Larry of the Lawn Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 You know that makes a lot of sense. It is a bit perplexing he left Momemn the way he'd did. Esement to rule, while his half Dûnyain brother is in the city also, with the ability to keep things under control. It confuses both Maithenet and Esement, and I believe Kellhus "probably" new a power struggle between the two of them. Therefore, leaving the vulnerable to Fanayal, and the destruction of The Thousand Temple and the decline of Inrithi along with it. I really like your take on it. The unknown there for me is if Kellhus is aware of Kelmomas and his abilities, or more accurately to what extent is Kellhus aware... it seems unlikely that he'd be ignorant of him, but Kelmomas did take both Inrilatas and Maithanet by surprise. I really do wonder how much Kellhus anticipated his youngest son stirring the shit pot. I think Kellhus definitely anticipated Esme and Maithanet bumping heads for a bit, but it seems like without Kelmomas and the WLW as wildcards, that they would have been able to rule jointly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Brilliant, sjb! Makes more sense than my crackpot!The unknown there for me is if Kellhus is aware of Kelmomas and his abilities, or more accurately to what extent is Kellhus aware... it seems unlikely that he'd be ignorant of him, but Kelmomas did take both Inrilatas and Maithanet by surprise. I really do wonder how much Kellhus anticipated his youngest son stirring the shit pot. I think Kellhus definitely anticipated Esme and Maithanet bumping heads for a bit, but it seems like without Kelmomas and the WLW as wildcards, that they would have been able to rule jointly.Totally aware, kellhus has super hearing. He heard cnaiurs and the skin spies heartbeats while chatting with moenghus while they were still far away. I think he heard kelmo skulking outside his and esmis bedchamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 The unknown there for me is if Kellhus is aware of Kelmomas and his abilities, or more accurately to what extent is Kellhus aware... it seems unlikely that he'd be ignorant of him, but Kelmomas did take both Inrilatas and Maithanet by surprise. I really do wonder how much Kellhus anticipated his youngest son stirring the shit pot. I think Kellhus definitely anticipated Esme and Maithanet bumping heads for a bit, but it seems like without Kelmomas and the WLW as wildcards, that they would have been able to rule jointly.Larry, I don't know if you seen where I made a lil prediction before, but I have a feeling that Kelmommas will kill the WLW. Like maybe when the WLW is getting ready to assassinate Esmi, Kelmommas will be watching in the secret passage ways and skewer the WLW. Just crackpot. But, his love for his mom, and the secret passageways being integral to Kelmommas and his plots, there is a real chance that might happen. Its feasible in my mind at least......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think Kellhus is letting Fanayal wreck everything so the great ordeal has nothing to go back to. So they will go and do some really horrible thing he's got in mind, rather than balk at it and go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think Kellhus is letting Fanayal wreck everything so the great ordeal has nothing to go back to. So they will go and do some really horrible thing he's got in mind, rather than balk at it and go home.Yea, there is obviously a reason, since, ya know, its Kellhus we're talking about here. Doesnt mean Kelmommas can't shank the WLW though. Man, has anyone heard anything about, maybe, a tentative release date for TUC? I'm ready, been ready. Or maybe we could conspire to kidnap Madness and tortue him til we get some answers,Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Good stuff Sci! Wish you posted more often. Thanks - I wish had time to post more often myself! Though it is interesting that the paper suggest topoi are conceptions of space devoid of spirituality while in Earwa the exact opposite is true.... Could we, based on the assumption that Bakker have borrowed the meaning of concepts from the ancient Greek setting, perhaps arrive at a hypothesis that Topos in Bakker-world are the places where inside and outside are close to the effect that it affects physical reality and chorae are points where inside and outside are more philosophicaly/morally connected (with drastic negative effects for those doing sorcery)? This sounds sorta right to me. But what's odd is that topoi are in fact all about context on Earwa - they result from the past suffering being so profound that it dents reality. The moral conext is, if anything, what affects physical reality. One possible way to look at it is that topoi are the objective moral context overpowering any local frame. Chorae instead protect a person's local frame, their sense of Self, which I suppose includes their clothing but not their horses. :cool4: This also makes me wonder if Chorae really support the frame of the objective world over that of the mage trying to impose himself on the onta. It's more like a universal Aporetic counterspell rather than an anti-magic shell. (What happens to magic items touched by chorae? Do we know?) IF a mage could hold a chorae - one of Kellhus' goals IMO - perhaps the Tear of God would support a kind of limited godhood where the very frame around them was twisted? From False Sun we know Titirga "seized things that should not be seized", apparently due to his childhood blindness. Was Titirga seizing the Frame, rather than simply battering the shape of the onta? The Psukhe leaves no mark, but do Chorae keep the onta from aquiring the Mark? If I use the Dragon Head on the field of battle, would the places where people held Chorae be clean to the sight of the Few? Seems like there should be a link between Aporetics and the Psukhe? Or is this a Minimization of Mysteries Fallacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Hey Sci, I always took the Titirga "grasping things that shouldn't be grasped" as a reference to the Psukhe. He was supposedly found canting blind on the streets. Interesting they use the word Grasping - when wee know it becomes significant for Seswatha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Hey Sci, I always took the Titirga "grasping things that shouldn't be grasped" as a reference to the Psukhe. He was supposedly found canting blind on the streets. Interesting they use the word Grasping - when wee know it becomes significant for Seswatha. I agree it relates to the Psukhe, but what is it about the Psukhe that shouldn't be grasped. Note that the sorcerers who exist post-Fane never speak of the Psukhe in that same sense of wrongness - if anything the Psukhe is more "right" - metaphysically and morally - because it doesn't leave a Mark. The idea that Titirga's sorcery was more "wrong" to me suggests something like Hell, where a chorae cannot destroy a Wight in the way it can destroy the incarnate body of a Ciphrang because the Wight carries its Hell-Frame with it as it moves. I think the idea of Frames relates to both the Psukhe and the Aporos. There is no reason I can think of that the Aporors shouldn't leave a Mark. Then again I don't think Mimara's dagger leaves a Mark either? And we know chorae seem like voids in the onta and thus aren't exactly like the Psukhe. It's possible there's no valuable connection between the paradox of the chorae and the recollection of the Whole that the Psukhe entails....then again Mimara did seem to spy the God when she looked into a chorae with the JE. Well with what Solo and Sci have posted, I guess its evident chorae and topois are related in some manner. That being said, Sci theory on Earwa ultimately being disenchanted seems to make the most sense to me. And, it beats the hell outta Earwa being computer simulated program. Man, if that's the case, I'll have damn breakdown. Amusingly enough I found this paper while looking for more info on Chora vs Topoi: Kairotopos: A reflection on Greek space/time concepts as design implications in Minecraft What's interesting is here the author practically reverses the conception of Chora & Topoi: ....A farm, in the abstract se nse, is chora, but that farm is not just chora but topos. We can point at that farm and say a few things about what differentiate s it from the rest of the world....Chora is an abstract conception of a world/region where something exists. Topos is a more precise and relative conception of a location/region where something exists, i.e. a sp ecific region defined by what it “contains”. This seems to be more akin to how Bakker uses the terms, with Chorae holding the objective world in place while Topoi are a result of subjective experiences lived in a place. The paper also mentions Chronos - time as clock time, abstraction - vs Kairos - time as experienced. Another concept of space - Kenon aka Void - mentioned. Kairos also has relation to battle, and could recall the Battle Celebrant: While discussing kairos, there is an additional imp ortant connotation from the Greeks that should also be introduced. In the original Iliad, kairos is used to signify the struggle when fighting with an enemy, with more of an emphasis on the fragility and defense of one’s own body. (Sipiora et al 2002) In this connotation , kairos seems to emphasize the moment of a critical hit, the ability to know exact ly when to thrust the spear to win the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I thought that the "grasping things that should not be grasped" from False Sun could have been a reference to the Daimos rather than the Psukhe, but who knows. I am near total madness due to the lack of updates on The Unholy Consult. Where is it? We wants it. I'm not even counting on ever getting Winds, nor am I counting on getting any Second Apocalypse books after TUC, so this is like the last big anticipation of a fantasy book that I expect in this lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think we will get Winds and The Unholy Consult, but nothing after that in either series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 There's still a good chance for TSTSNBN, supposing that Bakker breaks into mainstream sales with TUC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think we will get Winds and The Unholy Consult, but nothing after that in either series. You cheer me not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 There's still a good chance for TSTSNBN, supposing that Bakker breaks into mainstream sales with TUC. While possible, I think expecting a breakout success in book 6 of a fantasy series (particularly one as difficult to get into as Bakker) is very wishful thinking. Even if book 6 is amazing, people will still need to enjoy book 1 to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Consider the fact that AE took ten years to publish entirely (between TTT in 2006 and TUC in 2016), even if he’s going to write s3, with everything he’s been saying about getting a day job how long would it take him to write another trilogy? 15-20 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Lol - At this rate, I'll be 40 and he'll be dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 a reference to the Daimos rather than the Psukhe, but who knows.just as an incidental, after finishing on the name, picked up D's gift of death, which has a consideration of both daimos and psukhe. so will need to have to subject RSB to the protocols of reading therein also. but that's like three nerd-projects down the road from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolivar Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It feels like TUC is definitely happening but the fact that he hasn't published anything in years concerns me. From what I understand, he's had several completed projects sitting on the shelf for a while now. It makes me wonder if he burned any bridges just being himself or if Disciple of the Dog really was that bad. I know another writer recently went back on their promise to write a forward for him.I looked it up and saw that whole misogyny fiasco came after Disciple. Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It feels like TUC is definitely happening but the fact that he hasn't published anything in years concerns me. From what I understand, he's had several completed projects sitting on the shelf for a while now. It makes me wonder if he burned any bridges just being himself or if Disciple of the Dog really was that bad. I know another writer recently went back on their promise to write a forward for him.I looked it up and saw that whole misogyny fiasco came after Disciple. Damn. He's been working on his philosophy PhD, and judging by the amount of writing on his blog (not stuff I'm particularly interested in) it has to be in the hundreds of thousands of words by now. That seems to be the main focus. And isn't TUC like 350k first draft? That's the size of TJE and WLW together. The final series will written because Bakker is interested/invested in the series as his literary legacy; financial independence is basically a pipe dream unless he devotes some time in producing more accessible, possibly stand-alone content from SA archives. GRRM doesn't really give off the impression of being devoted to that sort of legacy (or is, but is too sidetracked by conventions and football and pizza crawls), and I'm glad HBO will be giving us at least some sort of ending for those of us almost two decades in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 What did the Wracu say after the Anagogic witch’s blowjob? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 IS NOT DRAGON EJACULATE INFINITE? ETAOH WAIT, I MEAN IT'S GOTTA BE SOMETHING ABOUT DRAGON HEAD?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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