Relic Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Does anyone have a link to a post or an article that discusses Kellhus' philosophy, The Darkness that Comes before, and the Self Moving Soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Kellhus had been a boy of eleven the first time he heard this phrase. He’d been summoned from his training to a small shrine on the first terrace, where he was to meet Kessriga Jeükal. Even though Kellhus had already spent years minimizing his passions, the prospect of meeting Jeükal frightened him: he was one of the Pragma, the senior brethren of the Dünyain, and meetings between such men and young boys usually resulted in anguish for the latter. The anguish of trial and revelation. Sunlight fell in shafts between the shrine’s pillars, making the stone pleasantly warm beneath his small feet. Outside, under the ramparts of the first terrace, the poplars were combed by the mountain wind. Kellhus lingered in the light, feeling the bland warmth of the sun soak his gown and bare scalp. “You have drunk your fill, as they directed you?” the Pragma asked. He was an old man, his face as empty of expression as the architecture of the shrine was devoid of flourish. One might have thought he stared at a stone rather than a boy, so blank was his expression. “Yes, Pragma.” “The Logos is without beginning or end, young Kellhus. Do you understand this?” The instruction had begun. “No, Pragma,” Kellhus replied. Though he still suffered fear and hope, he had long before overcome his compulsion to misrepresent the extent of his knowledge. A child had little choice when his teachers could see through faces. “Thousands of years ago, when the Dünyain first found—” “After the ancient wars?” Kellhus eagerly interrupted. “When we were still refugees?” The Pragma struck him, fiercely enough to send him rolling across the hard stone. Kellhus scrambled back to position and wiped the blood from his nose. But he felt little fear and even less regret. The blow was a lesson, nothing more. Among the Dünyain, everything was a lesson. ThePragma regarded him with utter dispassion. “Interruption is weakness, young Kellhus. It arises from the passions and not from the intellect. From the darkness that comes before.” “I understand, Pragma.” The cold eyes peered through him and saw this was true. “When the Dünyain first found Ishual in these mountains, they knew only one principle of the Logos. What was that principle, young Kellhus?” “That which comes before determines that which comes after.” The Pragma nodded. “Two thousand years have passed, young Kellhus, and we still hold that principle true. Does that mean the principle of before and after, of cause and effect, has grown old?” “No, Pragma.” “And why is that? Do men not grow old and die? Do not even mountains age and crumble with time?” “Yes, Pragma.” “Then how can this principle not be old?” “Because,” Kellhus answered, struggling to snuff a flare of pride, “the principle of before and after is nowhere to be found within the circuit of before and after. It is the ground of what is ‘young’ and what is ‘old,’ and so cannot itself be young or old.” “Yes. The Logos is without beginning or end. And yet Man, young Kellhus, does possess a beginning and end—like all beasts. Why is Man distinct from other beasts?” “Because like beasts, Man stands within the circuit of before and after, and yet he apprehends the Logos. He possesses intellect.” “Indeed. And why, Kellhus, do the Dünyain breed for intellect? Why do we so assiduously train young children such as you in the ways of thought, limb, and face?” “Because of the Quandary of Man.” “And what is the Quandary of Man?” A bee had droned into the shrine, and now it etched drowsy, random circles beneath the vaults. “That he is a beast, that his appetites arise from the darkness of his soul, that his world assails him with arbitrary circumstance, and yet he apprehends the Logos.” “Precisely. And what is the solution to the Quandary of Man?” “To be utterly free of bestial appetite. To utterly command the unfolding of circumstance. To be the perfect instrument of Logos and so attain the Absolute.” “Yes, young Kellhus. And are you a perfect instrument of Logos?” “No, Pragma.” “And why is that?” “Because I am afflicted by passions. I am my thoughts, but the sources of my thoughts exceed me. I do not own myself, because the darkness comes before me.” “Indeed it does, child. What is the name we give to the dark sources of thought?” “Legion. We call them the legion.” The Pragma raised a palsied hand, as though to mark a crucial waystation in their pilgrimage. “Yes. You are about to embark, young Kellhus, on the most difficult stage of your Conditioning: the mastery of the legion within. Only by doing this will you be able to survive the Labyrinth.” “This will answer the question of the Thousand Thousand Halls?” “No. But it will enable you to ask properly.” Will try to find more. By the way, liked your Annapurna Circuit rundown, that's on my life-list. But do you really think they need to know about the Dunyain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Will try to find more. By the way, liked your Annapurna Circuit rundown, that's on my life-list. But do you really think they need to know about the Dunyain? Thanks man, that's a good start. Im trying to explain Kellhus to someone, but it's been too long since i re-read the books, and find myself struggling with the explanation a little bit. I SOOOO recommend the Annapurna Circuit. It is, to this day, one of the greatest experiences of my life. If you have any questions, or need some help planning, do not hesitate to ask. I might be of some help =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 relic, just have them read atlas shrugged, but with some greek terms thrown in randomly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 relic, just have them read atlas shrugged, but with some greek terms thrown in randomly. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Im trying to explain Kellhus to someone, but it's been too long since i re-read the books, and find myself struggling with the explanation a little bit. Why not tell them to read this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Why not tell them to read this thread? i'd never inflict that sort of misery on anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 These threads have been the great joy of my life. Perhaps not unlike the Annapurna circuit for you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 These threads have been the great joy of my life. Perhaps not unlike the Annapurna circuit for you :) hahah, she's a gentle soul, i don't think all the black sperm, rape aliens, and some of the snark here would do her good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I still want to know wtf was going on when Achamian hangs 3rd person camera style over the burning library of Sauglish and sees Skafra bsod for a bit.Well, I'm not 100% certain on this, but that is when Akka first realizes that when he's dreaming he's no longer dreaming as Seswatha. I always took it as "Hey, start paying attention again Akka, your getting special treatment here.". It was something so outta the ordinary and made him realize he is truly a " prophet of the past". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 This thread is mad. The trial has broken you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I don’t think so. The Consult spent a thousand years killing people and trapping their souls inside the Carapace. The Choric script on the Carapace makes it a kind of barrier that prevents souls from returning to the Outside upon death. I'm pretty sure the Scylvendi's god is dead - that's their main grudge with...everyone. And that the consult resurected that god. That's, IIRC about what they did, why the Scylvendi sided with the no god. I'm pretty sure there are references to it - but without the search powers of kindle, I am weak. I don't know what the golden chamber does. It could just fill in the gaps of a dead god, for example, with souls. Fill in the holes in the corpse. Weve seen a doorway in one of Akkas dreams that was made of souls, for example. It’s like how Yatwer was created when all the Non-women died,Wait, what? That's just the speculation in this series of threads, isn't it? It's not confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt b Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Thanks man, that's a good start. Im trying to explain Kellhus to someone, but it's been too long since i re-read the books, and find myself struggling with the explanation a little bit. If they've read Dune, I usually describe him as a "Kwisatz Haderach Ninja Jesus." If they haven't read Dune, I say the same thing but nobody has any idea what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Off topic“The Logos is without beginning or end, young Kellhus. Do you understand this?” The instruction had begun. “No, Pragma,” Kellhus replied. Though he still suffered fear and hope, he had long before overcome his compulsion to misrepresent the extent of his knowledge. *** ThePragma regarded him with utter dispassion. “Interruption is weakness, young Kellhus. It arises from the passions and not from the intellect. From the darkness that comes before.” “I understand, Pragma.” The cold eyes peered through him and saw this was true.Just noticed - is this bit taking the piss out of the pragma? See how the Pragma's idea is for Kellhus to say he doesn't understand? And yet to pretty much the same question, of whether he understands, the Pragma wants to hear a yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm pretty sure the Scylvendi's god is dead - that's their main grudge with...everyone. And that the consult resurected that god. The Scylvendi worshiped the No-God, then the No-God was killed by humans, hence ‘Dead God’. As for why they worshiped him, it probably had something to do with the fact that they believe “the world is a lie.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 This thread is mad. The trial has broken you. Say what you will about the snark or whatever, but this is one of very few threads where something major was discovered - namely, Eärwa being God’s genitals. Or maybe it’s Bakker’s genitals? That might explain why some critics claim that the Second Apocalypse is like Bakker masturbating on page or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 ^ kid's got jokes ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Say what you will about the snark or whatever, but this is one of very few threads where something major was discovered - namely, Eärwa being God’s genitals. Or maybe it’s Bakker’s genitals? That might explain why some critics claim that the Second Apocalypse is like Bakker masturbating on page or something.right. black semen = ink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Brings a whole new understanding of what a nonman's elju is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Brings a whole new understanding of what a nonman's elju is Hey now, the color of cunuroi cum has not been established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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