Ashara Chose Ned

[Ser Leftwich]

We even have Dany's thoughts, which tell the same story, even that she herself understands the need to mature and that she is:

She should be eager with anticipation for her wedding and the night that would follow, she knew. She remembered the night of her first wedding, when Khal Drogo had claimed her maidenhead beneath the stranger stars. She remembered how frightened she had been, and how excited. Would it be the same with Hizdahr? No. I am not the girl I was, and he is not my sun-and-stars. ADwD p .574

I must not think of Daario today.

Does it matter that Hizdahr’s kisses do not please me? Peace will please me. Am I a queen or just a woman? p. 575

And Daario Naharis is only a sellsword, not fit to buckle on the golden spurs of even a landed knight. - p. 577

This is not about all women being just attracted to bad-boys. It is about young people being naive about sexual attraction, love, and relationships, which they often (nearly always) in the books!

[Ygrain]

Also, on the fire vs mud men choice: Barristan makes this generalisation about young girls on the basis of some previous experience. Now, who might be those young girls he might have seen making such a choice? The only name he ever thinks about is Ashara - who was dishonoured, gave birth to an illegitimate child and finally ended her own life (or so Barristan thinks), just like so many young girls who had fallen for the wrong guy - a Prince Charming who had their way with them and left them to cope with the consequences on their own. And Ned is definitely NOT such a kind of guy. Plain face, shy, quiet, honourable. Even if he had slipped like Robb did, he would have sought to do the right thing immediately and face the consequences with Rickard himself, rather than let Ashara go through the dishonour when her pregnancy started to show.

[Baltasar]

Whatever it happens to be, it just increases his legend.

He (allegedly) slew Arthur Dayne in single combat, won a rebellion, put down a rebellion, was respected/feared, but most importantly loved by the people he lorded over---something few lords can profess truthfully.

Found a pack of DW pups (something that hadn't been seen for years south of the wall) and gave them to his children as effin pets.

And to cap it off: that him and one of the hottest women in Westeros banged at a huge tourney???

We know from Ned that he has lived his lies. Maybe that includes slaying Dayne and Brandon dishonoring Ashara, which Ned agreed to take the blame.

Or maybe an 18 yr old nonheir, bedded a 10, assumed lordship of an army and proceeded to own faces, argued with the king to his face about the murder of children, make the Tyrells kneel to him & the crown, slay the Sword of the Morning, and then raise a bunch of kids with a smoking hot wife---which said spawn go on to have magical powers.

Either way, Ned is pretty dope.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Or maybe an 18 yr old nonheir, bedded a 10, assumed lordship of an army and proceeded to own faces, argued with the king to his face about the murder of children, make the Tyrells kneel to him & the crown, slay the Sword of the Morning, and then raise a bunch of kids with a smoking hot wife---which said spawn go on to have magical powers.

Either way, Ned is pretty dope.

::agree::

who knows maybe this thread is just me projecting. I mean wouldn't you bang that guy???

[Ygrain]

who knows maybe this thread is just me projecting. I mean wouldn't you bang that guy???

I think it is. You probably would, but it's not the story that GRRM wrote.

[juanml82]

I think it is. You probably would, but it's not the story that GRRM wrote.

Except for sleeping with a gorgeous woman before marriage - which we don't have concrete information yet - it is the story GRRM wrote. I don't really like Ned, but if you look at his resume, he's awesome.

[Baltasar]

I think it is. You probably would, but it's not the story that GRRM wrote.

Too soon to say what story GRRM has written since it isn't finished.

Just like we can't say that this isn't the story GRRM wrote, we can't say (definitively) that Ashara chose Ned.

As far as projecting, we all have biases. There are theories on this board that many just wish to be true---cognitive biases to the maximum.

We have to remember that we are all just fans. Some are casual, hardcore, elitists, lurkers etc etc, but in the end it doesn't matter. Even Elio and Linda can't claim not to favor certain theories because of personal beliefs/favorite characters.

Some theories are more likely than others, but we have to keep in mind that truth isn't democratic.

And in a series with unreliable narrators, who the eff knows... Oh that's right: GRRM.

George can do w/e he wants. If you hope Ashara rode Ned like a bronco, cool. Way more believable than Cleganebowl. (just having a laugh, SanSan fans :p)

[Ygrain]

Except for sleeping with a gorgeous woman before marriage - which we don't have concrete information yet - it is the story GRRM wrote. I don't really like Ned, but if you look at his resume, he's awesome.

And exactly because he is awesome, he wouldn't have dishonoured a noble maiden, or at least wouldn't have dishonoured her without marrying her ASAP ex post.

Too soon to say what story GRRM has written since it isn't finished.

Just like we can't say that this isn't the story GRRM wrote, we can't say (definitively) that Ashara chose Ned.

As far as projecting, we all have biases. There are theories on this board that many just wish to be true---cognitive biases to the maximum.

We have to remember that we are all just fans. Some are casual, hardcore, elitists, lurkers etc etc, but in the end it doesn't matter. Even Elio and Linda can't claim not to favor certain theories because of personal beliefs/favorite characters.

Some theories are more likely than others, but we have to keep in mind that truth isn't democratic.

And in a series with unreliable narrators, who the eff knows... Oh that's right: GRRM.

George can do w/e he wants. If you hope Ashara rode Ned like a bronco, cool. Way more believable than Cleganebowl. (just having a laugh, SanSan fans :P)

The characterisation of Ned is a finished story, though, and gives us a clear picture what kind of man he was.

[Winterfell is Burning]

And exactly because he is awesome, he wouldn't have dishonoured a noble maiden, or at least wouldn't have dishonoured her without marrying her ASAP ex post.

He was only a teenager. And, like I said earlier, it's possible that Ned wanted to marry her, but his father either said no or told him to wait until Brandon got married. I can't imagine marrying someone without telling his family.

[Ygrain]

He was only a teenager. And, like I said earlier, it's possible that Ned wanted to marry her, but his father either said no or told him to wait until Brandon got married. I can't imagine marrying someone without telling his family.

He was eighteen - a man grown both by Westerosi and modern standards, and, more importantly, there is not a single hint in his own PoV that he did something that eventually led to the tragedy of a young woman. The Daynes don't hold a grudge against Ned, Barristan doesn't, Robert thinks that Ned's fathering a bastard was a one-time slip, Harwin thinks that the gossip of Ned and Ashara holds no water, Ned's psychological profile doesn't fit... and Ned's father with Southern ambition would refuse marriage to a KG's sister whose family was good enough to marry into the Targaryens. Could someone at least try some plausible reasoning why Ned would be the one dishonouring Ashara?

[Ser Leftwich]

He was only a teenager. And, like I said earlier, it's possible that Ned wanted to marry her, but his father either said no or told him to wait until Brandon got married. I can't imagine marrying someone without telling his family.

The new book is filled with people running off and getting married without telling their families.

[juanml82]

Could someone at least try some plausible reasoning why Ned would be the one dishonouring Ashara?

Ashara liked him, they were both a bit drunk, they were kissing and Ashara grabbed his crotch

[The Ned's Little Girl]

Ashara liked him, they were both a bit drunk, they were kissing and Ashara grabbed his crotch

Yeah, it's a nice picture but too bad it's not from the books.

[juanml82]

Yeah, it's a nice picture but too bad it's not from the books.

Of course it's not, because this thread is about filling in the blanks GRRM intentionally left in the books.

Besides, Ned might not have known Ashara was left pregnant or he could have counted on marrying her (until Brandon asked Rhaegar to come out and die, that's it)

[Ygrain]

Ashara liked him, they were both a bit drunk, they were kissing and Ashara grabbed his crotch

Nice piece of fanfic, and now please something actually based on the text.

Of course it's not, because this thread is about filling in the blanks GRRM intentionally left in the books.

Besides, Ned might not have known Ashara was left pregnant or he could have counted on marrying her (until Brandon asked Rhaegar to come out and die, that's it)

The fillers must be consistent with the rest of the text, though.

There was a year between the tourney and Brandon's wedding, and there is no way Ned wouldn't have tried to find out if Ashara was pregnant or not, and once he did, nothing would have stopped him from sparing both her and the child the dishonour. The guy who knocked her up was one who 1) couldn't marry her because he was already engaged, 2) didn't care, 3) both. None of the options fits Ned.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Mmmm... aren't we assuming too much here?

"The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf . . . but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench".

We're assuming that, "on his behalf" means that he asked Brandon to asked her to dance with her because he was too shy, which is quite a chance.

But, it also could mean that Ned was so shy to leave his bench and Brandon noticed that, so, he asked Ashara, who was familiar with him, to dance with his unaware brother.

[Ygrain]

Mmmm... aren't we assuming too much here?

"The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf . . . but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench".

We're assuming that, "on his behalf" means that he asked Brandon to asked her to dance with her because he was too shy, which is quite a chance.

But, it also could mean that Ned was so shy to leave his bench and Brandon noticed that, so, he asked Ashara, who was familiar with him, to dance with his unaware brother.

That's a valid point.

[Ser Leftwich]

I can think of three scenarios:

1) Brandon asked Ashara, after Ned asked Brandon to. (This could go two ways, one, Brandon was being nice to Ned, or two, Brandon was trying to look like a nice guy to Ashara, to get in her pants/dress.)

2) Ashara asked Brandon to arrange a dance with Ned.

3) Brandon asked Ashara, without Ned having asked Brandon to. (This could go two ways, one, Brandon was being nice to Ned, or two, Brandon was trying to look like a nice guy to Ashara, to get in her pants/dress.)

[The Twinslayer]

4. Rickard told Brandon to lay the groundwork for a Ned/Ashara match.

It worked. Ned and Ashara had an understanding that they would marry after Brandon and Lyanna had their weddings.

Rebellion breaks out. Ashara is at Harrenhal with the Whents when Ned marches south. Ned swings by after the Battle of the Bells, anguished at the death of his childhood friend, Denys Arryn, in the battle, has a tryst with Ashara. Unbeknownst to him, she gets pregnant. She makes her way back to Starfall.

Ned gets to Riverrun. Hoster, Jon and Robert basically make him marry Cat. He complains: I never asked for this. It was all for Brandon. Cat, Winterfell, everything. But he does his duty.

At the end of the war, he goes to Starfall to to return Dawn and break the news of his marriage. Gets there, Ashara says "good new, we have a son." Ned says, "bad news, I have a wife." She jumps from the Tower, Ned sends the baby to Winterfell with Wylla.

Ned swings through King's Landing on the way home. Reconciles with Robert over Lyanna's death. Robert says "I heard you have a bastard. Who is the rare wench who made you forget your honor?" Ned is ashamed, does not want Robert making jokes about Ashara: "No one important, just a servant from Starfall named Wylla."

Gets home, Cat is furious. "If I ever find that woman I will kill her." Uh oh. "I'm not telling you who it is, just that it isn't the poor wet nurse, Wylla." Now I have to live this lie for the rest of my life.

15 years later, Ned tells Robb: "my only regret is that I didn't marry the woman I loved when I had the chance. Don't let that happen to you."

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

POOR BRANDON

I jilted lover says the Brandon wasn't afraid to take what he wants and now he is believed to be banging every woman in the Seven Kingdoms . Brandon might bang the unmarried daughter of his banner men but he would behave in the lands of his betroth banner men . And if Brandon was a player he wouldn't stab his brother in the back like that .

Let take Ashara Dayne a beautiful woman not betrothed . At the dance she is seen dancing with a knight of the King's guard , Oberyn Martell ,and knight of Griffins most of these guys are either older men or in JonCon case an alleged homosexual , the only guy who is interested in this hottie with a smoking little body is Eddard Stark .

TRUE STORY ; A young lady left her husband for a young man who resembled junior genie Baboo who told her she was the prettiest woman he ever seen .