Sandor's "Redemption"

[Bustard]

Finally, if Sandor confronts UnGregor I don't really think the idea of him winning would be a long shot or "in underdog fashion". After all, the one time we saw Sandor cross swords with his brother Sandor didn't really seem to have much trouble handling him at all.

I'm under the impression that Robert Strong is going to be even more dangerous than the Mountain, but I could be wrong. Otherwise I would consider them about even.

Correct me if I'm wrong but what must Sandor 'redeem'... The Brotherhood put him on trial and all the charges were false, riding down the butchers boy was an order from a prince.

I don't think he needs to redeem himself of anything...

Perhaps I should have used the word "revenge" but I meant that he would get his brother back for the burning coal incident.

No. First of, I don't believe there's any such thing as 'redemption'. Secondly, I think that Sandor's story has ended perfectly on the Quiet Isle. I don't even need any confirmation that he's the Gravedigger.

I think that dragging him back to fight his brother would completely undo his character arc.

Redemption is fairly abstract but I wouldn't say there's no such thing. Otherwise the word wouldn't exist.

[Julian Rayne]

I've found it bizarre the idea that Sandor would be the champion. If he's alive, he's retired to a live of peace and quiet. His violent persona, the Hound, is behind him. Why would he then go ''ah yeah let's go fight a friggin duel to the death woohooo!''? Plus, he's visibly limping. This is not exactly a combat-ready champion here. His arc is over, whenever he's the gravedigger or not. There's just no point in suddenly having him show up, raring for another go.

Well, as some people have pointed out, mercy killing Gregor would fit in with his arc. As for the combat ready thing, I can't see a way around that.

[LongRider]

If Sandor is the Gravedigger I'd like to see him come back into the story but not to fight RS. The Elder Brother is all about not killing now and Sandor is his novice. Plus, Gregor is dead and RS is a zombie, not the Gregor who burned him.

Plus, I see no reason for the High Sparrow to pick SC; he's new in the faith, has no history of supporting or protecting the faith and it's adherents. Quite the opposite in fact. And yes, he's wanted for desertion and also for what happened in the Salt Pans. We know that wasn't him but the news hasn't reached KL.

If Sandor comes back I can't wait to see what GRRM has in store for him, but I don't think it's facing RS.

[Bustard]

If Sandor is the Gravedigger I'd like to see him come back into the story but not to fight RS. The Elder Brother is all about not killing now and Sandor is his novice. Plus, Gregor is dead and RS is a zombie, not the Gregor who burned him.

Plus, I see no reason for the High Sparrow to pick SC; he's new in the faith, has no history of supporting or protecting the faith and it's adherents. Quite the opposite in fact. And yes, he's wanted for desertion and also for what happened in the Salt Pans. We know that wasn't him but the news hasn't reached KL.

If Sandor comes back I can't wait to see what GRRM has in store for him, but I don't think it's facing RS.

This.

[Julian Rayne]

Redemption is fairly abstract but I wouldn't say there's no such thing. Otherwise the word wouldn't exist.

Ghosts.

[TallTyrion]

I would love for the fight to happen but it's unlikely that it will. Given that who will it be? Are there any famous fighters in the Faith MIlitant?

[Bog Devil of Greywater]

The Hound fighting Gregor as the Faith's Champion just doesn't fit how 'revenge' works in Westeros.

Oberyn Martell wanted revenge, and at best, he traded his life for the life of Gregor Ceglane. That wasn't at all his plan.

Jon Snow got 'revenge' by killing Janos Slynt, but he has no idea of Slynt's betrayal of Ned to begin with, and he executes him for completely different reasons. It was simply revenge for the reader. A fist-pumping moment.

Tyrion got 'revenge' against Tywin's mistreatment, but is now hunted and condemned for murder in his homeland.

Revenge is just simply not that neat and easy in Westeros.

Sandor may be involved with Robert Strongs' demise at some point, but the thing is- Gregor is no longer the man who burned his brothers' face, and the Hound is not the man who wanted Gregor dead for it. If it happens, it may well be out of a sense of sadness or regret for the men who were, and not out of revenge at all.

[ChillyPolly]

I'm posing a hypothetical here. Let's assume:

a.) the gravedigger does turn out to be the Hound

b.) he's somehow recruited by the faith to fight his un-brother in the trial by combat

c.) he wins in true underdog fashion

I'm fine with (a). ( b.) does not make much sense.

I'm not saying I buy into this theory. However, if it were to happen, would you even consider it redemption? The Mountain already got what was coming to him via Oberyn, and is now portrayed as a lifeless monster. To me, killing Franken-Gregor would be the equivalent of pissing on his grave. Hell, it might even put him out of his misery.

Nothing wrong with putting Franken-Gregor out of his misery, but pissing on his grave would be a bit unholy. I think Saint Sandor has a date with a different monster.

Dragons terrible wicked creatures. Brave men kill them. Can a man be brave when he is afraid? That is the only time a man can be brave. Sandor's fear of fire, and his facing of that fear, is already a theme. His ultimate destiny (and redemption) is not hard to guess.

[Bustard]

Ghosts.

I don't see how you can put redemption in the same category as ghosts, anymore than you can "love" or "morality."

[ChillyPolly]

I don't see how you can put redemption in the same category as ghosts, anymore than you can "love" or "morality."

Depends on the category obviously. How about "words containing the letter 'o' "

[RedElder]

You're forgetting Sandor's other legs here. Stranger hasn't stopped fighting, and I think he'll be involved in unGregor's downfall.

[Fire Eater]

I'm posing a hypothetical here. Let's assume:

a.) the gravedigger does turn out to be the Hound

b.) he's somehow recruited by the faith to fight his un-brother in the trial by combat

c.) he wins in true underdog fashion

I'm not saying I buy into this theory. However, if it were to happen, would you even consider it redemption? The Mountain already got what was coming to him via Oberyn, and is now portrayed as a lifeless monster. To me, killing Franken-Gregor would be the equivalent of pissing on his grave. Hell, it might even put him out of his misery.

Except how would Sandor know it is Gregor's body? The HS wouldn't let Sandor fight as it would end in kinslaying which the Faith abhors. I don't see the point of building up Ungregor just o lose his trial by combat.

It wouldn't be redemption since it was Sandor's original life goal, and he wouldn't be saving anyone by doing it.

He is on a redemption arc, and I think his redemption would come from rescuing Sansa. I think he would kill Ungregor in that instance, but be mortally wounded.

[OldGimletEye]

The Hound fighting Gregor as the Faith's Champion just doesn't fit how 'revenge' works in Westeros.

Oberyn Martell wanted revenge, and at best, he traded his life for the life of Gregor Ceglane. That wasn't at all his plan.

Jon Snow got 'revenge' by killing Janos Slynt, but he has no idea of Slynt's betrayal of Ned to begin with, and he executes him for completely different reasons. It was simply revenge for the reader. A fist-pumping moment.

Tyrion got 'revenge' against Tywin's mistreatment, but is now hunted and condemned for murder in his homeland.

Revenge is just simply not that neat and easy in Westeros.

Sandor may be involved with Robert Strongs' demise at some point, but the thing is- Gregor is no longer the man who burned his brothers' face, and the Hound is not the man who wanted Gregor dead for it. If it happens, it may well be out of a sense of sadness or regret for the men who were, and not out of revenge at all.

I tend to agree. I think if Sandor does fight Gregor aka Robert Strong it will only because he no longer seeks revenge. In GRRM's world, people tend not to get what they want.

[Bog Devil of Greywater]

In GRRM's world, people tend not to get what they want.

It is known.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Sandor wasn't in peace. Now he is. The Faith helped him to gain it, are they going to make him fight his brother again?

Yes, it sounds obvious that Sandor is going to fight Gregor, but maybe they choose someone else, for one main reasons.

Cersei wins, apparently, according to Mercy chapter. If she wins, that means Gregor wins. If Gregor wins, means Sandor is dead. I doubt he will die so early on the story. He needs to meet Little Bird again.

[White Ravens]

Nothing wrong with putting Franken-Gregor out of his misery, but pissing on his grave would be a bit unholy. I think Saint Sandor has a date with a different monster.

Dragons terrible wicked creatures. Brave men kill them. Can a man be brave when he is afraid? That is the only time a man can be brave. Sandor's fear of fire, and his facing of that fear, is already a theme. His ultimate destiny (and redemption) is not hard to guess.

Poor Sandor. I think he has found redemption already on the Quiet Isle but life isn't fair in the GRRMiverse, so he will likely be drawn back to fighting but only for something that he strongly believes in. That may end up being the act of protecting Sansa or Arya. I agree with those who think it unlikely that he will fight Robert Strong. You may be right about him having to face a fire-breathing dragon, only GRRM knows. But I do think he will have to face down his fear of fire if he is drawn back into action. For his sake, I hope he lives out the rest of his life peacefully on the Quiet Isle.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

In GRRM's world, people tend not to get what they want.

Sansa did.

A hero cut Janos Slynt's head.

[OldGimletEye]

Sansa did.

A hero cut Janos Slynt's head.

Yep, you are right. I like Sansa, so I was glad she got her wish.

[Dorian Martell]

Assuming that the gravedigger was Sandor, Sandor has found peace and redemption. His arc is over as he will be spending the next decade in quiet, silent contemplation and the next decade speaking one day out of seven. His story is over

[Prince of the North]

I'm under the impression that Robert Strong is going to be even more dangerous than the Mountain, but I could be wrong. Otherwise I would consider them about even.

You could be right. UnGregor may be even stronger than Gregor was but, just my opinion, I doubt he'll be any faster. I agree with you that Gregor and Sandor were about even when Gregor was alive. But I think Sandor has one rather unique characteristic that almost no one else in Westeros possesses: I think he proved when he saved Loras' life that he's not afraid of Gregor. That may help him if he ever confronts UnGregor (and I hope and believe he will).