Dany will NOT fight the Others

[Mithras]

As a general statement: you are just humiliating yourselves by reducing this theory into ants foreshadowing and making japes about it.

You misremember the scene which thus invalidates your point. It's not nitpicking to correct an erroneous statement.

My point has nothing to do whether those creatures were rats or rat-faced tiny people or hamsters etc. That is why it is nitpicking. See how Hodor's Dragon responded to my post because that post was related to my point.

Ok getting back to the ants. if the ants represent the others and Dany is knocking them off her and crushing them with her feet doesn't that mean that Dany will in fact be fighting and crushing the others? I would also add that if the ants are everywhere and climbing all over Dany it doesn't sound like Jon and Co. are doing to a good job fighting the ants and obviously need Dany's help to crush them.

If Dany woke up during the night and crushed the ants, I would agree with that interpretation. But she crushes them after the dawn, which means the danger will be dealt with shile she was "sleeping".

The coming of the Dawn is going to take place no thanks to any single person. That's kind of the point with ants, you know. They can't be eradicated and they certainly can't be dealt with by a single person. I had this little ant hill in my yard the other day. Poisoned the shit out of them. Those ants died, then a new ant hill popped up three feet away. Repeated process. Now my neighbor is complaining about ant hills. Reminds me of the Ghiscari empire. The Valyrians salted and burned that particular ant hill and they just popped up elsewhere. The Valyrian ants got burned, but they also popped up elsewhere. The Others were previously defeated sometime in history and if I have my facts straight, they've popped up again. Curiously, the keep popping up near hills.

No single person is going to be the only one who fights these ants and brings the Dawn. It will be a collection of forces. You'll recall that the Watch has been working to rally all these figureheads in order to get the men in their charge set up for the fight defend against the antZ. We already know that dragons are shitty in asymmetric warfare so this was never going to be the magical ingredient. However, this idea that Dany will have no involvement simply because she didn't murder all the ants of the hill is ridiculous. ffs, she very clearly took care of the ants that were an imminent threat by brushing them away from her body and crushing them under her feet.

I'm not making an argument about what songs will be sung for Dany, if any. It doesn't really matter in this argument because the premise is so faulty.

You are still reducing the entire theory into ants and anthills. I also wrote in the OP that Dany has no storywise investment to fight the Others and given her path in front of her (wars in Essos and the Second Dance of Dragons) two books are not enough to write a reasonable story how she can be informed and involved in the war against the Others without destroying Jon's and Bran's stories.

There has to be a unification among the men to deal with the Others. That is the only way to end the LN. However, we see that people cannot let go their differences aside so far and they will be less likely to do so considering the Second Dance. Therefore, I expect a single hero (Jon) to bind the people to this common cause, though he will surely have some assistants in his quest.

[Kyoshi]

I'm so glad this got revived. :lol: :lmao: Ants! Freaking ants! :lmao:

AntZ, I think people might take your theory more seriously if you completely removed the ants from it. I know I would.

[LordStoneheart]

As a general statement: you are just humiliating yourselves by reducing this theory into ants foreshadowing and making japes about it.

There is only one who has humiliated his or herself here, and ants are only part of that.

You are still reducing the entire theory into ants and anthills. I also wrote in the OP that Dany has no storywise investment to fight the Others and given her path in front of her (wars in Essos and the Second Dance of Dragons) two books are not enough to write a reasonable story how she can be informed and involved in the war against the Others without destroying Jon's and Bran's stories.

Guess who else had no story investment to fight the Others at some point in the story? Stannis. The number of shits he gave about the Wall were exactly zero before he had the letter read by Davos. Tyrion had no story investment in going to Meereen before book five, yet there he is outside Meereen.

Stories can and do change. That's kind of their thing. Narrative, plots, twists, development.

But forgive me, I didn't realize you are in charge of what goes on in the last two books, how reasonable they have to be (in your standards, no doubt), or who gets the glory of fighting the Others, but now that I know, I guess I can jump on board your theory.

[Mithras]

Guess who else had no story investment to fight the Others at some point in the story? Stannis. The number of shits he gave about the Wall were exactly zero before he had the letter read by Davos.

Completely wrong. Since from the beginning of ACoK, Stannis was presented as AAR who has to save the world from darkness. He tried his chance to take the KL and failed at that. With the intervention of Davos, he decided to save the Realm first and came to the Wall in ASoS. There is certainly an investment in Stannis to be a part of the war against the Others, though I think he will return to his quest to take the IT once he gains the North completely. You cannot compare Stannis to Dany, who has no information about the Others as of the end of ADwD. George confirmed that there will be a Second Dance of Dragons and even before that, Dany has to clear his way through Essos. It does not elave enough time for her to learn the real threat and come help after finishing her stories in the South. I give zero possibility that Dany will go help the NW while fAegon is strong in the South and/or Stannis is in North, even if she wants to.

Stories can and do change. That's kind of their thing. Narrative, plots, twists, development.

ASOIAF is not Lost. Stories cannot change just for the sake of changing in an absurd way.

[JRose1989]

Completely wrong. Since from the beginning of ACoK, Stannis was presented as AAR who has to save the world from darkness. He tried his chance to take the KL and failed at that. With the intervention of Davos, he decided to save the Realm first and came to the Wall in ASoS. There is certainly an investment in Stannis to be a part of the war against the Others, though I think he will return to his quest to take the IT once he gains the North completely. You cannot compare Stannis to Dany, who has no information about the Others as of the end of ADwD. George confirmed that there will be a Second Dance of Dragons and even before that, Dany has to clear his way through Essos. It does not elave enough time for her to learn the real threat and come help after finishing her stories in the South. I give zero possibility that Dany will go help the NW while fAegon is strong in the South and/or Stannis is in North, even if she wants to.

ASOIAF is not Lost. Stories cannot change just for the sake of changing in an absurd way.

Zero possibility? Gosh.

I'm glad you are so sure about this.

One thing that confuses me about your theory is why Dany's personality would change completely in one book because she gets to Westeros.

She has never been overly keen on the IT to begin with, indeed many people are frustrated with how little she cares about the thing seeing as how she is still in Essos and not KL...but you seem to think as soon as her foot touches the shore...BAM. IRON THRONEEEEE....... MUST HAVE IRON THRRROOONEEEE.

It doesn't make sense. Even if she sees Aegon vying for the control of KL, do you honestly think Dany would think 'Fuck the people who will die in the thousands because of this threat. I want me some spiky chair please.'

You keep going on about how she has no knowledge of the threat like it's evidence. What? Come on now, all it would take is a letter. Hell, a vision, she gets a few of those remember? And she IS all about her own destiny. Do you really think she would see all these Icy cold Others, look at her fire breathing dragons...and NOT connect the dots? Her own words are Fire and Blood for goodness sake.

By the by.....playing by your rules....what do you think her purpose is then?

We have journeyed with her from book one, from slave sold into marriage to ruler of Mereen and mother of dragons. In your theory, is her sole and only purpose, to bring said dragons to Jon, then to just...die... so HE can ride them? Thats what you believe her story arc will be? One of the strongest female characters in the series?

:worried:

[Mithras]

Zero possibility? Gosh.

I'm glad you are so sure about this.

One thing that confuses me about your theory is why Dany's personality would change completely in one book because she gets to Westeros.

She has never been overly keen on the IT to begin with, indeed many people are frustrated with how little she cares about the thing seeing as how she is still in Essos and not KL...but you seem to think as soon as her foot touches the shore...BAM. IRON THRONEEEEE....... MUST HAVE IRON THRRROOONEEEE.

Taking her father's throne back (and bringing dragon's justice to the Usurper and his dogs) was always Dany's priority. She had to delay her plans because of her actions in SB.

It doesn't make sense. Even if she sees Aegon vying for the control of KL, do you honestly think Dany would think 'Fuck the people who will die in the thousands because of this threat. I want me some spiky chair please.'

Definitely. It is not clear how serious Dany will take the news coming from the North. Marwyn perhaps could tell her but will she listen to the guy who once taught MMD? And Marwyn does not fit the profile whom Dany blindly trusts (elderly women of knowledge).

If you read my sentence carefully, I wrote two conditions: fAegon having a strong hold in the South and Stannis getting the support of the North. Under such conditions, I do not expect Dany to go North and spend her forces to defend the people who supports fAegon or Stannis.

You keep going on about how she has no knowledge of the threat like it's evidence. What? Come on now, all it would take is a letter. Hell, a vision, she gets a few of those remember? And she IS all about her own destiny. Do you really think she would see all these Icy cold Others, look at her fire breathing dragons...and NOT connect the dots? Her own words are Fire and Blood for goodness sake.

A letter? Aemon sent hundreds of letters and if not for Davos (and the ebdence of any alternative to Stannis), no one would come to help the Wall.

Visions and prophecies? She already thought about her distrust in visions and prophecies and Quaithe is not being helpful in this with her cryptic guidance.

Still, my point remains that she cannot be expected to leave the Dance and spend her forces to save the Realm. She will not want to spend her armies to secure the throne of fAegon in the South or save the people in the North who will most probably support Stannis. Do you think she can bring her forces to North and fight the Others side by side Stannis?

By the by.....playing by your rules....what do you think her purpose is then?

We have journeyed with her from book one, from slave sold into marriage to ruler of Mereen and mother of dragons. In your theory, is her sole and only purpose, to bring said dragons to Jon, then to just...die... so HE can ride them? Thats what you believe her story arc will be? One of the strongest female characters in the series?

Dany's purpose is to defeat fAegon and Stannis. Only after her bloody campaign people will finally be ready to realize the futility of game of thrones. I think Dany will win all her wars in Westeros but she will fail to win the hearts of the people. That will be partially because of the black propoganda of Team fAegon and partially due to her character change.

My theory is that Jon will claim Drogon while she is alive, so she does not have to die so that Jon can ride Drogon. However, the clues point that she will die from childbirth fever in the North.

:worried:

:cool4:

[MoIaF]

As a general statement: you are just humiliating yourselves by reducing this theory into ants foreshadowing and making japes about it.

My point has nothing to do whether those creatures were rats or rat-faced tiny people or hamsters etc. That is why it is nitpicking. See how Hodor's Dragon responded to my post because that post was related to my point

if you think that, then I don't think you understood what Hodor's Dragon was trying to say. You "example" was wrong because a) the context is completely different and has completely different connotations than Dany's scene with the ants and b ) the example you provided was just wrong. You were trying to make a point, you distorted a scene from the books to make that point and when you get called on it instead of apologizing you dig in your heals.

Move on. You misremembered a scene, you got called on it, admit your error and move on. It happens to everyone. It's sign of adulthood to admit error.

[Mithras]

You "example" was wrong because a) the context is completely different and has completely different connotations than Dany's scene with the ants

If you wrote this in the original post, then it would not be nitpicking. You only pointed that I misremembered the quote as if that was enough to disprove my point, which shows that you did not understand my point, at least in that reply. Because whether rats or hamsters, it makes no difference for my point.

[Nictarion]

If you wrote this in the original post, then it would not be nitpicking. You only pointed that I misremembered the quote as if that was enough to disprove my point, which shows that you did not understand my point, at least in that reply. Because whether rats or hamsters, it makes no difference for my point.

Move on. You misremembered a scene, you got called on it, admit your error and move on. It happens to everyone. It's sign of adulthood to admit error.

[PatrickStormborn]

Can we please retire the "there's not enough books left" argument? Dany was supposed to invade Westeros in the fourth book out of a total six, but he added an extra book and made changes to the structure of the series for various reasons. If Dany is supposed to fight the Others then she will, regardless of how many books it takes.

Oh, wait, I forgot - some posters here know the ending of the series already because of a few vague lines in the text that they interpret as foreshadowing. My mistake.

[JRose1989]

My theory is that Jon will claim Drogon while she is alive, so she does not have to die so that Jon can ride Drogon. However, the clues point that she will die from childbirth fever in the North.

:cool4:

[BearQueen87]

.ASOIAF is not Lost. Stories cannot change just for the sake of changing in an absurd way.

You're right. Stories cannot change just for the sake of changing in an absurd way.

And, to be perfectly honest, Dany not fighting the Others when there has been evidence that she will, as pointed out by many people in this thread...would be absurd. It's seem like wish fulfillment on your part because heaven forbid Dany do anything that would take away all the glory from Jon.

[butterbumps!]

As a general statement: you are just humiliating yourselves by reducing this theory into ants foreshadowing and making japes about it.

oh, if it means anything, my comments were for Dr P, because I'm growing concerned about her ant problem. She's been telling me about how the ants are so bad they're even stealing loaves of bread out of her pantry overnight (I inquired, and apparently the loaves are not disappearing due to sleepeating, so the logical conclusion can only be ant burglaring). She keeps refusing professional help, so you can understand my concern about this. I just sent her a Life Alert, because it's a short step from grand bread larceny to murder in the bathtub, and I just can't bear the thought of her being kidnapped and wightified by these villains. Or killed in the bathtub and unable to get up.

[MoIaF]

oh, if it means anything, my comments were for Dr P, because I'm growing concerned about her ant problem. She's been telling me about how the ants are so bad they're even stealing loaves of bread out of her pantry overnight (I inquired, and apparently the loaves are not disappearing due to sleepeating, so the logical conclusion can only be ant burglaring). She keeps refusing professional help, so you can understand my concern about this. I just sent her a Life Alert, because it's a short step from grand bread larceny to murder in the bathtub, and I just can't bear the thought of her being kidnapped and wightified by these villains. Or killed in the bathtub and unable to get up.

:lol:

Damn those ants! They are so dangerous, I can totally see now how the Others and the "ants" are just two peace in a pod. How can you even differentiate between them... ;)

[BearQueen87]

oh, if it means anything, my comments were for Dr P, because I'm growing concerned about her ant problem. She's been telling me about how the ants are so bad they're even stealing loaves of bread out of her pantry overnight (I inquired, and apparently the loaves are not disappearing due to sleepeating, so the logical conclusion can only be ant burglaring). She keeps refusing professional help, so you can understand my concern about this. I just sent her a Life Alert, because it's a short step from grand bread larceny to murder in the bathtub, and I just can't bear the thought of her being kidnapped and wightified by these villains. Or killed in the bathtub and unable to get up.

Whenever I read ASOIAF now, I'm going to be picturing the Others coming to steal bread in the night.

[MoIaF]

Whenever I read ASOIAF now, I'm going to be picturing the Others coming to steal bread in the night.

Maybe that's why they're invading Westeros, they're just hungry.

[BearQueen87]

Maybe that's why they're invading Westeros, they're just hungry.

I think you just solved the entire ASOIAF mystery! Ants steal food. It's in every cartoon when happy humans go on a picnic. The Lands of Always Winter are inhospitable, egro, NO FOOD.

Brilliant. We can all stop reading the books now.

[MoIaF]

I think you just solved the entire ASOIAF mystery! Ants steal food. It's in every cartoon when happy humans go on a picnic. The Lands of Always Winter are inhospitable, egro, NO FOOD.

Brilliant. We can all stop reading the books now.

Yes! Mystery solved, I win! :cool4:

[El Guapo]

If Dany woke up during the night and crushed the ants, I would agree with that interpretation. But she crushes them after the dawn, which means the danger will be dealt with shile she was "sleeping".

But the danger wasn't dealt with it. If dawn has come and the ants are everywhere that means that the ants have won the battle of the dawn and that Jon and the NW failed in their duty to protect the realm.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

Please don't hate ants. They are very intelligent and cute.