Season 5 Casting, News and Speculation V 5

[Faceless Man Friday]

Is it just me or has she grown taller?

Yes I think she recently said in an interview that she is now 5'1".

[Guard of the Rainking]

1. I'm pretty sure that's only because the Iron Bank gave him money to afford them...

Yes, they haven't paid them "yet". But repayment is clearly not an issue: the war looks to be over without Stannis continuing to fight. Why give money to Stannis to continue the war that is causing the crown to delay/hold back on its payments?! Where is the logic in that?

That makes no sense whatsoever. If the Lannisters refuse to pay the debt (which is far from likely from the perspective of the IB - they have no idea that the show-Lannisters are running out of gold), then the IB can turn to Stannis. He'd hardly reject them, would he?

But they don't need a plan B claimant. The Lannisters have given them no reason to suspect they will not repay their debts.

Stannis goes to Braavos and leaves with enough funds to pay an army. Hmm, I wonder what happened there...

Seriously. If the showrunners had debates like these, maybe the show would be a bit more logical. :laugh:

1. In the episode 6 meeting Stannis and Davos stated that they had 4 000 men and 32 ships. In the books Stannis has 1 500 men on Dragonstone and 200 men at Storm's End plus his only fleet is Salla's 30 ships.

2. From what I've gathered they didn't really give Stannis that much gold.

3. It's always good to be on better terms with your client. However I admit this is more of a secondary reason. A cherry on top if you will.

4. There's always a chance that they would, and as Davos said Tywin has given them no reason to suspect a refusal they have no idea what the next regent/Hand would do.

5. As me and other posters on this thread speculated Stannis probably only hired Salla who is a pirate with close ties with Davos and has already worked with Stannis. It's reasonable to suspect that Stannis could have won him over with some promises of wealth.

I totally agree that it needed more explaining.

[Deadwood]

does anyone think that emma Maguire could be one of Mance's washer women?

For me the best bet is a servant girl from House Bolton.

[jentario]

There's a difference between ambiguity and plot holes.

The fact that the Iron Bank gave Stannis any money is a huge plot hole. Why risk antagonising the current ruling family by supporting another claimant? Not to mention that Stannis isn't just "another claimant" - he's an absolutely hopeless claimant before he shows up at the Wall.

When the Iron Bank offer him support in the books, he's already assisted the Wall and still has possession of Storm's End. In other words, he's actually a somewhat viable candidate.

The scene only worked in the show because viewers aren't going to think heavily about it.

The Lannisters aren't paying up, and Davos was very convincing. The Iron Bank never opted to fully support Stannis- they have him an insignificant percentage of their immense stash of money as an investment. If Davos is right and Tywin dies (which he did) and King's Landing becomes a mess (which it will) then the Iron Bank already has friends on the outside (friends who are more likely to pay back the Throne's debt). The whole deal must have been relatively secretive (Varys didn't see it coming, or at least he thought best not to tell the Lannisters about it) so it's most likely that King's Landing is unaware of the Iron Bank's gift for Stannis. So it definitely makes some sense (given that the Iron Bank knew it would all go to shit when Tywin dies). If Stannis loses the war and ends up dead, they never really gave him too much money- but if King's Landing goes to shit then Stannis is the most viable contender (who will actually pay them back for the millions that the crown owns them) and an act of friendship now (rather than a simple "fuck off, you're no king" which is seemingly what they planned to tell Stannis at first) could be what brings them back their money. Sending Stannis away without a token of friendship, on the other hand, would make Stannis not give a shit about the crown's debt should he take the Throne.

In any case, keeping the Lannister's in control isn't helping the Iron Bank since they're clearly not paying back and they have a bottomless pit filled with money, so what's a few thousand gold pieces to them? And there was obviously more to the deal that we didn't see- a few promises, a few limitations, and long talks about what could and should be done. I have a feeling that Davos's little speech only got that conversation started. And I bet Davos explained their plan to free the North and win their support

EDIT: and if the meeting wasn't a tight-lipped secret, I'd say it makes just as much sense. That's the most effective threat the Iron Bank could ever give to the Lannisters. "Hey, see your only remaining enemy aside from Balon who no one cares about? We're paying him a bit. If you don't come here and lick our boots and throw our money back at us we'll continue to pay him until he wins the war. Because we have a shitload of money."

[jentario]

For me the best bet is a servant girl from House Bolton.

Yes. But hopefully fake Arya! I won't hold my breath, but she does look perfect. And like said before, "Winterfell worker" could be season 5's "Boy".

[Colonel Green]

I can sort of understand why people think they might try to hide the casting of Aegon and Connington, but I don't really see why that would be necessary for Fake Arya. If introduced, she'd be introduced as Fake Arya, and it's not like the audience would ever think she was Arya, as we know where the real Arya is. And Jeyne Poole is not previously a character in the show*, so it's not like her identity is a twist either.

* Yes, she was an extra in that scene at Winterfell, but that doesn't count in any meaningful way.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Ah, so that's her Cat of the Canals outfit then: http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/1a.jpg

That outfit for Cat is kind of throwing me a bit. That outfit doesn't look like the orphaned street urchin that Cat of the Canals is supposed to be. It looks more like the clothing of a higher standard of Braavois society. Granted, I'm happy to see Arya FINALLY get a costume change, but I get the feeling I may be liking her Temple Garb a bit better, provided they do that clothign as well.

[Annara Snow]

I can sort of understand why people think they might try to hide the casting of Aegon and Connington, but I don't really see why that would be necessary for Fake Arya. If introduced, she'd be introduced as Fake Arya, and it's not like the audience would ever think she was Arya, as we know where the real Arya is. And Jeyne Poole is not previously a character in the show*, so it's not like her identity is a twist either.

* Yes, she was an extra in that scene at Winterfell, but that doesn't count in any meaningful way.

Actually, she is a character that exists in the show canon, not because of the extra, but because she was mentioned by name by Sansa in season 1.

I'm not sure what you mean by hiding the casting. Whoever plays fake Arya would probably not be credited as " XY.as fake Arya" in their CV. She could be credited by her name. And if she's called, I don't know, Mary, it would not be spoilery to anyone; if it's Jeyne, then there could be, both to the Sullied and to those fans and news websites tend to Google and search Wiki and run news articles about what's likely to happen in season 5. For that matter, was there ever any reason to not call Iwan Rheon "Ramsay" if they were only trying to hide the info from the Unsullied? I don't think he was ever mentioned as anything other than "my bastard" or "the Bastard of Bolton" in season 2.

[Chebyshov]

That outfit for Cat is kind of throwing me a bit. That outfit doesn't look like the orphaned street urchin that Cat of the Canals is supposed to be. It looks more like the clothing of a higher standard of Braavois society. Granted, I'm happy to see Arya FINALLY get a costume change, but I get the feeling I may be liking her Temple Garb a bit better, provided they do that clothign as well.

Yeah it confused me too, but WHEELBARROW. So that's why I figured Cat? :dunno:

Really I'll take anything but her dirty jerkin.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I didn't say the Iron Bank CARED about the opinions of the current royal family. But why risk antagonising them? If the crown decides not to repay its debts, the Iron Bank will have to loan MORE money to another claimant just to get their money back. It doesn't make sense. And, just to clarify, I find the whole Iron bank subplot to be a bit of a stretch even in the books. It only works because Cersei openly declares that she will postpone payments to the bank. So don't accuse me of "grasping at straws to find fault". I'm criticising this subplot because I think it's illogical.

Yes, he's further away at the Wall, but it's a change of tactic and a sign that he's actually continuing to fight.

My point was that he's a viable candidate because he's actually doing something. But he also has possession of Storm's End, a castle which has never fallen before. In the show, all he has is Dragonstone.

1. I'm pretty sure that's only because the Iron Bank gave him money to afford them...

Yes, they haven't paid them "yet". But repayment is clearly not an issue: the war looks to be over without Stannis continuing to fight. Why give money to Stannis to continue the war that is causing the crown to delay/hold back on its payments?! Where is the logic in that?

That makes no sense whatsoever. If the Lannisters refuse to pay the debt (which is far from likely from the perspective of the IB - they have no idea that the show-Lannisters are running out of gold), then the IB can turn to Stannis. He'd hardly reject them, would he?

But they don't need a plan B claimant. The Lannisters have given them no reason to suspect they will not repay their debts.

Stannis goes to Braavos and leaves with enough funds to pay an army. Hmm, I wonder what happened there...

Seriously. If the showrunners had debates like these, maybe the show would be a bit more logical. :laugh:

That's my entire issue when it comes to the show, just give me some consistant logic. It's not necessarily a matter of making changes or dropping and condensing material for the sake of adaption and differences in page and screen, for me it's the desire to just have things make some friggin' sense. I'm sorry, but the show's version of the IB footing some of Stannis' bills before Tywin's death, before Cersei's refusals, and just cause......Davos waves his maimed hand around.......do not make sense.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Yeah it confused me too, but WHEELBARROW. So that's why I figured Cat? :dunno:

Really I'll take anything but her dirty jerkin.

Yeah, the wheelbarrow does seem to say Cat, I suppose....she could be Mercy making use of a spare wheelbarrow, time will tell. It is a bit odd. Actually, Arya doing the local hairstyle seems even stranger, but I am just happy to see her.

ETA: Wheelbarrow or wheel barrel?

[Ingelheim]

My main problem with the IB issue is that Stannis already had 4,000 men in the show...nearly three times more than in the books. Some really nerds friends of mine did a calculation and they say Stannis had around that number in 4x10, when he crushes Mance's army.

So now, if Stannis gets the Mountain Clans...he'd have an army absurdly large.

[Game of Thrones Reference]

That's my entire issue when it comes to the show, just give me some consistant logic. It's not necessarily a matter of making changes or dropping and condensing material for the sake of adaption and differences in page and screen, for me it's the desire to just have things make some friggin' sense. I'm sorry, but the show's version of the IB footing some of Stannis' bills before Tywin's death, before Cersei's refusals, and just cause......Davos waves his maimed hand around.......do not make sense.

The way I saw it was the Iron Bank were trying to incentivize the Lannisters into paying back the loan by threatening to give Stannis their full support if they refuse or delay.

[Cake]

My main problem with the IB issue is that Stannis already had 4,000 men in the show...nearly three times more than in the books. Some really nerds friends of mine did a calculation and they say Stannis had around that number in 4x10, when he crushes Mance's army.

So now, if Stannis gets the Mountain Clans...he'd have an army absurdly large.

I think that the show has scaled the sizes of all the armies up, but it would still be hard to feed so many I guess

[Ingelheim]

I think that the show has scaled the sizes of all the armies up, but it would still be hard to feed so many I guess

Not for the North. Robb still had 20,000 men.

[cxvb]

So now, if Stannis gets the Mountain Clans...he'd have an army absurdly large.

You repeatedly pointed out how GRRM increased armies post ASOS in other threads. So it strikes me as odd to complain about it in the show, because that is by its nature less concerned with details and likely to handwave the numbers to whatever they need to be. Anyone who really gets curious about the numbers on the show can read the books (and is then in for a surprise).

Plus, we don't know whether he'll get the mountain clans in the show. They might skip the introduction of yet another group of people and e.g. have wildlings fight for Stannis for food. If he gets the mountain clans, we don't know whether they'll be the same numbers on the show. If they are not, there's no problem.

In short: You know nothing, but make dire predictions. It's on par with: If Donald Duck made a cameo, that'd be ridiculous.

[The Onion Sleight]

I think that the show has scaled the sizes of all the armies up, but it would still be hard to feed so many I guess

Not for the North. Robb still had 20,000 men.

On the other hand, there are now only ca. 50 Crows left, the NW members / Stannis' men / Wildlings ratio at the Wall is pretty extreme on the show.

Jon uses men of Stannis in the books, too, doesn't he? They have this dialogue, where Jon asks Stannis for men, Stan laughs, saying they are lords and knights and would never take the black, but Jon says he only wants them to obey his oders, they can wear whatever colour they want...

I hope, Stannis and Jon will also man the other castles at the Wall next season.

[Deadwood]

Not for the North. Robb still had 20,000 men.

Renly had the books 100,000 too.

Stannis' 4,000 might be important, it might not.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

The way I saw it was the Iron Bank were trying to incentivize the Lannisters into paying back the loan by threatening to give Stannis their full support if they refuse or delay.

What, am I supposed to believe the IB carbon copied the Lannisters on the loan agreement? Just for purposes of sense and logic, I'm going to have to go with: NO, as we, and probably the IB themselves, know how well a man like Tywin handles such things. The IB, in show, basically said to Stannis's face that he was really a nobody, but they were so impressed with his second in charge's loyalty......they gave him a 'taste,' LOL The other problem with the IB doing the loan now was that not only was Tywin alive and payments being made, technically...Stannis was not the only other option......since the show has left Balon alive, too. A Balon with some pieces of the North, anyway and quite the fleet.

Adding it all up is what makes it less and less plausible, to me, anyway. Still, I'm glad we did get some Saan, I'm just wondering, though, if the IB bought numbers at Stannis' disposal will make a mess of the idea of him finding allies in the North, ie......the Mountain Clans.

[igrewupinKL]

I think the mountain clans will be skipped, there isn't really enough time for it. would make sense for it to be off screen (except for Jon telling Stannis what to do) or for them to be replaced by wildlings who 'bend the knee' in the beginning just to get out of the cold.