Calm down, people

[The Second To Last Dragon]

How fucking dare anyone out there make fun of Dany after all she has been through.

She lost her aunt, she went through a divorce. She had two fuckin kids.

Her husband turned out to be a user, a cheater, and now she's going through a custody battle. All you people care about is.. readers and making money off of her.

[Veltigar]

I manage to like a lot of those characters whose fans seem to oppose each other.

I like Stannis and Daenerys, Catelyn and Jaime, Sansa and Littlefinger etc

:o Since when do Jaime and Catelyn fans hate each other?

[BastardlyRock]

:o Since when do Jaime and Catelyn fans hate each other?

Maybe he's talking about LordStoneheart and myself...

:box: :spank: ;)

[Hodor the Articulate]

I wouldn't be surprised if you are talking about a couple of my posts in the "Dany . . . idealistic" thread. I raged a bit at the crowd of folks who snark so harshly and with so much vitriol on Dany.

I stand by what I said. I do not believe that "a pox on both your houses" is an accurate or appropriate way of describing what's going on. Of course, every argument in a popular forum is likely to draw a few ridiculous and overblown arguments on both sides, but overall? There is not, absolutely not an equal amount of ridiculous argumentation and childish insult-throwing on both sides of the argument. One side is far more offensive than the other. Of course you are correct that Dany is written as a complex character with good and bad aspects, and there are many absolutely justifiable criticisms to be made of her, but I also think that snarking harsly on her and throwing piles of childish insults on top is a "fad" on this forum. I think these folks are perverting the author's intention to create her as a primarily heroic character who is rendered human by human failings and human mistakes.

I've been playing the diplomat regarding this, trying to make a difference, trying to really talk to people about it, for the few months I've been on this forum. I've seen little in the way of results. At least for today, I can feel my patience with the diplomatic approach wearing thin. If I feel that what I said in the above paragraph is true - and I do feel that - then I have at least as much right to express myself about this experience as others do to call Dany an insane, child-torturing slut. I'm sick of lying down and taking it. I don't want to get banned from the forum, and I don't want to get into infantile back-and-forth insulting, so I'm really not exactly sure what I'm going to do about it.

But I sure ain't gonna apologize for anything I've posted.

I agree. It's not a "both parties are guilty" situation at all, and every time someone says that, I want to shout "THEY STARTED IT!". It's like comparing feminists to MRA.

[Ser Charles of Rosehaven]

Ño

[Fat Mac]

:o Since when do Jaime and Catelyn fans hate each other?

Not gonna name any names, but most of the massive Jaime haters on this board happen to be Cat fans ;)

[Duke-of-Kaisa]

Hear! Hear to that! I definately agree people need to be a bit more objective when reading others opinions and posts. I have actually got so upset over how a thread I started has been consistently turned into either character or other poster bashing, and for the most part very few responses have really been considering of my op. I understand criticism can be constructive, but sometimes on this forum it seems people are just in it for a fight. I ready to ask a moderator to remove the thread now as I have seen a few people getting upset over the attacks on their statements and I actually did cry the other day over it, because of the fact that I thought this was supposed to be a fun forum for sharing ideas, and mostly the things being argued over were really far from my op. This is what I wrote this morning but things seem to have got worse since: :-(

Thanks so much to Winters Winds and dread pirate Davos for bringing this thread back on track.

I apologise that my responses to individual people may be hard to follow, I don't seem to be able to use the quote function on here, please forgive me, I am new to this forum.

I will however quote what I previously wrote (page 4) when responding to my own questions in the op.

"Thanks to everyone who has thought about my questions and posted your theories, I love reading them and gaining further insights into the characters that I may not have seen/thought about. I really feel strongly that a lot of this series is open to interpretation and who's to say what interpretation is right/wrong (except GRRM, we're all entitled to an opinion and until the next book comes out we won't get answers to many questions and even then we may not. "

Again I wrote above my assertion that this thread was not supposed to be about tearing each other's thoughts/opinions apart, more about sharing ideas in an attempt to better understand the symbology of lady's death and It's affect on Sansa.

"I loved reading GinesthoiOfIce's ideas, and am completely open minded. I am really not sure what to make of Sansa and the symbolism of Lady's death. I guess that's why I started this thread, to develop ideas..."

So from here I hope this thread can remain a safe place to post your ideas and the hostility can be kept to the minimum. Quotes referring to the text to support your theories are definately welcome!

I actually thought the definitions were really interesting, but they were a bit off topic. So apologies there as well.

I will definately be doing a re-read of the series myself as it seems my understanding is really rather stunted

Re: Sansa. Anyway, happy posting peeps!

So I hope people can calm down a bit too, sometimes it's nice to consider others, be polite even if you have a different opinion.

[Light a wight tonight]

I apologise that my responses to individual people may be hard to follow, I don't seem to be able to use the quote function on here, please forgive me, I am new to this forum.

Go to the help section, where there's a fix for the quote functionality. Has to do with your browser or some such, not something you personally can't do.

[Light a wight tonight]

Double post.

[Duke-of-Kaisa]

:-) Thankyou light a wight tonight. I actually have looked at the help forum a few times, problem is my satellite for internet is not working at the moment, so I can't go on the internet on my PC. All my internet activity at the moment is done on my iPad, and I actually don't seem to even have the little cog showing on it that the help section tells me will change my browser settings. So I need to wait until my satellite gets fixed so I can get on the PC. But thanks so much for trying to help! :-) :-) :-) I actually wish they had a like (thumbs up) function on this forum, so often I think it would be really handy!

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Great OP. I still can't see why people end up banging on about Dany so much. It's widely agreed that lots of her chapters are dull as dishwater so why do people get so worked up about them? Personally I don't feel very passionate about her one way or another.

Are they? I don't particularly like her character, but apart from in book 2, where basically nothing happened, I have found almost all of her chapters very interesting. Her last chapter in ADwD is one of my favourite in the whole series.

[Howland Reeds Weed Swamp]

People:

Calm down. And stop generalizing.

.

No.

[marsyao]

Don't ever tell other people to "calm down", usually it will have the opposite effect

[Lion Of The Night]

Don't ever tell other people to "calm down", usually it will have the opposite effect

Very true, I have learned the hard way that the quickest way to a fight is to tell my gf to calm down when she is mad about something else.... Lol

[DreamSongs]

I think Stannis' lawyer is channeling Stannis. :P

[nastydream]

...but I like Dany, Stannis AND Jon!!!

Idon'tbelieveyou.gif

[Hodor's Dragon]

Don't ever tell other people to "calm down", usually it will have the opposite effect

"Calm down" is not a request, it's a command. If somebody is angry at you, commands aren't going to make them less so.

Turn it into a question or a possible alternative action, etc., with a little re-wording, and you might get a better result.

[JoeyBanana]

I feel like anger is an incredibly discriminated and underrated emotion these days

Thank you wise master, but i prefer not to drown in the deep, bland and boring sea of calmness, heated discussions are fun

[The King in Black]

i used to be anti daenerys. fuck even i didnt realise it. i read the books , found out about the forums and joined when season 4 got me to much exicted. i debated about her , tried to impose my views on others, and i finally gave up. i realised finally that i actually didnt dislike the character herself but only certain aspects about her bothered me. but on this forum, heck any forum, there is no middle ground. you have to choose a side.

which is why im following a minimalist approach to forums now. visit as less as i can , debate only where i find it truly interesting, and not every twentieth daenerys/ jon thread in existance. that helps. trust me only handful of people wre debating about such shit over and over and over again. to them i advise to just ignore a love/hate or disguised love/hate or even a subconsious passive aggresive love/ hate thread. judging by the amount of posts you guys have you know the players from the punks

most importantly read for yourself. when i did that i stopped hating slower storylines because in the back of my mind i was angry that the others werent showing up already and started appreciating GRRM`s description of a war torn riverland in AFFC.

[the trees have eyes]

you have to choose a side.

You really don't you know. It's only certain people who drive things towards celebrity death match between characters or push extreme interpretations of characters. ASOIAF is a rich tapestry of characters and plot lines and its much more rewarding if you can enjoy all of it....and retain that perspective and balanced judgment in the middle of the flame wars that light up here every once in a while.