Dany/Tyrion Question

[Hippocras]

Can someone explain to me why Dany is going to make Tyrion Lannister anything but a hostage?

Advisor, dragon rider, Hand?!?!? Why should Dany give anything to a Lannister? Or better question, what makes so many people certain that she will?

Thoughts?

I would say keep in mind circumstances will most likely have changed dramatically by the time they meet. Dany is not IN Meereen and may not be for quite some time.

Meanwhile Tyrion is busy converting the Second Sons back to her side. He might also provoke a slave soldier revolt or at least significant discipline problems and confusion in the Yunkai army that would win her the battle for Meereen.

After the battle, it seems likely he will ride Viserion. Forshadowing rather suggests it. If he can tame and ride one of her dragons and bring Meereen to heel, I would think she would be extremely grateful to him by the time she returns, or their paths meet elsewhere.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Again for those who didn't listen. How is Tyrion a good political asset for Dany?

He got owned almost as bad as the Ned did in KL

He's public enemy #1, anyone who helps him is going to be despised by Westeros.

He's untrustworthy, a kinslayer, and pretty vile at this point.

I guess he has current Westerosi info...but then again so did Quentyn

Got owned. So? He's an enemy to the current regime. That makes him potentially helpful.

Public Enemy #1 according to whom? The smallfolk may be cheering his name for getting rid of Joffrey. We know Cersei wants his head, but we don't know what everyone in Westeros thinks of him at the moment. The worse things get under Cersei, the less inclined people will be to blame Tyrion (who's no longer there) for what's going on.

Untrustworthy. Yeah but she's already been warned not to trust him. Doesn't mean he can't be useful.

Kinslayer, and the kin he slayed happened to be on Dany's hit list so he's been doing her work for her already. I've seen people on here suggest that Dany is a kinslayer for allowing her brother to be crowned the way he was. Technically by Westerosi custom both Tyrion and Dany have been kinslayers from birth, because their mothers died to give them life.

Vile. Again, so what? We're talking about politics here. It is vile. Tyrion knows how "the game" is played Westerosi style. He can be of far more use to Dany in the political aspects of things than Barristan ever could. I'd say only Varys or Littlefinger is as qualified as Tyrion is in this regard. Varys would probably be more trustworthy, and Littlefinger less. Tyrion's not bad for middle ground. And while I hate to mirror the nickname Viserys was given, I think the saying "beggers can't be choosers" applies here.

I wouldn't call him an asset exactly, but she could do worse.

[It-was-koff-the-Pie-koff]

Let's not overlook the fact that Dany trusted Daario Naharis. We can argue whether a reasonable person would trust Tyrion, but that's not really the question. Tyrion is ugly. She probably won't trust him.

This. So much this.

Shavepate 2.0 coming

[Hippocras]

Let's not overlook the fact that Dany trusted Daario Naharis. We can argue whether a reasonable person would trust Tyrion, but that's not really the question. Tyrion is ugly. She probably won't trust him.

This is a silly thing to say based in Dany hate not facts.

She slept with Daario because he is sexy. She never fully trusted him. No one ever pretends that when men have a sexual fling with a woman it means they submit their trust to her or are in love with her. News flash: women are sexual beings capable of sexual relationships without deeper attachment.

Dany missed Daario SEXUALLY when his is gone. She wishes Hizdahr was more like him because she finds his brazenness sexy. At no point does she ever fully trust Daario.

Meanwhile there is not the slightest indication anywhere in the books that Dany's judgements of people are as superficial as you claim. Gravitating towards beauty is an inherently human thing that most people are guilty of, and Dany is not completely exempt, but she has NEVER been show to make judgements purely on that basis.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

How many times has Tyrion been in grave danger and his words have saved him?

The same time his words have also condemned him.

[Hippocras]

The same time his words have also condemned him.

Yeah he gets himself in trouble, then gets himself out of trouble again. But often the process improves or at least changes his position. Trickster.

[Arya Stark Rules]

I agree with the OP, its not canon that Tyrion will join Dany. GRRM's recent interview even played down on them meeting since he said they will "intersect"

[The Dragons Hand]

I imagine the whole thing going like this:

Dany: "Lannister?! Why should i trust you? Do you know what your father did?"

Tyrion: "Do you know what your father did?"

Dany: "What's that supposed to mean?"

Barristan: "Well, here's the thing, my grace..."

That would be great, but Barristan is "But a simple knight, your grace."

[The Dragons Hand]

She didn't immediately call for executions when Barristan was revealed and Jorah was ousted as a traitor. If not overtaken by "Fire and blood" (Which I don't think she will be) she'll give him a chance, and that's all he'll need.

[Hodor the Articulate]

People keep mentioning trust, but Dany needn't trust Tyrion for them to work together. He's just got to be of some use to her, which he is - he's already brought the Second Sons back into her side, and he'll probably be able to convince her that he can bring more support in Westeros.

Also, narratively speaking, a Dany/Tyrion alliance just makes sense. He's not a dragon aficionado, and in Essos, for nothing.

[Hippocras]

People keep mentioning trust, but Dany needn't trust Tyrion for them to work together. He's just got to be of some use to her, which he is - he's already brought the Second Sons back into her side, and he'll probably be able to convince her that he can bring more support in Westeros.

Also, narratively speaking, a Dany/Tyrion alliance just makes sense. He's not a dragon aficionado, and in Essos, for nothing.

This too.

[David Selig]

Two words - plot armour.

[Woman of War]

Two words - plot armour.

Plot armour is an argumentation that makes no sense at all.

Bran would be twice dead if not.....

Dany at least five times if not......

Davos without that tiny island....

Arya would be dead if not.....

Sansa would be dead or raped a hundred times without her hymen's plot armour.

Jaime would have died from infection

Stannis ...... Sam.....

And Sandor may become the the most absurd example of "plot armour" of all, maester behind the rock, LOL.

So what would be the point of a story full of compelling characters if those characters who carry the story are exchanged after a few pages since, sorry, we don't want plot armour?

"Plot armour" is a non-argument, even journalists personalize their documentary features, finding persons whose fate may touch us, in order to reach their readers emotionally.

[SeanF]

I imagine the whole thing going like this:

Dany: "Lannister?! Why should i trust you? Do you know what your father did?"

Tyrion: "Do you know what your father did?"

Dany: "What's that supposed to mean?"

Barristan: "Well, here's the thing, my grace..."

Tyrion has probably learned the lesson that his mouth has got him into trouble too often.

I think it's more likely he'd tell Dany what a just, decent, man her father was; what a monstrous tyrant his father was, and his sister is; how wrong it was for half the lords to rebel against Aerys; how just her cause is, how he murdered his father and nephew because of their tyrannical behaviour etc.

[Mithras]

Tyrion has probably learned the lesson that his mouth has got him into trouble too often.

Think so? :)

[Hippocras]

I hope not!

[SeanF]

Think so? :)

At any rate, he's probably intelligent enough to know that his prospects of survival, and gaining Casterly Rock, will be assisted by praising Dany's family, and blackening his own.

[Hippocras]

At any rate, he's probably intelligent enough to know that his prospects of survival, and gaining Casterly Rock, will be assisted by praising Dany's family, and blackening his own.

I think you are wrong. Lying will not do him favours in the end. He may have learned to be more subtle, but he did not suddenly turn into a spineless flatterer.

The only option is truth. Dany's father was mad and she already knows that.

[Woman of War]

I think you are wrong. Lying will not do him favours in the end. He may have learned to be more subtle, but he did not suddenly turn into a spineless flatterer.

The only option is truth. Dany's father was mad and she already knows that.

I agree

After some initial irritation Dany will swallow the truth about her family and see the value of someone who forces her to think about it. So very different from being either worshipped or getting lied to, truth is an unknown challenge to her.

[marsyao]

Tyrion's first conversation with Griff lays it out quite succinctly.. Both excerpts below from ADwD, Tyrion III (Chapter 9)

"... Why does he imagine that Her Grace would welcome the service of a self-confessed kingslayer and betrayer?” A fair question, thought Tyrion, but what he said was, “The king I slew was sitting on her throne, and all those I betrayed were lions, so it seems to me that I have already done the queen good service.”

I hope this would not be Tyrion's execuse, because Danny's reaction would be "Your brother slew a king and now you admitted you killed another, is this a tradition of your Lannisters? How could I trust you would be loyal to me as your Queen. And you told me killing your own fater is done me a good service, well, I do not think I am as close to you as you to your own father, if sacre blood relationship can not stop you betraying your own family, how could I believe you would not betray me in the future when you consider me somehow do you wrong?"

This is what Tyrion should say "My Queen, I am a notorious Kingslayer and kinslayer, in westero, high born Lords despise me and common folks hate me, I have no friends and no money and no place to go. The only place I can hope to have a future is in your grace's service, that mean I have not other option but be completely loyal to you, I know without a doubt that even you accept me into your service, you still can dispose me like a piece of garbage anytime you like , so in order to convincing you not do so, I would have to prove to be extremely useful to you at all time"