Boarders writing a Novel Part 12.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Thank you, all. NB Starkess is a great CP. :). I'm now trying to focus on all the things I'll have to do in the next few months, which is interesting when drafting two other books at the same time...

Def getting it, I enjoyed the beta you sent, and what I read of Rough Diamond. Congrats.

[Jerol]

So this just happened. I am still partially in denial!

Wow. Kudos and congratulations.

[Magnar of Skagos]

When I write secondary characters, I try to fashion out a life for them beyond the main story. Who are they? What do they want? Why are they in a position to interact with the main characters. It doesn't have to be needlessly complex, but if you understand your secondary characters, you can write them more realistically. Know who they are and why they're involved.

You don't have to put all of that on the page, or even any of it, but having an idea of where your characters are coming from will help you write them. Maybe you can drop a hint about who they are in their dialogue, or in their description.

Yeah, I just really am having a hard time implementing them into the story. I think thats whats giving me the most trouble right now. I'll just have to keep fiddling with it until it turns out how I like it. Thanks for the advice though, I'll have to make sure that I flesh them all out ;)

[henderson]

So this just happened. I am still partially in denial!

A great opportunity.

Congratulations, Eloisa.

[henderson]

So this just happened. I am still partially in denial!

A great opportunity!

Congratulations, Eloisa.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

I have a rape question about rape in fiction. Would appreciate opinions on what I have planned for my two characters. This is sort of like a character outline of what happens to them.

Two sisters; one older the other younger. Elder sister is in line to inherit a rather wealthy merchant company that is expanding into being a bank, and because of this she has to have a more serious face on things. The younger sister is a lot more playful and carefree. She is also more social in her adventures. Because of this the eldest sees the youngest as frivolous and they do not get along.

During a journey between cities their carriage is attacked by bandits, The younger sister is raped while the eldest sister escapes from the bandits. To make matters worse, the younger sister was able to see her sister hiding in the woods not three feet from a sword. When she returns to the campsite after losing her pursuers, her sister is gone, kidnapped, fate unknown. Elder sister comes across a group of soldiers in the woods and they help her look for the sister but don't find her. Years pass and the eldest sister has continued on with her life. To cut a long story short, she finally meets her sister again, but the sister is bitter and angry and has rather murderous tendencies toward her sister. Turns out that after spending most of her life being abused the younger girl seduced a local crimelord and then united all the gangs under her power by slaughtering their leaders, and has been targeting a human trafficking ring within the city by killing vulnerable women and then pointing all the clues at the people involved in the trafficking.

Does it sound bad? Should I avoid this aspect of the story?

[The Marquis de Leech]

I think you should really steer clear of the subject unless you are willing to sit down and think out all the psychological consequences of it. If you are willing to do that, fine, but for goodness sake, don't simply put it in for shock value.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

Yeah, that's what I am worried about. I know that seventeen years should be enough to come to terms with such a trauma, but not if most of those years are spent suffering similar abuse. Then, when you meet your sister who could've helped you but didn't, then that would obviously bring back those horrid memories I believe. Some days I think that the story could survive without it. Sibling rivalry because the eldest is jealous because the younger has more freedom and less responsibility, the youngest is jealous because the elder sister is seemingly favoured by her father because she's the oldest. This among other factors could easily be the cause of the fracture that takes up most of the sister's plot arcs.

Other days I think I'm stuck with it because it's been a plotline I've had in my head regarding this story for years. Sometimes it is hard to change certain parts of the story when the story and character positions change.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

Hmm. Those are good points.

1) Bandits rob the two girls and try to take advantage of them...but thinking on this point is 'the rape is there because they're female.' Why does it have to be rape? Why are bandits going to automatically be rapists?

2) Not gratuitous. Just a quick mention from the witnessing sister before she flees.

3) Would add to the conflict between the sisters, but the whole jealously rivalry thing could work without the rape. The rape incident is what causes the eldest sister to meet one of the main POV characters. This could be worked out in a different manner.

4) Could be considered not realistic as we don't see the raped sister for seventeen years afterwards. It might impact on the whole jealousy thing with the younger being even more angry with the elder sister. But even still, it could run the risk of not being realistic because of the fact we don't really see the effects.

5) I would say realistic for opportunistic bandits to attack two girls travelling together on the road to rob them, but could run the risk of 'why are all bandits rapists and women travelling alone always victims.'

These points have made be lean toward avoid. Thank you.

[First of My Name]

I too could use advice on something.

In the book I'm working on, the first third of the story is divided between happenings in the capital city and the journey undertaken by a small group of mercenaries and their captive (who's on of the two main characters), who they need to transport to the capital. Most of this is setting up dominoes that will be toppled later on, and getting to know the characters. My problem lies with the mercenaries - they're a pretty varied bunch IMHO, but there's one character who is there solely for plot reasons: the daughter of the leader of the mercenaries. She's there because her relationship with the captive is an important foundation of the book, but the girl is 18 and doesn't know how to use a weapon, why the fuck would she come along?

In my first draft the answer is that she's always wanted to come along with her father, and that the transport of the prisoner was supposed to be just that, nothing more. As you may have guessed this is a pretty weak reason. And she doesn't do that much during the journey except getting to know the people with her, and realizing that she's not ready for this world.

Some solutions are:

-Make her into a fighter, so that she has a purpose to being there, and it makes sense that the father would bring her. 'However, this would render most of her intended character arc void. It also makes her less interesting because there's not much contrast with the other woman in the group.

-Make her stay at home. I'm not a fan of this because this would mean that she has to be introduced much later, and leaves her unable to meet the prisoner. I think I'd be able to make it work but I'd rather not do this.

Anybody have a different idea? Which of the solutions is best? Thanks in advance.

[SpaceChampion]

Maybe her father is bringing her along to marry her off in the capital? Maybe even to someone powerful to whom her father owe a debt, and his daughter is the payment?

[Bluetiger]

I too could use advice on something.

In the book I'm working on, the first third of the story is divided between happenings in the capital city and the journey undertaken by a small group of mercenaries and their captive (who's on of the two main characters), who they need to transport to the capital. Most of this is setting up dominoes that will be toppled later on, and getting to know the characters. My problem lies with the mercenaries - they're a pretty varied bunch IMHO, but there's one character who is there solely for plot reasons: the daughter of the leader of the mercenaries. She's there because her relationship with the captive is an important foundation of the book, but the girl is 18 and doesn't know how to use a weapon, why the fuck would she come along?

In my first draft the answer is that she's always wanted to come along with her father, and that the transport of the prisoner was supposed to be just that, nothing more. As you may have guessed this is a pretty weak reason. And she doesn't do that much during the journey except getting to know the people with her, and realizing that she's not ready for this world.

Some solutions are:

-Make her into a fighter, so that she has a purpose to being there, and it makes sense that the father would bring her. 'However, this would render most of her intended character arc void. It also makes her less interesting because there's not much contrast with the other woman in the group.

-Make her stay at home. I'm not a fan of this because this would mean that she has to be introduced much later, and leaves her unable to meet the prisoner. I think I'd be able to make it work but I'd rather not do this.

Anybody have a different idea? Which of the solutions is best? Thanks in advance.

She doesn't have to be a good fighter. Maybe she is only a begginer and father took her on routine mission to teach her something?

[Zoë Sumra]

Option 3: she has a job for the mercenaries that doesn't involve fighting. She's their accountant, or scout, or something.

Option 4: she has an appointment in the capital city - some business of her own: New job, higher education, collecting a shipment of something from a foreign country, meeting a powerful potential mentor, funeral of the sister of a maiden aunt who might just leave her a fortune if she plays her cards right - and travels with them for safety reasons.

The possibilities are many and varied according to what else she is other than the mercenary chief's daughter.

[First of My Name]

Option 3: she has a job for the mercenaries that doesn't involve fighting. She's their accountant, or scout, or something.

Option 4: she has an appointment in the capital city - some business of her own: New job, higher education, collecting a shipment of something from a foreign country, meeting a powerful potential mentor, funeral of the sister of a maiden aunt who might just leave her a fortune if she plays her cards right - and travels with them for safety reasons.

The possibilities are many and varied according to what else she is other than the mercenary chief's daughter.

Option 3's a good one, I'll consider that.

Option 4 doesn't really work because she lives in the capital, it's where their journey starts, they pick up the captive somewhere else and bring him back. But I could incorporate elements from it into whatever her role ends up being.

Thanks :)

[Myrddin]

Option 3's a good one, I'll consider that.

Option 4 doesn't really work because she lives in the capital, it's where their journey starts, they pick up the captive somewhere else and bring him back. But I could incorporate elements from it into whatever her role ends up being.

Thanks :)

Combine options 3 and 4. She's the company's (insert occupation) and needed to travel to the same city where the captive was to pick up (insert Macguffin that may or may not factor into the story later). Her trip may have been the reason her father took the job. He was going to escort his daughter there anyway, might as well make a quick payday.

If she's a catalyst in the story, make her drive things as much as possible.

ETA: Maybe the father isn't ready for his daughter to grow up and uses the contract as an excuse to accompany her. Think about how their dynamic can create drama in all of this too.

[First of My Name]

It would help to know a bit about her personality.

She has a strong dislike for weakness but discover she isn't all that strong herself during the journey. (At one point they are captured and interrogated, she 'bravely' faces torture and cracks within five minutes). This results in some self-loathing. Her worldview is very much about strength - it's one of the reasons she's so drawn to the captive, who is very dominant (he's only a few years older than her, there's attraction there). She becomes dedicated to becoming strong, but it's a slow process (which is sped up when they lose some members of the group). She doesn't really know what she want, other than become strong and stop being insecure, weak, exc.

Besides that, her personality can be adjusted to better fit the role she ends up having.

Combine options 3 and 4. She's the company's (insert occupation) and needed to travel to the same city where the captive was to pick up (insert Macguffin that may or may not factor into the story later). Her trip may have been the reason her father took the job. He was going to escort his daughter there anyway, might as well make a quick payday.

If she's a catalyst in the story, make her drive things as much as possible.

ETA: Maybe the father isn't ready for his daughter to grow up and uses the contract as an excuse to accompany her. Think about how their dynamic can create drama in all of this too.

That's not a bad idea at all. There's a problem though, the captive is pretty much the only living person in that area, there's nothing there for her.

I do think I'll give her an occupation though, it's a logical solution. Thanks.

She's not really a catalyst at this point, the stuff that drives it all mostly happens in the capital.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

She could either be there because the father doesn't trust anyone to look after her except himself.

She could be there so she can't see her lover?

She could be there because he's taking her to see her mother.

[HexMachina]

Her father anticipates that she will one day lead his mercenary group herself and despite his misgivings he brings her along because she must learn the ins and outs of leading them. Despite her initial arrogance she soon realises she hasn't got a clue what she is doing. After she breaks under torture she is left shaken but tries to keep a brave face on things to show she is tough She slowly lets the mask slip and begins to form relationships with the others as they open up to her and tell her about themselves, leading her to understand herself better and realise that there is no shame in her cracking under torture.

Or something like that, maybe?

[First of My Name]

She could either be there because the father doesn't trust anyone to look after her except himself.

She could be there so she can't see her lover?

She could be there because he's taking her to see her mother.

Maybe she's traveling with them because she has to avoid her own home for some reason, like she's on the run or something.

Her father anticipates that she will one day lead his mercenary group herself and despite his misgivings he brings her along because she must learn the ins and outs of leading them. Despite her initial arrogance she soon realises she hasn't got a clue what she is doing. After she breaks under torture she is left shaken but tries to keep a brave face on things to show she is tough She slowly lets the mask slip and begins to form relationships with the others as they open up to her and tell her about themselves, leading her to understand herself better and realise that there is no shame in her cracking under torture.

Or something like that, maybe?

Thanks for all the tips, this makes me realize that there really is a ton I have't considered. I'll definitely use some of these.

[Dany's Golden Fleece]

Hey guys I am writing a fantasy novel at the moment, and I am stuck with giving a learned class a name (like maesters in ASOIAF). Any ideas where I could start?