El Guapo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Rhaenys Targaryen was not inexperianced, and Meraxes was no young dragon. It was the second largest dragon in existance at the time, and a rider who had the experiance of the War of Conquest and the Field of Fire. Both died in Dorne because apparently GRRM loves the Dornish so much, only they have mastered the art of aiming crew-served weapons up. Dany has no clue how to control her dragon, let alone how to fight with it. She goes with him, she does not lead him. No one remembers how to train a dragon, and Tyrion's "dragon lore" is basically a bunch of old and often contradicting sources, combined with myth and fables. Her dragons are little more than adolescents. They are 2-year-olds in human years, and by the time she arrives in Westeros would still be babies compared with Meraxes. Meraxes was larger than Vhagar, and you could have ridden a horse down Vhagar's gullet. Let that one sink in for a second, and compare that with Dany's Drogon. The Yunkai have ringed Meereen with scorpions against Drogon, and Barristan dismisses it as not likely to work because many tried to bring down Aegon and his sisters, and none succeeded. He forgets Rhaenys and Meraxes in Dorne. He forgets that Dany has no idea how to control her dragon, and he is also terribly biased againt the local brown people and thier competence. Dany has control of Drogon at the end of ADWD. That was the whole point of her last chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Dany has control of Drogon at the end of ADWD. That was the whole point of her last chapter. Her last chapter, where she is led by a hungry dragon? She is trying to go back to Meereen, and Drogon keeps getting closer to Dragonstone. Her control is laughable compared with actual dragonriders, and one of the top 3 was downed in Dorne. There is no reason to think Dany can't end up the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Yes Drogon did not want to take Dany back to Meereen. But once she had her epiphany and called for Drogon he returned and then followed her commands when they flew. They then sat down and shared a nice dinner of horse together. They are completely bonded now and in TWOW she will most certainly be bringing fire and blood by dragonback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Yes Drogon did not want to take Dany back to Meereen. But once she had her epiphany and called for Drogon he returned and then followed her commands when they flew. They then sat down and shared a nice dinner of horse together. They are completely bonded now and in TWOW she will most certainly be bringing fire and blood by dragonback. Or so you think. Her bare legs tightened around the dragon’s neck. She kicked him, and Drogon threw himself into the sky. Her whip was gone, so she used her hands and feet and turned him north by east, the way the scout had gone. Drogon went willingly enough; perhaps he smelled the rider’s fear. Drogon was hungry and already on a hunt. He certainly didnot need Dany's guidance to go to his favourite hunting ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihlus Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Rhaenys Targaryen was not inexperienced, and Meraxes was no young dragon. It was the second largest dragon in existance at the time, and a rider who had the experience of the War of Conquest and the Field of Fire. Both died in Dorne because apparently GRRM loves the Dornish so much, only they have mastered the art of aiming crew-served weapons up. Dany has no clue how to control her dragon, let alone how to fight with it. She goes with him, she does not lead him. No one remembers how to train a dragon, and Tyrion's "dragon lore" is basically a bunch of old and often contradicting sources, combined with myth and fables. Her dragons are little more than adolescents. They are 2-year-olds in human years, and by the time she arrives in Westeros would still be babies compared with Meraxes. Meraxes was larger than Vhagar, and you could have ridden a horse down Vhagar's gullet. Let that one sink in for a second, and compare that with Dany's Drogon. The Yunkai have ringed Meereen with scorpions against Drogon, and Barristan dismisses it as not likely to work because many tried to bring down Aegon and his sisters, and none succeeded. He forgets Rhaenys and Meraxes in Dorne. He forgets that Dany has no idea how to control her dragon, and he is also terribly biased againt the local brown people and thier competence.:Agree:Dany's dragons (all of her forces, really) are ridiculously overrated. They're uncontrollable children, and I wouldn't be surprised if one or all of them died before they could even reach Westeros. I wouldn't be surprised if Dany can't make them go to Westeros at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Yes Drogon did not want to take Dany back to Meereen. But once she had her epiphany and called for Drogon he returned and then followed her commands when they flew. They then sat down and shared a nice dinner of horse together. They are completely bonded now and in TWOW she will most certainly be bringing fire and blood by dragonback. She called until her voice was hoarse Eventually, Drogon decided that the person hand-feeding him since he was born deserved some attention, and decided to land. Drogon went willingly enough; perhaps he smelled the rider’s fear. ... Soon one horse began to lag behind the others. The dragon descended on him, roaring, and all at once the poor beast was aflame, yet somehow he kept on running, screaming with every step, until Drogon landed on him and broke his back. Dany clutched the dragon’s neck with all her strength to keep from sliding off. Dany rides Drogon where Drogon wants to go. Drogon cares more for his kill than if Dany can stay on him. That is hardly control, and to say that it is proof that they are completely bonded is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 In ADwD her and Drogon are described "as one". They're obviously bonded now, and she is figuring out how to control him. It's only going to get stronger with every ride. The idea Dany won't be in complete control of her dragon is just wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 In ADwD her and Drogon are described "as one". They're obviously bonded now, and she is figuring out how to control him. It's only going to get stronger with every ride. The idea Dany won't be in complete control of her dragon is just wishful thinking. Who would wish that? Dany the Dragonrider is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Who would wish that? Dany the Dragonrider is awesome. People who hate Dany. There a few of those on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 People who hate Dany. There a few of those on this board. I didn't really like Dany during the off-season between seasons 3 and 4 so I can relate. However IIRC I have never hated post Daznak's Pit Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visenya Stark Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 In ADwD her and Drogon are described "as one". They're obviously bonded now, and she is figuring out how to control him. It's only going to get stronger with every ride. The idea Dany won't be in complete control of her dragon is just wishful thinking. I agree. Although Dany only has semi-control of Drogon right now, by Winds she'll have fully mastered how to control him. She needs to lead Drogon back to Meereen somehow (probably with a khalasar at her back), so GRRM can't have Drogon flying all over the place or eating Dany's people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 She called until her voice was hoarse Eventually, Drogon decided that the person hand-feeding him since he was born deserved some attention, and decided to land. I don't think the author expected us to come to that assumption. That same dragon who she hand fed also tried to roast her in the pit, her being able to call him from far away and him coming seems like a big deal to me. And it seems you are cherry picking, you deleted the rest of the quote, this is the full one: "She called until her voice was hoarse...and Drogon came" Dany starts of with Drogon wanting to kill her in the pit, to riding him however still disobeying, and then finally calling him and he responds and flying in the direction she wants to go. She hasn't fully mastered him yet but for you to dismiss him responding to her call as just giving her attention makes your post come off as someone missing relevant pieces of her story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Drogon also never shared his meal with her before, and she never bled on him like in her dream. I guess some people just hate Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visenya Stark Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Was Mel in control of Ghost, or did Bloodraven (again) take over to see what was going to be said, just like I'm guessing he did to show Jon the dragonglass catch (Ghost was weird there), and when Jon wanted Ghost to stay behind but he ran off to possibly double back/find a way close by to listen to what Stannis had to say of the Umbers, I think?I'm not sure where I read it, but it said that Melisandre used her powders to control Ghost. I tried finding it again, but I couldn't find it. Sorry!There's also a theory on Mel being Bloodraven's daughter with Shiera Seastar. If so, he might have been checking up on his daughter (and licking her).I subscribe to this theory. But I hope it wasn't Bloodraven. The last thing we need is Targaryen incest extending to parent/child. Sibling incest is bad enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I don't think the author expected us to come to that assumption. That same dragon who she hand fed also tried to roast her in the pit, her being able to call him from far away and him coming seems like a big deal to me. And it seems you are cherry picking, you deleted the rest of the quote, this is the full one: "She called until her voice was hoarse...and Drogon came" Dany starts of with Drogon wanting to kill her in the pit, to riding him however still disobeying, and then finally calling him and he responds and flying in the direction she wants to go. She hasn't fully mastered him yet but for you to dismiss him responding to her call as just giving her attention makes your post come off as someone missing relevant pieces of her story. It's a dragon. If it wanted her dead, she would be dead. I did not deny that they have a bond, only that it, and her control of the dragon, her riding skills, her dragon combat skills, his size, his power, are all at very early stages, and do not provide any reason to believe that a few good crossbowmen and high-powered scopions can't take him down with relative ease. I am not cherry picking. I responded to El Guapo's post where it could be read as Dany calls and Drogon shows right up. I brought the part of the quote that came right before that, which paints a different picture, of Drogon not coming right away. It's the exact opposite of Cherry picking. Yes, the dragon comes, after she cries her lungs out, calling his name. To take that quote as proof that the dragon listens to her, is... problematic. I have no doubt that Dany and Drogon would come closer to historic dragonriders, as aside from her dragons Dany is pointless. To have her show up in Westeros as the dragon queen who fell off her dragon because he saw a snack running in terror and paid no attention to his rider not being able to hold on, would be funny, but pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I am not cherry picking. I responded to El Guapo's post where it could be read as Dany calls and Drogon shows right up. I brought the part of the quote that came right before that, which paints a different picture, of Drogon not coming right away. It's the exact opposite of Cherry picking. Yes, the dragon comes, after she cries her lungs out, calling his name. To take that quote as proof that the dragon listens to her, is... problematic. It's not problematic, an ellipsis is used which means there was a intentional silence by the author after Dany calls him, and then he came. It makes sense he listened to her considering he lets her mount him after the call, if the call was just by chance he would have ignored any attempt of her mounting him. And I'm not looking at just this sentence and coming to my conclusion, I'm also looking at this at a thematic level before coming to my conclusion. The chapter is made in the sense that Dany starts off at distance from Drogon (her inner self) both symbolically and literally and and the distance is made short both symbolically and literally by the end of the chapter. For example she starts off eating his scraps and ends eating with him, she starts off saying Meereen is her home (Which Drogon hates) and ends saying it isn't and she starts with little control over him to him responding to her call. Drogon responding to Dany's call at that point fits within the theme of the chapter which is about her starting off not realizing who she is and then on her way to remembering who she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 People who hate Dany. There a few of those on this board. Here we go again... I subscribe to this theory. But I hope it wasn't Bloodraven. The last thing we need is Targaryen incest extending to parent/child. Sibling incest is bad enough already. Bloodraven and Shiera weren't father and daughter. They were actually half-siblings. As to the topic, I am not sure about it, but I can see her jumping to Dany ship... That means no good, to Dany especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 If Melisandre learns about Dany and her dragons she will switch her allegiance in a second. In fact I predict she will abandon Stannis for another AA candidate. Jon. And then maybe again when Dany and her dragons show up. I don't think so, she has invested too much into Stannis, and she would lose her credibility by saying she screwed up. She also has a habit of deluding herself. I think Dany will defeat Stannis by virtue of more plot armor. However, i don't think Tyrion would survive the battle, I think he would be the one to kill Stannis via Viserion roasting Stannis in his golden flames (like the golden flames of Stannis's crown), a very karmic end for Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visenya Stark Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Here we go again... Bloodraven and Shiera weren't father and daughter. They were actually half-siblings. As to the topic, I am not sure about it, but I can see her jumping to Dany ship... That means no good, to Dany especially. I was actually referring to Bloodraven and Melisandre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I was actually referring to Bloodraven and Melisandre.As far as I know, the theory about Mel being Bloodraven's daughter is not about incest between the two of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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