Season 5 Casting, News and Speculation V 5

[The Drunkard]

That's too much of a disproportionately high number, and it still leaves the issue of the Tyrells having the most powerful army while also, apparently, having the third most powerful army.

[PatrickStormborn]

Your big assumption is that nobody knows that the Lannisters are out of gold. When Tywin told Cersei, a common response was "how could the Lannisters have run out of gold in secret? Wouldn't somebody have noticed that they stopped mining? The show doesn't think these things through."

But the clever people in the show are acting like they know the Lannisters are short on gold. Olenna stumped up for the wedding without surprise or protest. Olenna nagged Tywin about the Iron Bank. Littlefinger abandoned the Lannisters while they were apparently at the apex of their power. The Iron Bank actually loans money to Stannis. And people look at these events and say "the show doesn't think these things through."

The Iron Bank, Littlefinger, Varys, Olenna, and Doran are the people who we would expect to know if the Lannister mines were no longer active. And these players are all abandoning the Lannisters / challenging Lannister power / nagging Tywin about debts. The show is telling a story that makes sense if you put the show pieces together, rather than comparing each piece individually to the books.

I wouldn't be surprised if you just put more thought into this scenario than the showrunners did. They can't even keep armies the same size across seasons, and they retconned the amount of debt the crown had. In season 1 it was 6 million, with 3 million owed to the Lannisters; in season 3, Tyrion claims they owe "tens of millions" to the Iron Bank.

But even if the Iron Bank knew about the Lannisters running out of gold, it goes two ways: they either look for a new candidate (unlikely - the Lannisters still have the support of the Tyrells, and through King's Landing they have control over taxes), or they commit their support to the ruling dynasty, knowing that they are more likely to be repaid if the war comes to an end.

[igrewupinKL]

Nah Balon has to die.

Euron is definitely in. Why waste time with Asha/Yara or Balon after season 2 if they were going to cut the main Greyjoy storyline? Euron, Victarion and Aeron are the only ones who make the Greyjoy's remotely interesting in AFFC.

[Chebyshov]

She's staring at Trant, right? (noooo... Not Meryn...! I like him!)

And all of Braavos costumes and places remind me of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfJVeecJdrs

OMG I am crying from that link :lol: . Maybe Ayra poses as Cat who then gets the role of Mercy. It's like a FM inception...

(Also, loving the new avatar)

[jentario]

I'm guessing the actual Mercy is cut, or perhaps Cat of the Canals will be called Mercy instead.

Do you guys think there'll be more Braavos filming in Sibenik? I really hope there will. We need to see that Sam/Arya meeting! Also, I really want to believe that Sam going to Oldtown is an extremely important plot point but if the show can just skip it and deliver the same developments more quickly... That's a sign that most of what happens there isn't that important. We'll see.

[igrewupinKL]

I'm guessing the actual Mercy is cut, or perhaps Cat of the Canals will be called Mercy instead.

My guess is that 'mercy' as a chapter itself may be used in early season 6. I think Arya's first 'assignment' or target in the books (the random braavosi loan banker) will be replaced by mace tyrell or meryn trant

[jentario]

I wouldn't be surprised if you just put more thought into this scenario than the showrunners did. They can't even keep armies the same size across seasons, and they retconned the amount of debt the crown had. In season 1 it was 6 million, with 3 million owed to the Lannisters; in season 3, Tyrion claims they owe "tens of millions" to the Iron Bank.

But even if the Iron Bank knew about the Lannisters running out of gold, it goes two ways: they either look for a new candidate (unlikely - the Lannisters still have the support of the Tyrells, and through King's Landing they have control over taxes), or they commit their support to the ruling dynasty, knowing that they are more likely to be repaid if the war comes to an end.

I think the Iron Bank funding Stannis (minimally) is a no-risk potential-reward scenario. They know that for whatever reason the Lannisters and the Tyrells aren't paying up, even after the war is all but done (the crown only really needs to do some post war clean up to defeat Stannis and the Boltobs are taking care of the Greyjoys for them while the Freys are taking care of the Riverlands).

Meanwhile, the crown is spending god knows how much money on the wedding (Tyrell money, mind you). No matter what they're doing or why they're doing it, it's clear to the Iron Bank that the Lannisters don't plan to pay up in the near future.

And then Stannis comes in, with proof and promise that he is a just man that will pay back the debt should he win the Throne. Without their funding, he can't win. With their funding, he can take it all. Instead, they go to the middle ground and give him a small (in relation to their vaults) donation and send him on his journey. This way, they get on his good side and when the Lannisters inevitably figure out about it (probably some time in season 5, and sending Mace to treat with them will be Cersei's reaction to it) they'll take it as a pretty clear threat. Pay up, or we'll make your most prominent enemy a rich man.

If their funding of Stannis pans out well (which it did, after his victory at the Wall and his incoming alliances with the Northern lords) then they actually have a legitimate contender to back (which they wouldn't have had if they let Stannis rot in Dragonstone). If the Lannisters pay up, then their threat worked and they have their money back- job well done.

We as viewers know that the Lannisters don't exactly have the money to repay the Iron Bank in the show since their gold mines have been running dry. That means that the Lannisters are fucked in this regard- and sending Mace probably won't help much if at all. My guess is that Tycho will understand at that meet up that the Lannisters simply can't and won't pay them back, which will be the final nail in the coffin (as opposed to Cersei telling them to fuck off till the war is over).

As of episode 9 or 10, the Iron Bank will decide to go all in with Stannis. I guess Tycho traveling North could be delayed to early in season 6 (maybe even after the big battle). But that depends on a bunch of TWOW stuff.

[jentario]

My guess is that 'mercy' as a chapter itself may be used in early season 6. I think Arya's first 'assignment' or target in the books (the random braavosi loan banker) will be replaced by mace tyrell or meryn trant

No, no. That's not how the Faceless Men work. They can't assassinate people they know, and AI don't think their leaders would happily cause an international incident. Arya killing Trant (and it WILL be Trant, 100%) is something she does of her own accord- just like when she kills Dareon as Cat of the Canals and Raff as Mercy. It won't be an assignment.

The question is, will she get her first assignment this season or will that be delayed or entirely skipped? Arya is still Cat at the end of the season (episode 9 at the earliest) so unless she changes her face and executes her contract in the finale after the Mercy events (which might actually be a really cool way to send her off) or she gets in and out of the Cat of the Canals character while killing her first contract earlier (probably around episode 7 or 8) that scene won't be in season 5. Which would be a shame IMO.

We do know that they're casting a thin man that knows about money, so that sounds like the ship insurance dude Arya assassinates as the Ugly Girl. Fingers crossed for some Arya face change action!

[igrewupinKL]

No, no. That's not how the Faceless Men work. They can't assassinate people they know, and AI don't think their leaders would happily cause an international incident. Arya killing Trant (and it WILL be Trant, 100%) is something she does of her own accord- just like when she kills Dareon as Cat of the Canals and Raff as Mercy. It won't be an assignment.

The question is, will she get her first assignment this season or will that be delayed or entirely skipped? Arya is still Cat at the end of the season (episode 9 at the earliest) so unless she changes her face and executes her contract in the finale after the Mercy events (which might actually be a really cool way to send her off) or she gets in and out of the Cat of the Canals character while killing her first contract earlier (probably around episode 7 or 8) that scene won't be in season 5. Which would be a shame IMO.

We do know that they're casting a thin man that knows about money, so that sounds like the ship insurance dude Arya assassinates as the Ugly Girl. Fingers crossed for some Arya face change action!

Yeh i didn't think of that. Okay then up till episode 7 or 8 Arya learns to Lie, learns Braavosi, becomes cat of the canals and does her duties in the temple and reports to the kindly man with her '3 things a day'. Somewhere around episode 5 or 6 Arya has to get rid of her possessions (clothes in river and not letting go of needle) and truly embrace the FM 'i am no one'.

Episode 7 arya will learn of her first assignment, kill the 'tall thin banker' by episode 8. Episode 9 or 10 she will spot meryn trant and use the tactics she used in Mercy to kill him. i think the season will end with arya 'going blind'.

If Sam is sent to oldtown around episode 4 or 5 arya can bump into him around episode 7. I don't they will include her killing Dareon (this is unless she doesn't kill Meryn Trant, which i don't see happening).

[FreeParking]

Baelish said that the Starks and the Lannisters had the largest armies in the kingdoms in season 2, and Olenna said that they had supported the Lannisters in the war with about 16 000 men in season 3.

What scene was this in season two with Baelish?

[Guard of the Rainking]

What scene was this in season two with Baelish?

The one in Harrenhal with Tywin, Arya and Baelish.

[ADB]

I wouldn't be surprised if you just put more thought into this scenario than the showrunners did. They can't even keep armies the same size across seasons, and they retconned the amount of debt the crown had. In season 1 it was 6 million, with 3 million owed to the Lannisters; in season 3, Tyrion claims they owe "tens of millions" to the Iron Bank.

Tyrion also said right before that that Littlefinger had been bullshitting people for years about how he was funding the crown's activities.

As far as who has the largest army, remember that Renly's 100,000 was virtually all the armies of both the Reach and the Stormlands, as opposed to just the army of the Tyrell family alone.

[Janicia]

I wouldn't be surprised if you just put more thought into this scenario than the showrunners did. They can't even keep armies the same size across seasons, and they retconned the amount of debt the crown had. In season 1 it was 6 million, with 3 million owed to the Lannisters; in season 3, Tyrion claims they owe "tens of millions" to the Iron Bank.

But even if the Iron Bank knew about the Lannisters running out of gold, it goes two ways: they either look for a new candidate (unlikely - the Lannisters still have the support of the Tyrells, and through King's Landing they have control over taxes), or they commit their support to the ruling dynasty, knowing that they are more likely to be repaid if the war comes to an end.

This is a show with good production values, that puts so much thought into costumes and props and casting and has appropriate house banners on extra's costumes and films all over the place so that each area has the right look. This is a production team that has lived the show year-round for 5 years. You honestly think they're careless with what they put in those scripts? You think that the writers are like "eh I just can't remember what numbers we used last year and I'm feeling too lazy to look it up"?

Sometimes scenes don't work, sometimes decisions are misguided, sometimes things get mangled somewhere in the process or have to be changed last minute for some reason - there are certainly clumsy spots. But this show is not made carelessly.

The 6 million number presumably comes from Littlefinger, who was creative in his accounting and not known for scrupulous honesty. And the tens of millions figure comes from an exasperated Tyrion, looking at the books after an expensive war while trying to figure out what the heck Littlefinger did and who is making a point of being imprecise about his numbers. It would make no sense for those numbers to be the same.

[FreeParking]

I wouldn't be surprised if you just put more thought into this scenario than the showrunners did. They can't even keep armies the same size across seasons, and they retconned the amount of debt the crown had. In season 1 it was 6 million, with 3 million owed to the Lannisters; in season 3, Tyrion claims they owe "tens of millions" to the Iron Bank.

The debt in season one was before the war. As Roose reminds us in season three "Wars cost money." It is no surprise that the debt has ballooned by then.

[HairGrowsBack]

https://i.imgur.com/EnArCXH.jpgo don't know whether it's been posted yet

[BearQueen87]

https://i.imgur.com/EnArCXH.jpgoDon't know whether it's been posted yet

AHH! That's exciting! Is this...Volantis?

[Arkash]

I like that Peter's hair seem to be blonde again.

[Manderstark]

https://i.imgur.com/EnArCXH.jpgo don't know whether it's been posted yet

Could be the outdoor of the brothel?

[Colonel Green]

This is a show with good production values, that puts so much thought into costumes and props and casting and has appropriate house banners on extra's costumes and films all over the place so that each area has the right look. This is a production team that has lived the show year-round for 5 years. You honestly think they're careless with what they put in those scripts? You think that the writers are like "eh I just can't remember what numbers we used last year and I'm feeling too lazy to look .

The record is pretty clear that the show sucks with numbers, army size, etc. There are two different Northern armies (Rodrik's and Lord Karstark's) that just vanished into thin air, and the latter was supposedly half the Northern army. The Tyrell army shrank to a fraction of its former size in Season 3.

And I don't think this is because they can't be bothered to look it up, it's because they don't care about continuity in this regard when it gets in the way of whatever they're writing now, or they just don't keep track of the implications of their deviations from the text (both of the Northern examples).

[Colonel Green]

Edit: Stupid internet connection.