MoIaF Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Eh, "Kings of Winter" is just a fancy title. Plus, it appears that the Blackwoods actually hail from the North too. Well, if the Blackwoods do not usually bring forth skinchangers, it could be their Stark which does the trick. Surely they intermarried with the ancient Kings of Winter while they ruled the Wolfswood, and they may have been more recent matches in light of all the daughters running around in the family tree, especially the four daughter Lord Cregan Stark had by Black Aly Blackwood. They could have married a Blackwood cousin, to give birth to the father of Melissa Blackwood (or herself). Ninja'd :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Because only the Starks seem to have some "relationship" with the winter and other than them, the First Men Culture has nothing to do with ice. That is why I think the song of ice and fire must be the product of a Stark and a Targaryen ("fire is in our blood" said Viserys). Well I agree with the last part and still think TPTPW is Jon even though Dany now has Blackwood blood. And I agree that the Starks have a relationship with Winter but the Kings of Winter does just seem to be a fancy name. I'd say that it's more likely the Starks had some sort of dealing with the Others that makes them "ice" outside of First Men blood, not the name they gave themselves. ETA: which, reading back is what I think you're saying...okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 So Breakspear's daughter in law married Daeron? Wha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Brandon Ice Eyes was not a fancy man. He defeated the slavers with nothing but the power of winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 So Breakspear's daughter in law married Daeron? Wha? Yeah, some time after Valarr died in the 209. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Widow of Coldmoat Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 How? Perhaps elaborate? I don't mean anything too significant, just the whole Dayne/Starfall/fallen star thing. Just that there might've been a hint there about who Egg's mother was that no one really had reason to notice for 16 years (although maybe people did guess at that, idk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojzelote Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Brandon Ice Eyes was not a fancy man. He defeated the slavers with nothing but the power of winter. The way I understood that was that he used to his advantage the terrible Northern winter, which the slavers did not know and were not prepared for. Similar situation could be seen with Stannis's forces in ADwD, i.e. soutron knights vs. the clans. Which is great, but I don't see how it makes any of them the rulers of winter. I think that Osha (?) was right when she said that the winter's got no king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 We don't have proof that other Blackwood are wargs but I don't think we have such proof about other Starks do we? I mean I'm sure some others were but the current Starks all being wargs including one being a greenseer would be unheard and is for plot purposes. I didn't get to the part yet but I heard that they were against a Warg King at one point so obviously during that period they wouldn't have been wargs. I believe there is another house that is a possibility. Aeron Greyjoy considers the Farwynds a queer folk, and the ones from the branch of the Lonely Light the most queer. It is said they are skinchangers and take the forms of sea animals. There has been speculation about Euron too but so far there's no proof besides some similarities with Bran/BR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Yeah, some time after Valarr died in the 209. Quelle décadence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The Valar-Kiera-Daeron thing goes back to the Blackfyre thing. The Blackfyre lineage as far we know it from the text (no family tree for them): 1. Daemon Blackfyre - Rohanne of Tyrosh [presumably the daughter of the Archon, to whom Daeron paid the dowry Aegon had brokered before his death; Aegon indulged Daemon in his fancy idea to take two wives, but, that of course, never happened, especially not with Daeron in charge.]: Aegon, Aemon, Calla, Daemon the Younger, Haegon, Aenys, sixth son, seventh son, at least one other daughter. [The marriage between Valarr and Kiera of Tyrosh must have occurred after the Redgrass Field - just as the matches between Rhaegel-Alys Arryn, and Aerys-Aelinor Penrose - most likely to convince the elite of Tyrosh to not back the claims of the Blackfyres militarily. We don't know whether Rohanne and Kiera are from the same family - the Archon office could have passed to some other guy in between 184 AC and 196/around 207-9 when Valarr was most likely married. After Valarr's death the Targaryens married his widow to another prince on a good place in the line of succession to ensure the continued good graces of the Tyroshi.] 2. Aegor 'Bittersteel' Rivers - Calla Blackfyre [Daemon's eldest daughter, most likely born between the twins and Daemon the Younger]: no known issue, but my guess is that a daughter from that union is the (great-)grandmother of Illyrio Mopatis. 3. Haegon Blackfyre - unknown wife: Daemon III, and at least one other son. 4. Aenys Blackfyre - no wife known, thus no idea whether he had any children. His descendants would have been not exactly Targaryen fans, though... 5. No wife/children known for Daemon III. 6. Another Daemon is mentioned, Maelys is his cousin and kills him brutally in Gregor-like fashion when he takes over the Golden Company. This Daemon cannot be a brother of Daemon III, but he most certainly is of an elder Blackfyre line than Maelys since he commands the Golden Company before Maelys kills him. That makes this Daemon either a son of Aenys, or the sixth son of Daemon I, I think. 7. Maelys is the last male Blackfyre from the male line. He does not have any sons - suggesting that he is unmarried (very likely anyway, due to his monstrous appearance) nor younger brothers. We should also keep in mind that not only the pretenders may have been killed during the Blackfyre Rebellions, but their sons, nephews, brothers, and uncles, too. Daemon the Younger died during the reign of Aerys I, the Third Rebellion occurred in 219 AC, and led to the death of the pretender Haegon. The Fourth killed at least Daemon III but possibly others as well. AntZ, Brandon Ice Eyes just used the fact that the Northmen are more accustomed to winter. I could do that, too, if I was a Northman and accustomed to cold temperatures. There is no hint whatsoever that Brandon somehow 'magically caused' that winter. That's just wishful thinking on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 OMG, I was hoping Bittersteel married and could possibly have descendants! TBH, I was hoping Varys was actually his descendant rather than Blackfyre, but (even though none are listed) this would seem to make it possible for him to be descended from a Blackfyre maternally and Bittersteel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 @Lord Varys, you are a wonderful human being for all these lists. . Aegor 'Bittersteel' Rivers - Calla Blackfyre [Daemon's eldest daughter, most likely born between the twins and Daemon the Younger]: no known issue, but my guess is that a daughter from that union is the (great-)grandmother of Illyrio Mopatis. nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 It appears from the number of marriages with other houses and additional Targs we are just now learning about that EVERYONE is a not-so-secret Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Quelle décadence! Meh. Pretty standard stuff to recycle in-laws back in the day. EVERYONE is a not-so-secret Targaryen. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Eight births in total (7 children are named), and two miscarriages, IIRC. Which completely explains the gap in age between Rhaegar and Viserys.. You were right. I hate you. No really... come, come... let's hug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 It appears from the number of marriages with other houses and additional Targs we are just now learning about that EVERYONE is a not-so-secret Targaryen. Targaryens... Targaryens everywhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Calla and Bittersteel married prior to the First Rebellion, by the way. I think we would have known if Bittersteel had fathered a son. He possibly would have taken over the GC - but then, he could have died during the Third or Fourth Rebellion. I'd search for Varys and Illyrio's ancestors among Bittersteel/Calla's descendants (I think Illyrio is a lost descendant of the line of Calla and Bittersteel, and Varys teamed up with him because he had uncovered the truth about his heritage, and then told Illyrio who and what he was - that's the core foundation of their partnership) or either Aenys' children - if Aenys was married, and his wife outlived, she could have fed their children - which would have then been Varys/Illyrio's parents - a lot of Targaryen hate. Maelys' cousin, the fourth Daemon, would also be a possibility. We don't know when he took over the Golden Company, but it does not seem possible that Varys was his son - that is, unless it was Maelys who sold him into slavery. I'm also inclined to believe that Haegon Blackfyre married one of his sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Targaryens... Targaryens everywhere... http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/54380150.jpg Meh. Pretty standard stuff to recycle in-laws back in the day. I know but still from Vallarr to Daeron is a long way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Impressive for House Manderly that they were on the verge of scoring a Targaryen princess as the bride of their lord, before Princess Viserra was killed in a racing accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 You were right. I hate you. No really... come, come... let's hug. :cheers: :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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