Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Oh Goody..... Another one of these hate threads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 It wasn't just emotion. Cat also has a terrible amount of pride. One of Robbs biggest mistakes was taking up a crown. It made negotiations more difficult with Renly and Stannis and it made it more difficult for Robb to bend the knee once the War turned against him. Cat could see this but she never questioned Robbs crowning, she did get gratification out of him being a king, she expresses this many times. Don't get me wrong shes a good Mom and I don't doubt she would rather have a live Robb than a dead King but I do think her pride did blind her at times.For real? What was she supposed to do? It wasn't her idea to make him a king and there was absolutely nothing anyone could have done to change that once Robb accepted (and arguably, he couldn't refuse). It also hardly affected his negotiations and position at all - it would have in the future but not yet. It didn't make a difference with the Lannisters, and he sent Cat to Renly (and would have likely reqched an agreement if it wasn't for the shadowbaby). Stannis didn't have any troops and then lost the ones he had at Blackwater. Balon would still have attacked the North. Doran won't stir unless for a Targ. It made no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 It wasn't just emotion. Cat also has a terrible amount of pride. One of Robbs biggest mistakes was taking up a crown. It made negotiations more difficult with Renly and Stannis and it made it more difficult for Robb to bend the knee once the War turned against him. Cat could see this but she never questioned Robbs crowning, she did get gratification out of him being a king, she expresses this many times. Don't get me wrong shes a good Mom and I don't doubt she would rather have a live Robb than a dead King but I do think her pride did blind her at times. This whole post is ripe with mistakes. She did not want Robb to become a king and could not have done anything once he did. She makes in clear right before his coronation that she'd rather have him alive and well than a war leader. She is not to blame at all for his "mistake" of taking up a crown. She even suggests to him later that he would not be the first King in the North to kneel to the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 At moments of extreme stress and emotional intensity, Cat makes unwise decisions. These decisions sometimes have bad consequences but she's routinely blamed for bad choices Robb makes, many of them against her advice, or for events that were out of her control. This thread, like all such Catelyn Threads since the dawn of time when the world was young and free people lived in plenty and innocence, is full of such cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Because until the moments she was seen she was not forced to make a decision, and as such, letting Tyrion slip by unseen was for the best. But when he saw her, the situation bacame much more serious, as he could take word of her travels south, to the other Lannisters. Right. But how is this an emotional reaction instead of a logical decision (right or wrong does not matter here) based on specific circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu101 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Cat made ONE mistake in the heat of the moment due to her anxiety and distress. And tbh it dishy make a difference; Tywin had planned Robb's downfall long before she freed Jaime. It's ridiculous she's getting so much hate when male characters (who constantly think with their dick) are either romanticised (Rhaegar) or whitewashed (Robb) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 It's ridiculous she's getting so much hate when male characters (who constantly think with their dick) are either romanticised (Rhaegar) or whitewashed (Robb) Most of the main male characters in this series are overly emotional irrational fools. Time to overcome my laziness and start a new thread explaining it in detail. It should be a fun thread. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 All decisions are based on emotion, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'll give her a pass for freeing Jamie, but not arresting Tyrion. Her evidence was veeeeeeery circumstantial and plus Ned gave her orders to follow when she returned to the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Goat Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Right. But how is this an emotional reaction instead of a logical decision (right or wrong does not matter here) based on specific circumstances? Because the reason she decides to take Tyrion is not because she has thought it through logically and objectively and come to the conclusion that it is the best course of action. It's because she sees a chance to get justice for her son, and decides to take the opportinity. It's a spur of the moment thing, based on her love and desires. I'm not saying her actually decision was actually the wrong one to make, I'm saying that her decision making was emotionally based. Being a coldly objective individual myself, I have hard time accepting emotional reasoning as a good basis for decision-making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Because the reason she decides to take Tyrion is not because she has thought it through logically and objectively and come to the conclusion that it is the best course of action. It's because she sees a chance to get justice for her son, and decides to take the opportinity. It's a spur of the moment thing, based on her love and desires. I'm not saying her actually decision was actually the wrong one to make, I'm saying that her decision making was emotionally based. Being a coldly objective individual myself, I have hard time accepting emotional reasoning as a good basis for decision-making. Then I'll be the one to point out that you probably don't like any of the decisions taken in the book series, and possibly in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 ^Not true, we cold calculators love Lord Manderly, and respect the intelligence of LF and Varys, tho in the case of LF I argue he has had insane plot necessary luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Because the reason she decides to take Tyrion is not because she has thought it through logically and objectively and come to the conclusion that it is the best course of action. It's because she sees a chance to get justice for her son, and decides to take the opportinity. It's a spur of the moment thing, based on her love and desires. I'm not saying her actually decision was actually the wrong one to make, I'm saying that her decision making was emotionally based. Being a coldly objective individual myself, I have hard time accepting emotional reasoning as a good basis for decision-making. Sorry, it doesn't make sense. If it was an emotional thing, to get justice no matter what, it would have been the same the moment before Tyrion recognized her. If it was an emotional decision it would be taken the moment she saw him. It's her POV and it's clear, no room for interpretation; she hoped to remain unnoticed, this failed so it was arrest and hope... or let him go and hope... You yourself acknowledged the danger of the situation. It was not well thought out because there was no time for it - but the thing is, she was staying on plan A and only when it was blown she improvised plan B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 ^Not true, we cold calculators love Lord Manderly,The guy who cares only about vengeance? He doesn't seem rational at all to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The guy who cares only about vengeance? He doesn't seem rational at all to me. What could possibly be irrational about baking your foes into pies then feeding them to their own relatives? "Revenge is a dish best served cold"? You ever had a cold meat pie? It sucks. Serve it toasty warm, possibly with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGBeyondAsshai Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I can see that she was incredibly intelligent and could have ruled Riverrun better than any of her siblings. She had a decent political mind and she really took Tully words seriously. Also, totally understood her freeing Jaime for the chance to get her daughters back. From my very first read through ASOIAF though, I had a hard time with her POV (and not just because of her unchanging loathing of Jon). Her lack of action concerning the two young boys, one cripple, left behind at Winterfell with nearly all fighting men gone to war with her eldest son always bugged me...she had several chances to return to them before she thought they were dead and she chose not to. I get there was a lot going on, but I can't help it. It bugged me. And letting her daughters go to Kings Landing after her sister warned her about the plot... It's in hindsight that I see how necessary her "emotional decisions" and "mistakes" were to pushing the story forward though. In a way, despite my small issues with her, Cat is the catalyst. :) If she hadn't pushed Ned to go be the Hand and let Sansa be matched with Joff, well that started everything.If she hadn't hated Jon with the fire of a thousand suns he might not have been so eager to head to the Wall.If she hadn't left her boys they may not have ended up on the road to Skagos and Bloodraven respectively.If she hadn't made that deal with Frey there wouldn't have been a Red Wedding...or I'll grant you, a Frey crossing to begin with.If she hadn't taken Tyrion, he would have never befriended Bronn and the hill people (that's really the only good that came out of that)If she hadn't freed Jaime into Brienne's care, we would not have one of my favorite storylines in the series. (gotta love a redemption road trip) Pre-series if she hadn't practiced kissing Little Finger he might not have begun his life long quest for world domination (okay, that's a stretch) So, I suppose, emotional or no...Catelyn's decisions were extremely important. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 So, I suppose, emotional or no...Catelyn's decisions were extremely important. :) Hers is the song of ice and fire :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGBeyondAsshai Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Hers is the song of ice and fire :) What happens to ice when it meets fire? Water. The river is made of water. It all makes sense now lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Hers is the song of ice and fire :)When certain Jon fans say to me that he would have never taken black if there wasn't for her, I feel like we should all be grateful because she might have saved Planetos. Take that, Cat haters :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGBeyondAsshai Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 When certain Jon fans say to me that he would have never taken black if there wasn't for her, I feel like we should all be grateful because she might have saved Planetos. :) very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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