US Politics: Election Day 2014

[OnionAhaiReborn]

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_National_ConspiracyTheories_040213.pdf

Obama voters who believe "Vaccines Cause Autism"- 19%

Romney voters who believe "Vaccines Cause Autism"- 22%

Percent who believe "Vaccines Cause Autism" by ideology:

Very liberal- 12%

Somewhat liberal- 18%

Moderate- 23%

Somewhat conservative- 19%

Very conservative- 22%

Obama voters who believe "Global Warming is a Hoax"- 12%

Romney voters who believe "Global Warming is a Hoax"- 61%

Percent who believe "Global Warming is a Hoax" by ideology:

Very liberal- 14%

Somewhat liberal- 12%

Moderate- 22%

Somewhat conservative- 52%

Very conservative- 71%

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

Please name me the nutty Democrats and what specific policy positions they hold you find to be nutty.

Meanwhile:

Republicans United on Climate Change

Republican Presidential Candidates on Climate Change and Evolution

Poll reveals 48% of Republicans don't believe in evolution

The GOP has a Muslim problem

Robert F Kennedy Jr believes that Vaccines cause Autism.

Most democrats/liberals believe the Iraq war was unpaid for. While I understand the point of view, the War was in fact paid for through bonds, the same as every other war the United States has fought. One might as well as say that the Affordable Care Act, the EPA, and pretty much all of the government is not paid for, since we were running a deficit before the war and we'll be running one after.

Kucinich believed that Cheney lied about the WMD in Iraq, when all the serious studies of the issue have concluded it was an intelligence failure resulting from the overreliance on technical collection and the mismanagement of one human source.

And Sheila Jackson Lee believes that the Tea Party is the same as the KKK.

As for the links you posted, we have a New Yorker article, an NPR article, a poll, and a CNN article. Nothing have anything to do with the Republican Platform. And the NPR article has several quotes from Republicans in support of climate change. The CNN article doesn't have anything to do with the persecution of muslims, rather it talks about the Republican Party not particularly accomodating them at the conference, while nothing that many other groups were accomodated.

[DanteGabriel]

I'm not saying there's direct equivalency, but I am saying we are seeing the genesis of something that could be a bigger issue for the left in the future.

Also, you and I are on the same side here. I'm just trying to make for some lively debate.

I'd be very surprised if the anti-vaccine position became anything more than fringe.

So you acknowledge that Republicans have embraced anti-science to a degree far beyond anything the Democrats have done?

Robert F Kennedy Jr believes that Vaccines cause Autism.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has never held office. Never even run for office so far as I can tell. You do see the Jr. after his name, right? He's a dead politician's kid.

So that's your best shot? The rest of your post is enough to let me safely ignore your desperate desires to find false equivalencies. Yet another Republican in centrist's clothing.

[peterbound]

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_National_ConspiracyTheories_040213.pdf

Obama voters who believe "Vaccines Cause Autism"- 19%

Romney voters who believe "Vaccines Cause Autism"- 22%

Obama voters who believe "Global Warming is a Hoax"- 12%

Romney voters who believe "Global Warming is a Hoax"- 61%

Fuck those stats… 20% of republicans questioned believe the big O is the anti christ. For fuck's sake.

[peterbound]

I'd be very surprised if the anti-vaccine position became anything more than fringe.

So you acknowledge that Republicans have embraced anti-science to a degree far beyond anything the Democrats have done?

Have I ever said otherwise?

I will say again though, especially in the west, this will become an issue for the left in the future. As will the GMO stuff.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Fuck those stats… 20% of republicans questioned believe the big O is the anti christ. For fuck's sake.

Yup, disturbing stuff.

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

You could say that, but you would be wrong. Many of these issues are on GOP platforms at some level or another, or are just widely supported and popular within the party.

You are simply not aware of what "close-minded" actually means. Disliking the GOP for being, say, racist or anti-science is not being closeminded, it's being observant.

"Both sides are the same" is not open-minded, it's intellectually lazy because it replaces looking at actual policy positions and making informed decisions based on them with just assuming that regardless of the facts, both sides are just extremists orbiting around the "obvious" and "rational" position in the centre.

https://www.gop.com/platform/

Here is the platform. Please, show me where it is ant-evolution or anti-global warming. Or nuking the mideast or persecuting muslims.

As far as the "both sides are the same", here is an interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about the left's anti-science viewpoints:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2014/08/neil-degrasse-tyson-on-liberal-science-denial-and-gmos/

As for your dissmisal of the Republican Party as being racist, I might as well counter by saying that the Democrats hate children, since they support abortion and ban children from their convention. You're taking your subjective opinion and trying to turn it into objective fact.

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

For starters, that's not my post.

The claim that these stances are anti-women is not a factual claim about what Ernst's stances are. It's an opinion about the stances Ernst openly holds. Now, you can reject the idea that Ernst's stances on reproductive freedom are anti-women, but you don't get to claim on that basis that people are believing caricatures of Republicans. That's a completely accurate representation of Ernst's positions, plus a statement of view on what her positions represent. Sorry that you don't like the negative comment on a Republican based on that Republican's stated views, but it's not a caricature, it's not a misrepresentation.

Taking those positions and then labeling her as "anti-women" is making that her into a caricature. You really can't see that?

[1918me]

https://www.gop.com/platform/

Here is the platform. Please, show me where it is ant-evolution or anti-global warming. Or nuking the mideast or persecuting muslims.

"Many of these issues are on GOP platforms at some level or another, or are just widely supported and popular within the party."

That's what he said, right? Because linking the official list of platforms doesn't necessarily contradict that statement.

[Wee baby Shamus]

The crying has been priceless.

[Tywin Manderly]

We are past 400 posts. Discussions can be continued in the new thread below.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/120064-us-politics-the-day-after-the-political-earthquake/

[karaddin]

Hey my wife wonders if anyone thinks that having the gay marriage question pretty much settled by the courts has freed otherwise right-leaning gay Americans to vote for Republican candidates.

To this I would say 1) marriage equality is not settled, 2) marriage equality is not the end of the struggle for equality even just for homosexuals, 3) the Republican party has given up on it because of electoral realities not because they don't want to oppress homosexuals - voting for someone that would oppress me if they could seems utterly alien to me and 4) the LGBTQI alliance still has a long way to go even if full equality for the L and G components was already achieved, it would be a particularly nasty betrayal to declare victory and go home without continuing to work for what is still needed.

Well, you're right about one thing; it's naive to think that the GOP won't find some way to blame Obama during 2016, although I can't imagine that it would be terribly effective, given that he's not running.

Plus, you know, the economy didn't crash during his presidency, and we didn't plunge into one (arguably two) incredibly expensive, necessary wars, so there's that too.

Republicans could have said the same of Bush in 2006, I'd hold off on claims about the economy until it is 2016.

Hmm, that would be interesting. Most people I know that identify as conservative are pretty hip to legalizing the weed and letting whomever marry whomever they want.

Saying that though, they aren't usually constrained by religious bias. The one's I tend to socialize with.

I'm not going to question that the conservatives you associate with have the attitude you describe, but you'd have to be pretty blind or disingenuous to claim that opposition to LGBTQI rights has been a mainstay of most conservative parties for the last few decades even if that is starting to change now, and this is extremely true of the Republicans in the US. I happen to think David Cameron in the UK is spot on that marriage equality SHOULD be the conservative position, because it reinforces the strength and value of a conservative tradition - marriage.

Just a theory. Same troglodytic point of view, inability to process arguments, and fatuous claims of being a small businessman.

I'm glad you said it, because I had exactly the same conclusion once he made that "I - fantastic business owner that I am - hired two people last week, bow down and worship my job creating skills" post. It really smacked of SYM.

On another note - what happens in the unlikely event that a SCOTUS justice retires/dies in the next 2 years? The nomination has to come from the executive right? So no conservative justices are going to be put up, any chance of another Kennedy style getting through? Does the seat stay empty till after 2016? *Can* it even stay empty or does SCOTUS have to be filled faster? Can't be done through recess appointments right?

[peterbound]

Never!!

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Taking those positions and then labeling her as "anti-women" is making that her into a caricature. You really can't see that?

It absolutely is not. It's an opinion about her stances based on a perfectly accurate representation of her stances. It's characterizing her actual positions as anti-women, because her positions attack women's rights and freedom to control their own reproductive choices.

Your whole complaint appears to be reduced now to, "don't call Republicans out emphatically for positions they hold that you emphatically disagree with." Which is an utterly hollow complaint.

[Shryke]

Fuck those stats… 20% of republicans questioned believe the big O is the anti christ. For fuck's sake.

I'm impressed it's under the crazification factor.

[Wise Fool]

The crying has been priceless.

Really? I got tired of it after the first month of hearing about how Obama's a communist marxist nazi liberal socialist totalitarian fascist gay feminist trying to shove things down our throats. Certainly, after six years, it gets so tiresome that it's no surprise that people like you can't even tell you're whining anymore.

[Shryke]

https://www.gop.com/platform/

Here is the platform. Please, show me where it is ant-evolution or anti-global warming. Or nuking the mideast or persecuting muslims.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/06/05/3445339/texas-gop-2014-platform-climate-change/

As far as the "both sides are the same", here is an interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about the left's anti-science viewpoints:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2014/08/neil-degrasse-tyson-on-liberal-science-denial-and-gmos/

And here, for the 3rd time, is actual evidence instaed of anecdotal stereotype driven bullshit:

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/left-science-gmo-vaccines

As for your dissmisal of the Republican Party as being racist, I might as well counter by saying that the Democrats hate children, since they support abortion and ban children from their convention. You're taking your subjective opinion and trying to turn it into objective fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Educated yourself.

[Kalbear]

By the way, here's the actual Republican Party platform in Texas.

Protection from Extreme Environmentalists- We strongly oppose all efforts of the extreme

environmental groups that stymie legitimate business interests and private property use. We

believe the Environmental Protection Agency should be abolished.

Climate Change- While we all strive to be good stewards of the earth, “climate change” is a

political agenda which attempts to control every aspect of our lives. We urge government at all

levels to ignore any plea for money to fund global climate change or “climate justice” initiatives.

[Jaxom 1974]

Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, North Carolina, and Florida all just fairly easily elected Republicans to statewide offices. Can Clinton pull across Democratic candidates on the ticket? Absolutely. But let's not treat it as fait accompli.

And let's not forget that ticket splitting still exists; for instance, Kirk in Illinois and Toomey in Pennsylvania have worked very hard at developing moderate reputations. I doubt they have the crossover appeal of someone like Collins, but it might very well be enough to let them hold on. Of course, it very well might not; a whole bunch of moderate Republicans got wiped out in '06 and '08, but the point is, let's not start celebrating two years out.

Kirk had a long road to go before I give him my vote in 2016, regardless of who the democratic candidate is.

[Inigima]

Oh, for fuck's sake.

Barry, you'll have to forgive me, for I haven't the patience any longer to entertain the mewling of the latest "a pox on both their houses" know-nothing who fancies himself a nuanced thinker because he recognizes that the Democrats aren't all candidates for beatification. The "Democrats do it too!" defense is a charade, an embarrassing fig leaf over the nonstop pigfucking of the Republicans.

I'm no fan of the President or the Democratic Party, as you would know if you'd lurk a little before barging in here with the aggression and pinpoint accuracy of a cock and balls with a drinking problem. I think the Democrats have some impractical policy positions and I think the current administration has far overstepped its Constitutional authority. I think it is possible to make a coherent defense of some conservative positions or to have different priorities.

But. But.

Republicans campaign on and exploit homophobia and racism. Republicans oppose scientific consensus on urgent matters like climate change for which it is inconvenient for their buddies. An alarming proportion of Republican politicians seeks to codify their religious beliefs into law. Congressional Republicans played games with the full faith and credit of the United States government and several have called for secession and open, armed insurrection.

So cry me a fucking river. Go on and tell me how both parties are bad. In the meantime, I'm going to take a nap. Wake me up when you have something to offer in debate that evidences a level of political understanding beyond that of a third grader, you apologist charlatan motherfucker.