Season 5 Casting, News and Speculation V 5

[Annara Snow]

The extras do not go through Nina Gold I think.

We don't know that she's an extra. If we knew that, we'd know she can't be fakeArya. But she can also be a minor speaking role as well; they are often billed in descriptive terms.

The difference between an extra and a minor role is that the latter speaks some lines. If there's at least one line, even if it's one word. the person is billed as a guest star rather than an extra.

[zaphodbrx]

So in the books the timeline is: Cersei stops paying the Iron Bank - Iron Bank sends somebody to talk to Stannis - Kings Landing suffers economic problems - Stannis sends a representative to hire some mercenaries - Cersei sends a representative to talk to the Iron Bank (Arya murders somebody in the entourage) - (presumably Cersei's negotiations fail) - (presumably Stannis' mercenaries show up)

In the show the timeline probably is: Stannis goes to the Iron Bank and receives a relatively small loan - Cersei runs out of money to pay the bank and Kings Landing starts suffering economic problems - Cersei sends a representative to talk to the bank - negotiations fail (Arya murders somebody in the entourage) - the Bank gives Stannis the money to hire mercenaries - the mercenaries show up

I think the show's timeline is more plausible in several ways - Stannis reaching out to the bank for the loan vs Tycho wandering around in the north, Cersei's negotiations failing because she can't pay the bank rather than stubbornly won't. But both time lines have largely the same plot points, just in different orders, and they both arrive at the same situation at the beginning of book 6 / season 6.

In the show Stannis has already got his mercenaries, he doesn't much need the bank any more. And in the books Cersei sends no one, that is Ser Kevan ( and he has something to negotiate with, while the lannister gold mines in the show are empty ). Your scenarios have a lot of assumptions in them- such as Stannis's mercenaries showing up in the books which may not happen at all despite what happens in the show.

I'm sorry, the 'Iron bank storyline', like most of the show just doesn't make any sense. There is a big thread in the season 6 episode discussing why. Stannis/IB were ok scenes, but they weren't logical and it was just a fanfiction padding because otherwise he had nothing to do whole season. For the same reason I don't hold much hope for Mace/Tycho either. Let's be honest, it is just there to give Arya someone to kill.

[Guard of the Rainking]

In the show Stannis has already got his mercenaries, he doesn't much need the bank any more. And in the books Cersei sends no one, that is Ser Kevan ( and he has something to negotiate with, while the lannister gold mines in the show are empty ). Your scenarios have a lot of assumptions in them- such as Stannis's mercenaries showing up in the books which may not happen at all despite what happens in the show.

I'm sorry, the 'Iron bank storyline', like most of the show just doesn't make any sense. There is a big thread in the season 6 episode discussing why. Stannis/IB were ok scenes, but they weren't logical and it was just a fanfiction padding because otherwise he had nothing to do whole season. For the same reason I don't hold much hope for Mace/Tycho either. Let's be honest, it is just there to give Arya someone to kill.

Actually Bryan Cogman said that Stannis didn't get the full amount of the money that he wanted. It was more like: "Here's a token of our trust. If you show results will talk more." So Stannis might have just gotten Salla's ships so that he could transport his forces to the Wall. Stannis also had more troops in the show than in the books (show: 4 000 men books: 1 500), and to me the army he had in the finale looked about the size of 3 000 - 4 000 men. Also if I remember correctly all the soldiers had Baratheon gear.

[Konradsmith]

^This. It'll all be cleared up next season I'm sure. There's nothing wrong with leaving some things ambiguous in the meantime. GrrM does it plenty.

[Chebyshov]

Spoilery Ayra set pic from today: https://twitter.com/WatchersOTWall/status/512662231285112832/photo/1

[Guard of the Rainking]

Spoilery Ayra set pic from today: https://twitter.com/WatchersOTWall/status/512662231285112832/photo/1

Is it just me or has she grown taller?

[MR92]

But they're already filming these scenes and there haven't been Griff leaks.

have we seen any photos with tyrion and varys? filming together? cause I havent seen any and ive been pretty up to date with this...if thats the case, then there is very much hope for griffs to be in, because we havent seen anything to count them out...if tyrion IS going to be with varys for so long...since i havent seen any pics of them filming together, im gonna have hope...but if there are any pics of them together actually filming a scene, then we can speculate more

[MR92]

Is it just me or has she grown taller?

shes wearing boots...maisie is still tiny

[MR92]

you guys think they will do something to aryas face? shell film as is and then they can add stuff digitally? cause she said in an interview that we wont recognize her this year

[PatrickStormborn]

^This. It'll all be cleared up next season I'm sure. There's nothing wrong with leaving some things ambiguous in the meantime. GrrM does it plenty.

There's a difference between ambiguity and plot holes.

The fact that the Iron Bank gave Stannis any money is a huge plot hole. Why risk antagonising the current ruling family by supporting another claimant? Not to mention that Stannis isn't just "another claimant" - he's an absolutely hopeless claimant before he shows up at the Wall.

When the Iron Bank offer him support in the books, he's already assisted the Wall and still has possession of Storm's End. In other words, he's actually a somewhat viable candidate.

The scene only worked in the show because viewers aren't going to think heavily about it.

[mandy30]

More Maisie pics

http://watchersonthewall.com/filming-begins-sibenik-mark-gatiss-roger-ashton-griffiths-ian-beattie/

[The Onion Sleight]

Actually Bryan Cogman said that Stannis didn't get the full amount of the money that he wanted. It was more like: "Here's a token of our trust. If you show results will talk more." So Stannis might have just gotten Salla's ships so that he could transport his forces to the Wall. Stannis also had more troops in the show than in the books (show: 4 000 men books: 1 500), and to me the army he had in the finale looked about the size of 3 000 - 4 000 men. Also if I remember correctly all the soldiers had Baratheon gear.

I've posted this very often before, I'll post it again:

... Okay, just now, I really tried to calculate how many men there are, I took this picture: http://i.imgur.com/SboB1jo.jpg (charge from the right) and stopped the video at 0:34 [video of the cavalry scene from the finale] (for the charge from the left).

What I saw was (16 x 3) x (33 x 2) = 3168 or (16 x 4) x (33 x 2) = 4224.

I don't know how to explain this in military chargon, but there were 2 charges with 33 blocks, and each block had 3 or 4 lines with 16 soldiers. So, 3168-4224, the 4.000 men on Dragonstone would be fitting.

And the show-wiki says, he has now ~3.000 men at the Wall: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Castle_Black (I guess, some are probably still on DS as in the books)

So, NO mercenaries, he used the gold just for Salladhor Saan + his ships.

[cxvb]

The fact that the Iron Bank gave Stannis any money is a huge plot hole. Why risk antagonising the current ruling family by supporting another claimant?

Both the show and the book make it abundantly clear that the Iron Bank doesn't care about the opinions of it's debtors on another. Nor does any real world bank. You do get influence when you _invest_ with a bank, but if you owe them money you only get to pay and shut up. Are you grasping at straws to find fault?

Not to mention that Stannis isn't just "another claimant" - he's an absolutely hopeless claimant before he shows up at the Wall.

Morally, the wall certainly is a boost. But in terms of being able to take the Iron Throne by force Stannis is farther away than ever when he goes to the wall. He loses troops in the fight and is nowhere near King's Landing. Granted, Jon helps him gain some new soldiers afterwards, but nobody saw that comming.

When the Iron Bank offer him support in the books, he's already assisted the Wall and still has possession of Storm's End. In other words, he's actually a somewhat viable candidate.

Sucessfully relocating most of his troops to the end of the world doesn't make Stannis more viable.

[Chebyshov]

More Maisie pics

http://watchersonthewall.com/filming-begins-sibenik-mark-gatiss-roger-ashton-griffiths-ian-beattie/

Ah, so that's her Cat of the Canals outfit then: http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/1a.jpg

[Guard of the Rainking]

There's a difference between ambiguity and plot holes.

The fact that the Iron Bank gave Stannis any money is a huge plot hole. Why risk antagonising the current ruling family by supporting another claimant? Not to mention that Stannis isn't just "another claimant" - he's an absolutely hopeless claimant before he shows up at the Wall.

When the Iron Bank offer him support in the books, he's already assisted the Wall and still has possession of Storm's End. In other words, he's actually a somewhat viable candidate.

The scene only worked in the show because viewers aren't going to think heavily about it.

There are things that make it sensible for the IB to give Stannis a token of support in the show.

1. Show Stannis has a larger army and navy than book Stannis.

2. The Lannisters haven't paid the crown's debt yet and the bank is not sure if they will.

3. If the Lannisters refuse to pay the debt it's good to be on good terms with Stannis.

4. With modest support they give Stannis a better hope of surviving a little longer, so that they have their plan B claimant alive.

5. Iron Bank can keep the transaction between them and Stannis a secret.

[Game of Thrones Reference]

There's a difference between ambiguity and plot holes.

The fact that the Iron Bank gave Stannis any money is a huge plot hole. Why risk antagonising the current ruling family by supporting another claimant? Not to mention that Stannis isn't just "another claimant" - he's an absolutely hopeless claimant before he shows up at the Wall.

When the Iron Bank offer him support in the books, he's already assisted the Wall and still has possession of Storm's End. In other words, he's actually a somewhat viable candidate.

The scene only worked in the show because viewers aren't going to think heavily about it.

The Iron Bank is giving the Lannisters the extra push they need to pay off their debts, or else they'll give their full support to their enemy.

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

does anyone think that emma Maguire could be one of Mance's washer women?

[Game of Thrones Reference]

does anyone think that emma Maguire could be one of Mance's washer women?

The common theory is that she's fArya, but that's also possible.

[PatrickStormborn]

Both the show and the book make it abundantly clear that the Iron Bank doesn't care about the opinions of it's debtors on another. Nor does any real world bank. You do get influence when you _invest_ with a bank, but if you owe them money you only get to pay and shut up. Are you grasping at straws to find fault?

Morally, the wall certainly is a boost. But in terms of being able to take the Iron Throne by force Stannis is farther away than ever when he goes to the wall. He loses troops in the fight and is nowhere near King's Landing. Granted, Jon helps him gain some new soldiers afterwards, but nobody saw that comming.

Sucessfully relocating most of his troops to the end of the world doesn't make Stannis more viable.

I didn't say the Iron Bank CARED about the opinions of the current royal family. But why risk antagonising them? If the crown decides not to repay its debts, the Iron Bank will have to loan MORE money to another claimant just to get their money back. It doesn't make sense. And, just to clarify, I find the whole Iron bank subplot to be a bit of a stretch even in the books. It only works because Cersei openly declares that she will postpone payments to the bank. So don't accuse me of "grasping at straws to find fault". I'm criticising this subplot because I think it's illogical.

Yes, he's further away at the Wall, but it's a change of tactic and a sign that he's actually continuing to fight.

My point was that he's a viable candidate because he's actually doing something. But he also has possession of Storm's End, a castle which has never fallen before. In the show, all he has is Dragonstone.

There are things that make it sensible for the IB to give Stannis a token of support in the show.

1. Show Stannis has a larger army and navy than book Stannis.

2. The Lannisters haven't paid the crown's debt yet and the bank is not sure if they will.

3. If the Lannisters refuse to pay the debt it's good to be on good terms with Stannis.

4. With modest support they give Stannis a better hope of surviving a little longer, so that they have their plan B claimant alive.

5. Iron Bank can keep the transaction between them and Stannis a secret.

1. I'm pretty sure that's only because the Iron Bank gave him money to afford them...
2. Yes, they haven't paid them "yet". But repayment is clearly not an issue: the war looks to be over without Stannis continuing to fight. Why give money to Stannis to continue the war that is causing the crown to delay/hold back on its payments?! Where is the logic in that?
3. That makes no sense whatsoever. If the Lannisters refuse to pay the debt (which is far from likely from the perspective of the IB - they have no idea that the show-Lannisters are running out of gold), then the IB can turn to Stannis. He'd hardly reject them, would he?
4. But they don't need a plan B claimant. The Lannisters have given them no reason to suspect they will not repay their debts.
5. Stannis goes to Braavos and leaves with enough funds to pay an army. Hmm, I wonder what happened there...

Seriously. If the showrunners had debates like these, maybe the show would be a bit more logical. :laugh:

[Faceless Man Friday]

The common theory is that she's fArya, but that's also possible.

From her picture it looks like she resembles Maisie Williams and is also only slightly taller than Maisie at 5'3" with the same build and complexion. I do not think its a coincidence.