunyain: I don't think we're going to find out much more about them. Note that in the last two books there have been virtually no revelations about the Dunyain. I think we got about as much backstory as we were going to in the first three books. That's not really cheap to me -as I said, we've had almost no discussion about the Dunyain in the last two books, so talking about them more seems odd - but many will be pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Haters gonna... STFU after TUC ;). Trololololo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Madness, thus far its my favorite fantasy series ive read. And i have nothing but high hopes for TUC. I would like for loose ends to be tied up though. Hope we learn the fate of the Dunyain, alot more of the Consult and pray it dont tie into Nueropath in anyway. Like i said before, i hope the setting stays strictly in Earwa. While im at it, any news on a release date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Yea, really fucking irritating. Why doesn't he just call them ascetic? What am I missing here? Am I toooo fucking dumb to read these books? My exact reasoning behind being a 90% lurker of this thread. I love the books, but you guys had to basically teach me this metaphysics shit. Anybody have some good children books I might grasp? Seriously though...just poking fun at myself. I reeeaaaaalllly need to do a re-read, don't I? Keep in mind these threads have been digging into the same core topics for years. So a lot of ideas have been fleshed out again and again, with nuances introduced and references touched on and explained. Even glancing at these threads after a hiatus it takes me awhile to recall exactly what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Moria has been ripped off/the recipient of many homages and Cil'Aujas stands tall as easily the best of them I've read and also the one that is most clearly a deliberate homage rather than a rip off. Probably my favourite section of all 5 books so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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