Lopsang Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Robb, and then Stannis. They seem like the best military commanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Daenerys is Martin's military genius character. She conquered three fortified cities in a lightning campaign, starting from almost nothing. She has had no losses. We have a more detailed view of her military planning than of any other commander, and her plans were more complex. Her victory at Yunkai was patterned after Cannae, with the double envelopment and thin line in the center.. I'm a middle-aged guy and not terribly political. Sexism is not something I am typically quick to claim. But it seems to me utterly absurd that Dany isn't even mentioned until page 3 when she has the most dramatic victories, no defeats, and the most detailed plans. Hard to peg it to anything other than people just can't take a girly girl seriously from a military perspective. Maybe if she wore dirty armor all the time and had gigantic muscles people could visualize her as the conqueror she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Daenerys is Martin's military genius character. She conquered three fortified cities in a lightning campaign, starting from almost nothing. She has had no losses. We have a more detailed view of her military planning than of any other commander, and her plans were more complex. Her victory at Yunkai was patterned after Cannae, with the double envelopment and thin line in the center.. I'm a middle-aged guy and not terribly political. Sexism is not something I am typically quick to claim. But it seems to me utterly absurd that Dany isn't even mentioned until page 3 when she has the most dramatic victories, no defeats, and the most detailed plans. Hard to peg it to anything other than people just can't take a girly girl seriously from a military perspective. Maybe if she wore dirty armor all the time and had gigantic muscles people could visualize her as the conqueror she is.It's not like Cannae at all.She seriously outnumbers the enemy, it's a surprise night attack, it depends on turncoats launching a rearguard attack and, like GRRM always does, the flank attacks aren't the result of a preordained plan to flex and take advantage of the enemy's strength, but instead one of his blind 'surprise' flank attacks, a la Blackwater and Wall and almost every battle we see. Hammer and anvil and all that, like hitting someone in the rear/flank is some kind of original strategy that just happens because someone thought of it. I've written about this at length in other threads, and in a way I don't blame Martin. Strategy in literature is almost always reduced to 'surprise' because everything else reads as boring from the planner's POV, confusing from anyone else's. So most writers bail and rely on surprise or Bernard Cornwell grit it out.Edit: no comment on Dany overall as a commander or your point re: sexism or w/e, just this point about Tbh I typed out my response immediately after reading the CannE thing, and only read the second paragraph in my quote, lol. I think someone raised Cannae about Stannis at the Wall before, and my response/indignation was pretty much the same. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Daenerys is Martin's military genius character. She conquered three fortified cities in a lightning campaign, starting from almost nothing. She has had no losses. We have a more detailed view of her military planning than of any other commander, and her plans were more complex. Her victory at Yunkai was patterned after Cannae, with the double envelopment and thin line in the center.. I'm a middle-aged guy and not terribly political. Sexism is not something I am typically quick to claim. But it seems to me utterly absurd that Dany isn't even mentioned until page 3 when she has the most dramatic victories, no defeats, and the most detailed plans. Hard to peg it to anything other than people just can't take a girly girl seriously from a military perspective. Maybe if she wore dirty armor all the time and had gigantic muscles people could visualize her as the conqueror she is. I would guess it's because she doesn't do any of the planning or fighting. Jorah was her general for the majority of the campaign. She lets her advisors who know more about war (as she aptly puts it "I'm a young girl who knows little of war") run things while she provides the face and legitimacy to the movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qrl Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I choose Stannis and Jorah Mormont. Stannis probably the most strategic and cold person in Westeros. Jorah for all his experience. And because if I promise him the hand of Dany, he will do anything for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Blackfyre Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Stannis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 If they could work together then Stannis, DaemonT, Robert and Tywin; Shock and awe compined with strategic mind, justice, inspiration and ruthlessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Robb for the battles, Tywin for the overall strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lointain Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Tywin Lannister: for the general campaign strategy. Robb Stark: for the tactical planning of battle. Robert Baratheon: for leading the army in the actual battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralKyrd Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 To me it all depends on where I would expect most of the fighting to take place, as different commanders will probably be more effective the closer they are to terrain they know. Robb for the North, Stannis for the Southeast, Tarly for the Southwest, and Davos by sea. From what we know of Davo's internal thoughts during Blackwater, he actually would have gotten all the calls right and had a very keen tactical sense of naval battle combat, especially for a smuggler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Victarion as the Admiral of the Fleet. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Qyburn Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I would choose Tywin, then put on ear plugs and go, "La la la la la" as he plans red weddings and unleashes the Mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Ned was probably a good war leader. He was never the heir but all the task fell on him and he did a good job. And given that he is the one who taught strategy to Robb and Jon, he deserves an honorable mention. Robb was the true military prodigy of the series. He faced massive disadvantages but managed to outmaneuver Tywin. Jon's defense of the Wall against Magnar and later Mance was one of the finest acts of war leadership. We should evaluate Victarion's skills after the Battle of Fire when he is finally free from the tentacles of his elder brothers and making his own plans. We should also ask whether Stannis was the only planner of the Fair Isle or were there other admirals like Paxter? JonCon became a highly capable commander during his exile. Randyll Tarly might be a disgusting person but he is a proven commander. Robert was an inspiring leader but I doubt that was his only trait without any strategy. Dany is also an inspiring leader but far from a military genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian of the Neck Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Either Edmure or Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Ned was probably a good war leader. He was never the heir but all the task fell on him and he did a good job. And given that he is the one who taught strategy to Robb and Jon, he deserves an honorable mention. Robb was the true military prodigy of the series. He faced massive disadvantages but managed to outmaneuver Tywin. Jon's defense of the Wall against Magnar and later Mance was one of the finest acts of war leadership. We should evaluate Victarion's skills after the Battle of Fire when he is finally free from the tentacles of his elder brothers and making his own plans. We should also ask whether Stannis was the only planner of the Fair Isle or were there other admirals like Paxter? JonCon became a highly capable commander during his exile. Randyll Tarly might be a disgusting person but he is a proven commander. Robert was an inspiring leader but I doubt that was his only trait without any strategy. Dany is also an inspiring leader but far from a military genius. Wasn't it Noye who came up with the defense against the Magnar and led that part of the Battle for the Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Melisandre! Who needs strategy when you have lethal slugs? I would guess it's because she doesn't do any of the planning or fighting. Jorah was her general for the majority of the campaign. She lets her advisors who know more about war (as she aptly puts it "I'm a young girl who knows little of war") run things while she provides the face and legitimacy to the movement.That's a common misconception. The strategy for taking Yunkai (which was quite detailed) was all her's, as was the idea of tricking the GM into releasing the unsullied, and using ship figureheads as a battering ram. Clearly, the "young girl who knows little of war" line is meant to be ironic, a way of disarming enemies. IMO, she's actually a far better general than she is a politician/ruler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Wasn't it Noye who came up with the defense against the Magnar and led that part of the Battle for the Wall? Noye was in command until he died but Jon was always thinking about the right strategy. For example, he thought that the best thing to do was to take the attack to Magnar instead of waiting them. He was very perceptive about their plan, checking the defenses, tells his men how to fight, what to do. Small wonder Noye left the Wall to him before he died at the Gate. About the plan, I don't think Noye himself thought about it alone. Aemon looks like the primary strategist as he was the one to suggest to make scarecrow brothers. Jon also told them exactly how the Thenns fight and what should they expect. I think the plan was designed by Aemon/Noye/Jon together. His brothers were about to piss themselves upon seeing Mance's host in the daylight but he raised their spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Robb or Jon. Both showed snippets of genius when it came to defeating (or at least holding off) enemies that greatly outnumbered them. With more maturity, of course, they both could be unstoppable./of course this would assume they lived longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I would guess it's because she doesn't do any of the planning or fighting. Jorah was her general for the majority of the campaign. She lets her advisors who know more about war (as she aptly puts it "I'm a young girl who knows little of war") run things while she provides the face and legitimacy to the movement. Daenerys does 100% of the battle planning, and it is described in detail. She doesn't even take council. She just tells them what to do. As I stated above, her planning is elaborated on a great deal more than any other commander's planning. Anybody can make a mistake, but yours was so 180 degrees off that it suggests that you are not careful about the accuracy of your posts. It doesn't serve the thread when you comment on stuff you don't know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Via warp dickery I summon Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck. Failing that, Stan the Man or Tywinius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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