Benjanun Sriduangkaew and RotyH

[Sci-2]

We too, can differentiate, we just chose not to. Which, in my opinion, is the right thing to do.

ETA: and if you're going to start condemning folks for lashing against people that don't agree with them, you better get some more stones.

I think it might be unfair to judge people whose differentiation is, well, different from yours. There are people who don't eat meat b/c of factory butchering methods, people who don't buy clothes made in sweat shops, and so on.

OTOH, one might make the argument that not buying a book is far easier than being selective about clothing & produce but I'm not sure if that's a legitimate point.

[David Selig]

I just read another of her stories, it was really good, I would probably buy her novella Scale-Bright next. Let's hope I will somehow be able to find the strength to live with myself after such a terrible act.

[Errant Bard]

OTOH, one might make the argument that not buying a book is far easier than being selective about clothing & produce but I'm not sure if that's a legitimate point.

The argument, along that line of thought, that says that if you don't do a great action, then there is no point in doing smaller good actions, has always been bullshit, though. A small good action is always better than no good action at all.

[sologdin]

DR, I'm probably structurally identical to her, too, as PB pointed out. doesn't mean that the content is the same.

[Errant Bard]

Let's hope I will somehow be able to find the strength to live with myself after such a terrible act.

Meh. Your behaviour, which is obviously not original, only reinforces the idea that any exposure is good, and promotes the same kind of assholish behaviour in future writers or other wannabe celebrities. I like the way you apprehend the world generally, but now I'm here imagining you also bought a CD of Chris Brown when he beat his girlfriend and you heard of it. Separate the artist from the work, yeah, but still buy stuff exactly when you hear of the artist doing some nasty, news-worthy action.

Meh.

[peterbound]

I just read another of her stories, it was really good, I would probably buy her novella Scale-Bright next. Let's hope I will somehow be able to find the strength to live with myself after such a terrible act.

I'm sure you'll be alright. I just pity your weakness of character.

[David Selig]

Meh. Your behaviour, which is obviously not original, only reinforces the idea that any exposure is good, and promotes the same kind of assholish behaviour in future writers or other wannabe celebrities. I like the way you apprehend the world generally, but now I'm here imagining you also bought a CD of Chris Brown when he beat his girlfriend and you heard of it. Separate the artist from the work, yeah, but still buy stuff exactly when you hear of the artist doing some nasty, news-worthy action.

Meh.

I probably would've tried her stuff pretty soon anyway, her work was in two of the "best of the year" anthologies which I slowly have been making my way through for the last few months. It just happened earlier because I got curious what ROH's fiction would be like and I wouldn't have considered buying the novella if the free stories weren't really good.

[Myshkin]

Can you clarify/source the bold?

Did she go harass someone over and over again, telling them to kill themselves? Or did she get into an internet cat-fight with someone who then decided to kill themselves?

As I understand it much of what she's done is going to be hard to prove/source since she's been aggressively culling the worst of her past internet behavior. The story I read (sorry can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure I found it through one of the links in this thread) was that after finding out that one of her targets had a history of mental illness she relentlessly PMed them with the message "you should kill yourself".

[mormont]

[mod] Folks, I already said this discussion was going to stay civil. That applies to all those participating. Leave the personal attacks out of it. [/mod]

[Eponine]

You are, and I've said this before, a much much better person than me.

I don't understand what you're seeing in my post that's different from Myshkin, David Selig, or farseer2's position. It seems like you're criticizing them for saying the same things.

[peterbound]

I don't understand what you're seeing in my post that's different from Myshkin, David Selig, or farseer2's position. It seems like you're criticizing them for saying the same things.

I honestly forgot you even posted.

Ya, I'm not on board with this one. It shocks me that you can't hold the individual accountable for her actions, and react accordingly.

You are going to support someone that is that fucking hateful? That cruel? I don't get it.

[Sci-2]

As I understand it much of what she's done is going to be hard to prove/source since she's been aggressively culling the worst of her past internet behavior. The story I read (sorry can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure I found it through one of the links in this thread) was that after finding out that one of her targets had a history of mental illness she relentlessly PMed them with the message "you should kill yourself".

I kinda doubt this one to be honest. I recall her getting into some kind of row with a person on Twitter who took issue with something Valente posted on her blog, and the person then attempting suicide due to other mental health problems.

I get the feeling a lot of people are running on urban legends, though I'm happy to accept proof I'm wrong about this one.

[peterbound]

As I understand it much of what she's done is going to be hard to prove/source since she's been aggressively culling the worst of her past internet behavior. The story I read (sorry can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure I found it through one of the links in this thread) was that after finding out that one of her targets had a history of mental illness she relentlessly PMed them with the message "you should kill yourself".

And that, in and of itself, should be enough to boycott her work.

People do some fucked up shit around here, but nothing compares to that.

Except maybe the one thing that we can't talk about. That was pretty bad.

[peterbound]

I kinda doubt this one to be honest. I recall her getting into some kind of row with a person on Twitter who took issue with something Valente posted on her blog, and the person then attempting suicide due to other mental health problems.

I get the feeling a lot of people are running on urban legends, though I'm happy to accept proof I'm wrong about this one.

I think it was in her WF days.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Can you clarify/source the bold?

Did she go harass someone over and over again, telling them to kill themselves? Or did she get into an internet cat-fight with someone who then decided to kill themselves?

From the person in question:

"Yes, it's true that Requires Hate apologised to me, two years ago. I accepted the apology and I have no particular anger with her over what happened.

At the same time, yes, she was a contributory factor in what happened with me. And that's all I'm prepared to say, for personal reasons. I'm just not comfortable talking about such things in public.

I hope that this is enough to end at least some of the speculation. Revisiting this is not pleasant."

ROH was a contributing factor, but not the only one, and that's as much as this person wants to discuss with anyone. Which, you know, I think is a reasonable request.

[Myshkin]

And that, in and of itself, should be enough to boycott her work.

People do some fucked up shit around here, but nothing compares to that.

Except maybe the one thing that we can't talk about. That was pretty bad.

It is not in my mind enough for me to boycott her work, because I don't as a rule boycott an artist's work based solely on what I think of them as a person. This is my philosophy, and I understand and appreciate where you are coming from, but it is not a mindset I adhere to. I decided long ago that I would not deprive myself of art simply because I did not like the artist. That does not in any way mean that I condone or excuse RH's actions; it means only that I think she is a talented writer. Being a shitty person and being a good writer are not mutually exclusive; RH can be, and is, both. Does being honest enough with myself and the people of this board to acknowledge that RH is a talented writer despite how awful a person she is make me disgusting? No, it does not. And if you believe otherwise then I submit that the problem here is you, not me.

[Eponine]

Ya, I'm not on board with this one. It shocks me that you can't hold the individual accountable for her actions, and react accordingly.

You are going to support someone that is that fucking hateful? That cruel? I don't get it.

We have different ideas of what constitutes support. If I were in a place to hold her accountable for her actions, I would - if I were a personal friend, or a moderator of a board where she'd harassed people, etc. However, I can support art without endorsing the life of the artist. I don't see the role of the reader to say that bad people make bad literature. Or more generally, that it's wrong to buy a product if a bad person was involved in creating it. I'm a programmer and I've known a few shitty people. Would I stop buying software because I personally knew that someone who'd written it was a bad person due to something that's ultimately unrelated to their abilities as a programmer? I'm failing to hold them responsible if I keep buying the product that keeps them making money, right? I don't blame anyone for boycotting something, but given all the the things in the world that have been created, directly or indirectly, by someone who's a total shithead in a different part of their life, it doesn't seem worthwhile to suppress good literature because we've decided that authors are the kind of stand-alone beings where we can uniquely call down personal judgment.

[Zorral]

I just read another of her stories, it was really good, I would probably buy her novella Scale-Bright next. Let's hope I will somehow be able to find the strength to live with myself after such a terrible act.

There are really reasons she was nominated for the Campbell award.

You articulated the reasons.

:)

Good writing is good writing.

So is great art great art.

Which drives crazy those who wish to employ critical apparatus for judging creative works.

I cannot, no matter how much I understand the reasons for it, ever endorse Birth of a Nation. But then, I know so much about Griffith and his coterie and the political / cultural milieu which allowed him to flourish. He is part of the apparatus of Confederate Carpetbagging that allowed for the revisionist bs of the glorious lost cause that erased slavery from the context, with the collaboration of the north as much as the south.

Not that I'm equating BS's fiction with Griffith's vile racist, historical revisionist panorama.

BS's thang is rather different, though I'd have to put in a lot of hours to articulate why, which hours I can use for articulating something else closer to my heart.

[Darth Richard II]

If people really think its OK to support someone who has done things as terrible as this peron, then, I don;t think our concepts of right and wrong are compatible. Please continue to give support and sales to someone who thinks things like rape threats and faking an entire personality in order to sell stories. Yes, I will judge you, and no, I would say the problem is with YOU. If this type of behavior is rewarded in this fashion, then this world is fucked. If people can't be held accountable for their actions any more because they are "an artist", then shit, I might as well go running naked through the childcare, and say I did it for art. God forbid there by consequences for my actions!

This will be my last post here, God willing, as I am a giant hypocrite with OCD, so who the hell knows anymore, I'm sure you'll all suck me back in somehow.

[buff daddy]

I just find the people who were on her bandwagon of denouncing authors over perceived and imagined written wrongdoings, who are now prevaricating when it comes to denouncing her when she's actually willfully harmed people through her hatefull & sadistic actions highly hypocritical.