Arnt Dannys dragons to small for WAR ?

[Mal Malenkirk]

Yes they are. And Drogon had a 20 foot wingspan in the pits, not 30 feet.

That is barely twice the wingspan of an Albatross.

But he has a much bigger body than that. Between you and me, Dragons fly because of magic.

In terms of physics, I bet an aeronautic major could prove that no animal with the mass required to break the back of a horse can fly on a 20 feet wingspan!

And for that matter that it was impossible for Balerion to get airborn without rockets!

Dragons have levitation powers that they choose to exert only on themselves and they keep wings as an aesthetic choice.

;)

I try not to think too much about it because this world adhere more closely to the laws of physics than most fantasy universe, making the dragons particularly egregious offenders.

[Salafi Stannis]

They're growing.

Plus Daenerys rode Drogo. That can't be that small.

IIRC, his wing span was 30' in the fighting pit. That's not near as large as some of the dragons of the past but they are still growing.

Plus 3 medium size dragons are still 3 more dragons than the other side has.

I was under the impression that he rode her, and that he was quite large.

[Salafi Stannis]

Double post.

[PatrickStormborn]

Drogon's wingspan was 20 feet in Daznak's Pit, and Dany notes that he's continued to grow since they left Meereen.

I've had a look around the SSM collection and found this:

I was talking with george and the dude from FFG [Fantasy Flight Games] who does the card game, and George asked the FFG guy how he was going to balance the power of the families (Stark, Lannister, Greyjoy, etc) once the dragons are full grown. He said something like "once dany lands in westeros with full grown dragons, they are gonna kickass all over the place" (paraphrasing - it was something more like "they will be tougher than anything we've seen since Aegon the Conquorer.")

(SSM: August 28, 2003)

It's hard to infer much from that, but it sounds to me like the size of Dany's dragons isn't really going to be a problem. Interestingly these comments were made after he had decided to scrap the five-year gap.

Essentially, I think the size of the dragons will be less of a problem going forward than the ages of the Stark children. I'd imagine that all the characters - including the dragons - are still going to do what they would have done after the five year gap.

But, of course, there are differences even between the dragons. I am sure it will be relevant to the plot going forward that Drogon is stronger and larger than his siblings.

As an aside, I found an interesting report in the SSM about the sex of the dragons:

Something weird: I THINK he indicated that the dragons are NOT all the same sex. My question was intercepted, but I believe that was the answer.

(SSM: August 28, 2003)

Obviously this isn't the most reliable source of information... But it's definitely interesting.

[Mladen]

snip

Well, I am with you... I mean, GRRM will make the dragons as fierce as he wants them to be even if it is borderline illogical. Same will go for Sansa, Arya, Bran's development. We even have Tyrion surviving battle after battle, so these things were always a bit stretched.

[kimim]

Drogon's wingspan was 20 feet in Daznak's Pit, and Dany notes that he's continued to grow since they left Meereen.

I've had a look around the SSM collection and found this:

(SSM: August 28, 2003)

It's hard to infer much from that, but it sounds to me like the size of Dany's dragons isn't really going to be a problem. Interestingly these comments were made after he had decided to scrap the five-year gap.

Essentially, I think the size of the dragons will be less of a problem going forward than the ages of the Stark children. I'd imagine that all the characters - including the dragons - are still going to do what they would have done after the five year gap.

But, of course, there are differences even between the dragons. I am sure it will be relevant to the plot going forward that Drogon is stronger and larger than his siblings.

As an aside, I found an interesting report in the SSM about the sex of the dragons:

(SSM: August 28, 2003)

Obviously this isn't the most reliable source of information... But it's definitely interesting.

2003 is before he discarded the five year gap, though, isn't it? lol idk, but yes, GRRM is God, and Dany is his violet-eyed girl. They'll be big enough to kick ass.

[Mithras]

Only Drogon is worth riding. The other two are thrash :P

[DireWolfSpirit]

OK, so Dany's dragons aren't as gigantuous as Aegon's.

Still, consider Dany riding Drogon and Drogon landing a firebolt on Kings Landing's

huge stockpile of wildfire?

I'd say a direct hit like that , could be "game over" for an entire army of ground forces.

[Gertrude]

Someone mentioned it upthread, but if you use them wisely, they will be a major advantage. The dragons obviously keep growing throughout their lifetime, but I imagine at some point they reach 'adult' size and grow more slowly from there. Not knowing the life-cycle of a dragon, GRRM can fudge that as he wants. Right now I'd call them juvenile, closer to adulthood than maybe we think.

No, they aren't going to be a fiery dread swooping from the sky to bring death to armies. They can scout and move and use hit and run tactics much more safely. Burn supply trains and fields ahead of the enemy. Not to mention the symbolism. Living dragons, no matter the size, will be a fantastic rallying point for the old Targ loyalists. The support her dragons will bring is more important that the actual dragons in terms of power.

Something is going to spur her to action. She has been waiting so far for one reason or another - one of those is definitely giving her dragons a chance to grow. However, if she hears about Aegon, if her time in the Dothraki Sea has given her perspective - whatever it is, the story will propel her along to action.

[Lord Sapna]

They were born in 1998. I think they should be big enough now.

[Chacho_88]

someone couple posts before me just said what i was thinking the entire time, yes they are too small for way but they have other uses that can make them just as effective,

first is that people will rally to whoever has the dragons, so they will help in the way by getting her more soldiers and knights and lords,

there hasn't been dragons in the world for about 100 years so they don't have the tools and weapons to fight dragons at the moment or people who know how to, as opposed to before when dragons were around so ppl knew more about them,

they can fly around and scout and destroy baggers and harass small parties without being affected at all,

so yea they are too small for war in the sense of being used for fighting, they can not be in the thick of the fighting without taking some damage,which would be foolish since their are only 3 lefts, you just use them to lead the men and swoop around in the air and maybe when you see a certain part of your army faltering or getting ready to retreat, you swoop in to reinforce them a little and then back out

[midi]

While I generally agree with you, there might be some element of surprise. Although given that Citadel is aware of dragons, that Aegon and co. know about them too, even that element isn't certain. TPATQ showed us that killing dragon is far from impossible, actually quite possible. I suppose that dragons will live until GRRM decides otherwise.

It was almost always another dragon that killed a dragon. Dragon-on-dragon violence if you will. It's not impossible for men to kill a dragon, but it's near impossible to kill a large one that is not chained. Remember that the dragons that died during the Storming of the Dragonpit were chained up, earthbound (dome blocks them from flying) and not nearly as large as some of the other dragons. And even that claimed the lives of countless of people. In fact it was one of the greatest massacres ever in Westeros if the "thousands died that night" is to be believed.

Now... if it was Vhagar that was in the dragonpit that night...

[Chacho_88]

and to the person who said that magic has to be making the dragons fly because physics wouldn't make sense...... really man, like do you know what you are reading? a fantasy book, and you say that GRRM books, although fantasy, are somewhat accurate to physics so this means that everything has to be accurate? their is magic, talking trees, people coming back to life, DRAGONS, people who live in the far north who don't wear any kind of foot protection, Giants. but yea, the physics of it just doesn't make sense.....

[Mladen]

It was almost always another dragon that killed a dragon. Dragon-on-dragon violence if you will. It's not impossible for men to kill a dragon, but it's near impossible to kill a large one that is not chained. Remember that the dragons that died during the Storming of the Dragonpit were chained up, earthbound (dome blocks them from flying) and not nearly as large as some of the other dragons. And even that claimed the lives of countless of people.

Countless? IIRC, not even a full squad was sent. All in all, even in TPATQ we have entire line of grown-up dragons, and Dany's are babies having the estimated life of a dragon. But, all of that is practically unimportant. They will live until GRRM says otherwise.

[Chacho_88]

It was almost always another dragon that killed a dragon. Dragon-on-dragon violence if you will. It's not impossible for men to kill a dragon, but it's near impossible to kill a large one that is not chained. Remember that the dragons that died during the Storming of the Dragonpit were chained up, earthbound (dome blocks them from flying) and not nearly as large as some of the other dragons. And even that claimed the lives of countless of people.

yea for sure, for a man to kill a dragon is almost impossible, those dragons as you said were chained up, and the others that were killed i think were taking by surprise, but to take a dragon down in a battle while it is loose and flying, well good luck, you need another dragon to bring them down, again, unless they are chained or tricked or you have an archer who can control the arrows mid flight

[PatrickStormborn]

2003 is before he discarded the five year gap, though, isn't it? lol idk, but yes, GRRM is God, and Dany is his violet-eyed girl. They'll be big enough to kick ass.

No, I think by that point he had decided to write A Feast for Crows.

They're certainly never going to reach Balerion's size (unless they eat some serious wights... but I don't know how possible that would be). But Aegon and his sisters pretty much relied solely on their dragons, whilst Dany will presumably have quite a powerful army and substantial resources, assuming she conquers the Dothraki and plunders/ransoms cities on her journey to Westeros.

[TallTyrion]

The dragons will be as big as they need to be for the story. The loss of the 5 year gap throws it off a bit but a simple line can explain away rapid growth i.e. you can just have Tyrion say something about Dragons growing the most in their first 5 years alive.

True dragons grow all their life, but they won't be growing at the same rate they are now that whole time. So them reaching a "mature" size in a small number of years won't be unreasonable.

There's also the propaganda value of dragons. Sure we as readers know they aren't Balerion but the levies, knights, and minor lords you need to cnovince to take the field against them won't know that.

[kimim]

No, I think by that point he had decided to write A Feast for Crows.

They're certainly never going to reach Balerion's size (unless they eat some serious wights... but I don't know how possible that would be). But Aegon and his sisters pretty much relied solely on their dragons, whilst Dany will presumably have quite a powerful army and substantial resources, assuming she conquers the Dothraki and plunders/ransoms cities on her journey to Westeros.

ita, and Westeros is in dire trouble, anyway, so I don't think that Dany will need super-sized dragons or armies to take it. Its economy is in shambles, the common folk are looking at famine, its ruler is incompetent, its lords are at the brink of war, or at war in some cases.

[Beanis Buttershield]

Hmm, decent point. When Aegon came to Westeros.. most were actually ready and willing to fight the good fight, even though they had heard rumors of dragons.

The thing is, once they actually saw the dragons with their own eyes, they shat their breeches, forgot everything they knew about "pride" and "honor", and fully submitted in order to preserve themselves(with a few exceptions). Torrhen Stark was ready to fight the good fight even if it meant sacrificing himself for his people--but a fight against Aegon would've simply meant extinction. It wasn't even an option to fight Aegon.

Although Dany's dragons aren't adult, they are still terrifying to everyone except those in the heart of Dorne. My favorite quote about dragons comes from one of Tyrion's chapters:

“Once a man has seen a dragon in flight, let him stay home and tend his garden in content, someone had written once, for this wide world has no greater wonder." Tyrion scratched at his scar and tried to recall the author's name.”

Or in other words, if the people of Westeros see dragons flying overhead, they don't give a flying **** who is king as long as they are spared from a fiery death.

[Nictarion]

Only Drogon is worth riding. The other two are thrash :P

Not very nice to call the dragons Jon will have to settle for trash. 😛