The Lannisters aren't running out of gold

[Veltigar]

Probably the stupidest change the show has made. A big fuck you to all people with common sense. I mean how dumb to the writers think the viewers are?

[UtherSnow]

Place this vision of mining into context. It's how scarce gold (or whatever else is mined) is that makes it valuable. Don't be pulled into thinking it's an industrialised business. Also, it was also a very dangerous operation, and that pushes the value of whatever's mined higher.

I think there is something else being overlooked. For this, you'll have to read more about Westerosi History. What I've not come across is finding a reference which reverses what took place. This doesn't only concern Lannisters, by the way.

[Red Wedding Cake]

Some violent reactions here. None of the Lannisters have been to Casterly Rock for some time and never touch on how the gold mines are actually doing. Tywin was the one to run things, and if he kept the gold mine production a secret it could be an unfortunate discovery for the Lannisters. Perceived power can be just as strong as actual power, they could be stringing along on reputation alone. The Lannisters could be the Merryl-Lynch of Westeros, or a medieval allegory of the 1980's US stock market crash. GRRM has already shown Littlefinger to run a fortune on futures and unfulfilled promises. The Iron Bank of Braavos is becoming important for a reason, and (spoiler)

The Queen sent an envoy to the Iron Bank for a reason in Mercy's TWOW chapter

[White Ravens]

HBO Lannisters running out of gold =/= Book Lanninsters running out of gold.

[Minstral]

Some violent reactions here. None of the Lannisters have been to Casterly Rock for some time and never touch on how the gold mines are actually doing. Tywin was the one to run things, and if he kept the gold mine production a secret it could be an unfortunate discovery for the Lannisters. Perceived power can be just as strong as actual power, they could be stringing along on reputation alone. The Lannisters could be the Merryl-Lynch of Westeros, or a medieval allegory of the 1980's US stock market crash. GRRM has already shown Littlefinger to run a fortune on futures and unfulfilled promises. The Iron Bank of Braavos is becoming important for a reason, and (spoiler)

The Queen sent an envoy to the Iron Bank for a reason in Mercy's TWOW chapter

Kevan, who went back to the Rock after his spat with Cersei and had the time to look over the Lannister wealth, makes a mention that he would need to pay the crown's debts with Lannister gold if they couldn't find a new line of credit or income. That is more indicative that the Lannisters have their traditional wealth to fall back on, but that the finances of the crown are in utter disarray.

[sifth]

They'll only be out of gold if Tyrion becomes Lord of CR

Tommon and Cercie need to die before that can happen.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Some violent reactions here. None of the Lannisters have been to Casterly Rock for some time and never touch on how the gold mines are actually doing. Tywin was the one to run things, and if he kept the gold mine production a secret it could be an unfortunate discovery for the Lannisters. Perceived power can be just as strong as actual power, they could be stringing along on reputation alone. The Lannisters could be the Merryl-Lynch of Westeros, or a medieval allegory of the 1980's US stock market crash. GRRM has already shown Littlefinger to run a fortune on futures and unfulfilled promises. The Iron Bank of Braavos is becoming important for a reason, and (spoiler)

The Queen sent an envoy to the Iron Bank for a reason in Mercy's TWOW chapter

Kevan and Daven have recently been to CL. Stafford was raising a force out of Lannisport and in constant contact with Tywin. Damion Lannister is castellan of CR, and Cersei was in contact enough to name him.

If the mines had run dry, it would be known, especially after Tywin died.

[Red Wedding Cake]

Kevan and Daven have recently been to CL. Stafford was raising a force out of Lannisport and in constant contact with Tywin. Damion Lannister is castellan of CR, and Cersei was in contact enough to name him.

If the mines had run dry, it would be known, especially after Tywin died.

When were Kevan and Daven last in Casterly Rock? Not since Tywin's death at least, as they've been too busy ending sieges and acting as regent. Before Tywin's death would be moot, since the conspiracy rests on Tywin exhausting the mines and keeping it secret for family reputation, building family reputation being a core part of Tywin's character. Damion Lannister is castellan of Casterly Rock as named by Cersei, but we haven't really heard much from or about him. In fact, we haven't heard much about Casterly Rock, which is what drives this theory in the first place.

[FreeParking]

Probably the stupidest change the show has made. A big fuck you to all people with common sense. I mean how dumb to the writers think the viewers are?

I imagine as dumb as the man writes a character who thinks a man who was kidnapped by a high lord's lady because she suspected him off a conspiracy to kill her son because of the word of a shifty person and suffered in a slanted, open prison cell and survived a trial by combat by shear luck and survived a walk through a forest of potential barbarians and became Hand of the King and made it to the capital yet never questioned the man who caused him to be arrested because of financial problems. That's the reasoning. A reason that doesn't matter until book four, magically. I imagine they think you are at least as dumb as GRRM, though you will jump through hoops to justify his shitty storytelling.

[Veltigar]

I imagine as dumb as the man writes a character who thinks a man who was kidnapped by a high lord's lady because she suspected him off a conspiracy to kill her son because of the word of a shifty person and suffered in a slanted, open prison cell and survived a trial by combat by shear luck and survived a walk through a forest of potential barbarians and became Hand of the King and made it to the capital yet never questioned the man who caused him to be arrested because of financial problems. That's the reasoning. A reason that doesn't matter until book four, magically. I imagine they think you are at least as dumb as GRRM, though you will jump through hoops to justify his shitty storytelling.

Oh, look what a nice ad hominem combined with a strawman. You must have practised extra long for that. Keep up the good work sport, though you're probably in the wrong place. After all, trolls should lurk under bridges (didn't you read the memo).

[MyLittleFinger]

Probably the stupidest change the show has made. A big fuck you to all people with common sense. I mean how dumb to the writers think the viewers are?

It's up there with the empty vault in Qarth...ugg, that was childish as fuck.

Oh wow, he didn't have any money at all! DUN DUN DUUUUUUUH!

[Dragon in the North]

Oh, look what a nice ad hominem combined with a strawman. You must have practised extra long for that. Keep up the good work sport, though you're probably in the wrong place. After all, trolls should lurk under bridges (didn't you read the memo).

This may be a stupid question, but what's a strawman? I've seen the term thrown around a lot on this thread. Oh, and the stupidest change for me was that they made the Karstarks half of Robb's army. I mean, I understand why they did it, to make his situation more desperate, but it's the one inconsistency that I can't get over.

[Universal Sword Donor]

When were Kevan and Daven last in Casterly Rock? Not since Tywin's death at least, as they've been too busy ending sieges and acting as regent. Before Tywin's death would be moot, since the conspiracy rests on Tywin exhausting the mines and keeping it secret for family reputation, building family reputation being a core part of Tywin's character. Damion Lannister is castellan of Casterly Rock as named by Cersei, but we haven't really heard much from or about him. In fact, we haven't heard much about Casterly Rock, which is what drives this theory in the first place.

No, Kevan was at CR at the end of AFFC. Pycelle sends a raven to CR naming Kevan the Regent.

Even if he hadn't we're looking at what, 6 months at the most? That's with constant ravens going back and forth between between KL and CR. Cersei or Kevan would definitely know if they were running empty.

Either way, it's a debunked theory. Per the Westerlands reading, we know that the mines aren't running dry.

"(unlike what’s been said in the TV show) The mines haven’t emptied, and are considered the best in the world. "

http://www.historyofwesteros.com/concarolinas-westerlands-reading/

[new djinn]

How can the Iron Islands still be mined for iron after this long? How can the North ecology(lizard-lions, farm animals) survive a multi-year winter? How can the Riverlands not have a city with all those crops and rivers? How can the Arbor be that rich and not have a city of their own? Why do the hilltribes still exist? How is it that the Starks never built a road in the North(same goes to the Durrendons)? Why aren't any large bridges in Westeros other then Twins and Bitterbridge(and no canals)? So close to Myr, Lys and Tyrosh, and yet no cities in the Stormlands?

[Veltigar]

This may be a stupid question, but what's a strawman? I've seen the term thrown around a lot on this thread.

A strawman is an informal logical fallacy. I'll just quote the definition from wikipedia:

A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument. To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition

To give a practical example of this definition just read the post to which I responded and then read my first post. The ignoramus who committed the fallacy goes on a long rant about a totally unrelated issue, as if I claimed that GRRM was in some way perfect (which he isn't btw, the LF thing is a total plothole. One that, if memory serves, has been kept by the show), instead of actually trying to refute the claim that I actually made.

Namely, the fact that the Lannister gold mines running dry on the show is a completely idiotic development. Not that it's feasible to refute that of course, with such a large chunck of Westerland economy running on the gold trade, it is impossible to keep such a development a secret for three whole years.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Unless it had some (magical) explanation... I suppose it would be very silly for all of the mines to dry up at the same time, in the course of one generation. Supposedly this mines have been running for some generations and they're ok now.

I don't really know anything about medieval mining, but I suppose gold mines drying up would take a long time, and it wouldn't happen all at once. It would probably make each generation a little poorer and the impact for the House/region would be most felt in the long run.

[Dragon in the North]

A strawman is an informal logical fallacy. I'll just quote the definition from wikipedia:

To give a practical example of this definition just read the post to which I responded and then read my first post. The ignoramus who committed the fallacy goes on a long rant about a totally unrelated issue, as if I claimed that GRRM was in some way perfect (which he isn't btw, the LF thing is a total plothole. One that, if memory serves, has been kept by the show), instead of actually trying to refute the claim that I actually made.

Namely, the fact that the Lannister gold mines running dry on the show is a completely idiotic development. Not that it's feasible to refute that of course, with such a large chunck of Westerland economy running on the gold trade, it is impossible to keep such a development a secret for three whole years.

Thank you for the clarification. As for the gold shortage, I assume that will be brought up at some point this season, especially with Cercei dealing with the Iron Bank. I am skeptical, but I'll keep an open mind.

[Red Wedding Cake]

No, Kevan was at CR at the end of AFFC. Pycelle sends a raven to CR naming Kevan the Regent.

Even if he hadn't we're looking at what, 6 months at the most? That's with constant ravens going back and forth between between KL and CR. Cersei or Kevan would definitely know if they were running empty.

Either way, it's a debunked theory. Per the Westerlands reading, we know that the mines aren't running dry.

"(unlike what’s been said in the TV show) The mines haven’t emptied, and are considered the best in the world. "

http://www.historyofwesteros.com/concarolinas-westerlands-reading/

I do trust Aziz and Ashaya's reporting. good enough for me.

(unlike what’s been said in the TV show) The mines haven’t emptied, and are considered the best in the world. Even in Asshai, they ask about Casterly Rock, which they believe to be a ‘palace of gold’.

[Eat My Steel]

The Queen sent an envoy to the Iron Bank for a reason in Mercy's TWOW chapter

Or was that Kevan's doing before he was offed by Varys?

[Warrewal Halfaxe]

I wonder if they sometimes find other, yet undiscovered/unknown metals, throw them away and continue digging for gold